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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am a relatively simple system. 60" Pioneer Elite Signature 141 plasma monitor. Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver. Panasonic BD60 BD player. And soon a HD digital cable box. Might add a PS3 & X360. That's about it HT wise.


And a SVS PC13 Ultra sub. Which is located too far from the bulk of my gear (above mentioned) to share the same surge protector. So I might need a 2nd simple one. Just for the sub. The sub is almost 21 feet away (if you measure along the walls..where the wall meets the floor).


But will add as well a modem/router for internet and BD-Live.


What surge protectors would you recommend to more than adequately protect my investments? I know Panamax is good. I"m just not familiar with the important specs.


Thanks.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD888 /forum/post/17017124


I am a relatively simple system. 60" Pioneer Elite Signature 141 plasma monitor. Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver. Panasonic BD60 BD player. And soon a HD digital cable box. Might add a PS3 & X360. That's about it HT wise.


And a SVS PC13 Ultra sub. Which is located too far from the bulk of my gear (above mentioned) to share the same surge protector. So I might need a 2nd simple one. Just for the sub. The sub is almost 21 feet away (if you measure along the walls..where the wall meets the floor).


But will add as well a modem/router for internet and BD-Live.


What surge protectors would you recommend to more than adequately protect my investments? I know Panamax is good. I"m just not familiar with the important specs.


Thanks.

Install a (whole house) unit at your main panel and then a strip at your AV gear location for the best protection.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
AV Doogie,


Any specific recommendations? How much would a "whole home surge protector" run me?


I also read on one of the forums here that surge protectors are a "myth". That they actually won't stop power surges. Only the "tiny ones". So I'm also now debating if I should bother. Will it even help? I don't know now.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD888 /forum/post/17022736


AV Doogie,


Any specific recommendations? How much would a "whole home surge protector" run me?


I also read on one of the forums here that surge protectors are a "myth". That they actually won't stop power surges. Only the "tiny ones". So I'm also now debating if I should bother. Will it even help? I don't know now.

Surge suppression is not a myth....


Unfortunately, many folks who do not understand the underlying principles and application of suppression equipment are the ones who are the loudest opponents.


A surge suppressor, like any other product designed and built by 'mankind', has limitations. It is up to you to decide what kind of expense and potential damage to equipment you are willing to accept.


Surge suppression, properly sized and installed, will provide protection from everyday overvoltage conditions which are a normal part of the power system. They will also provide protection from most lightning events except for some direct strikes....which are not common.


I recommend IT products which are now owned by Eaton corporation. If you need additional help finding recommendations let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
AV Doogie,


Can you give specific recommendations? For both whole home and power bar type. Not sure I want to go to the expense of a whole home system. Then again I have no idea how much they cost. What is the brand to buy..etc.


Would a Panamax not suffice?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD888 /forum/post/17028576


AV Doogie,


Can you give specific recommendations? For both whole home and power bar type. Not sure I want to go to the expense of a whole home system. Then again I have no idea how much they cost. What is the brand to buy..etc.


Would a Panamax not suffice?

I use an IT XT40 unit for whole house protection. This is a higher end unit typically about 400 bucks.


IT also has other units which provide good suppression like the CHSPULTRA or CHSPMAX





* 2,880 Joules (total) or 2,400 Joules

* 180,000 Amps (maximum surge current) or 150,000 Amps

* 90,000 Amps per phase (L-N & L-G) or 75,000 Amps per phase

* 400 V UL 1449 2nd ddition clamping voltage (maximum surge current)

*
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper1lt /forum/post/17081318


I am pretty happy with the APC AV H15BLK.



It is probably overkill for your needs, but I like when it raises power when my central AC kicks in.

I assume you are indicating that the unit regulates the voltage level. You will know if you are happy with the unit when it takes a hit from a decent surge, if the unit still works and you have saved your equipment downstream.


I would still install a unit at the main panel to protect yourself. You don't want to sacrifice this nice looking voltage regulator in the event of a large surge....do you?
 

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AV Doogie,


The H15 has the following:


Surge Protection and Filtering Surge energy rating 5270 Joules

EMI/RFI Noise rejection (100 kHz to 10 MHz) 50 dB

Peak Current Normal Mode 80 (/PH) kAmps

Peak Current Common Mode 160 kAmps

Data Line Protection RJ-11 2-Way Modem/Fax/DSL splitter with protection (four wire dual lines),Co-axial Video / Cable protection,Coaxial 2-Way splitter with protection

Let Through Voltage Rating

Standard Warranty 5 year repair or replace

Equipment protection policy

Lifetime : $750000


I do need to add a whole house suppressor soon at the panel as you said. We don't get a lot of lightning storms, but it only takes one hit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How much do whole home suppressors cost? And what are some good brands to look for?


Update (Sept 2nd). AV Doogie. Sorry. Didn't see your RE to my post.
$400.00. Not too bad. Thought it would be a few grand. Relief.
 

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I just (Sept. 28, 2009) ordered an APC H10 AV H Type Power Regulator - 1000VA, 120V for $99.99 from TigerDirect. Shipping was $18.87. Not quite as good as the H15, but should meet my needs. It's not black, but the price was quite good. I'll hide it in the back behind the stand or something!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper1lt /forum/post/17107378


AV Doogie,


The H15 has the following:


Surge Protection and Filtering Surge energy rating 5270 Joules

EMI/RFI Noise rejection (100 kHz to 10 MHz) 50 dB

Peak Current Normal Mode 80 (/PH) kAmps

Peak Current Common Mode 160 kAmps

Data Line Protection RJ-11 2-Way Modem/Fax/DSL splitter with protection (four wire dual lines),Co-axial Video / Cable protection,Coaxial 2-Way splitter with protection

Let Through Voltage Rating

Standard Warranty 5 year repair or replace

Equipment protection policy

Lifetime : $750000


I do need to add a whole house suppressor soon at the panel as you said. We don't get a lot of lightning storms, but it only takes one hit.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...031&CatId=4715


I don't see ampere rating anywhere on this link to tigerdirect.com From the website it looks like a Voltage regulator AVR/TVSS and not a significant help in Current Surge suppression.


APC H10 Features


* Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR)

Automatically steps up low voltage and steps down high voltage to levels that are suitable for your equipment.

* Surge Protection

The H10 Power Conditioner provides a high level of surge protection for the voltage going into the unit, thus protecting the devices connected to the unit. Additionally, surge protected coax/radio frequency (RF) connectors are protected against surges traveling over coaxial lines to protect your digital satellite system (DSS), CATV box, or cable modem. Similarly, the telephone line surge protection feature provides a protected splitter to allow output to a telephone, modem, Digital Subscriber Line (DSL) modem, fax, digital video recorder (DVR), DSS system, set-top internet service provider (such as WebTV), or pay-per-view cable TV function.

* Isolated Noise Filter Banks (INFB)

The H10 also provides INFB technology to eliminate electromagnetic and radio frequency interference that can negatively impact sound and video quality.

* IEEE let-through rating and UL 1449 compliance - The 'Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers' (IEEE) Let-Through Voltage rating is based on a test that subjects a Surge Protector to a 6,000 volt spike. The rating equates to the amount of excess voltage that reaches connected equipment. The lower the number, the better the performance of the Surge Protector is. Underwriter's Laboratory's UL1449 surge protection safety standard uses these ratings to help users gauge performance. UL's best Transient Voltage Surge Suppressor (TVSS) Let-Through Voltage rating is "300V".

* Lightning and Surge Protection - To prevent damage to your equipment from power surges and spikes.


Viper1lt mentioned Peak Current Common Mode 160 kAmps rating.


Am I missing something here?
 

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So here's a question: If the coax line(s) from a satellite dish are grounded at a grounding block where they come in the house, why would you ever need a surge protector with coax line protection? If lightning struck the satellite dish, the surge would travel down the line, hit the grounding block, then that would be the end of it, right?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UteBrian /forum/post/17403636


So here's a question: If the coax line(s) from a satellite dish are grounded at a grounding block where they come in the house, why would you ever need a surge protector with coax line protection? If lightning struck the satellite dish, the surge would travel down the line, hit the grounding block, then that would be the end of it, right?

Correct. But only if your earthing is sufficient. A ground block and protector do the same thing. Both are only as effective as the earth ground.


A most common source of a direct lightning strike is AC mains - wires highest on the utility pole. Lightning strikes those wires down the street. Incoming on AC electric. Destructively through your electronics. Then to earth via the coax. Every incoming wire in every cable must also connect to that same earthing electrode - either directly (coax) or via a 'whole house' protector (telephone, AC electric). Any wire not properly earthed before entering the building can use other protected wires to harm appliances.


Cable companies recommend not using plug-in protectors (such as the Panamax) on their cable. It only degrades the signal. Since it does not have that all so critical short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth, the plug-in protector does nothing effective.


To protect from surges, a plug-in protector must somehow block or absorb the surge. To do that means it must block or absorb radio signals. So either it does nothing effective, or it degrades signals, or it does a little of both.


Superior protection means upgrading single point earth ground. Expanding the system. Removing wire defects such as sharp wire bends, wire too long, separating that ground wire from other non-grounding wires, etc.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm /forum/post/17409257


The reason you need surge protection on the coax is because the grounding block only grounds the shield. There is still the center conductor to deal with.

To have a surge inside the cable means a surge must exist on the shield. In most cases, surge eliminated on the shield means no surge inside. Or according to a professional who describes it better: Richard Harrison in "Lightning Arrester" on 12 Dec 2003 in the newsgroup rec.radio.amateur.antenna:

> Coax, inside, rejects common-mode propagation of lightning energy.

> Coax, outside, needs good grounding to make a good path around

> (bypass for) protected equipment.


If you need protection for that inside conductor, you need a protector actually designed to provide that protection. And again, that protector must be connected short ('less than 10 feet') to earth. See Polyphaser for such protectors. And notice the price for these properly designed protectors for 'industrial strength' protection.


Plug-in protector that claims coax protection is even not recommended by cable companies. It only degrades a cable signal. It too far from earth ground to earth the typically destructive surge. And what an IEEE brochure even demonstrates; too close to the appliance to even earth a surge destructively through that TV.


Numerous reasons why a homeowner needs no protector on the center conductor and why such protectors do more harm than good. Reason one from Richard Harrison is more that sufficient to explain why sufficient protection is provided when the ground block is properly earthed. Properly earthed - not worrying about the center conductor - is more important many times over.
 

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Yes, proper earthing is paramount. But there are circumstances when a damaging voltage differential can develop between the shield and the center conductor.


I was not recommending a plug in device. The surge needs to be stopped before it enters the building. You do not need "industrial grade" equipment to do this. The Polyphaser equipment relies on the same technology as can be found in less expensive intended for residential application.


The argument that cable companies recommend against such protection is a poor one. Cable companies are only interested in their own bottom line. The use of plug-in devices causes them to lose money in service calls. That is why they discourage the use of them. FWIW a device that uses a gas discharge tube should not cause any significant degradation to the cable service.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm /forum/post/17412967


The argument that cable companies recommend against such protection is a poor one. Cable companies are only interested in their own bottom line.

Around here, cable company service calls are free. If their equipment fails even due to lightning, equipment is replaced for free - their cost. Once major companies took over hoe-dunk cable, then all installers were retrained in proper earthing. Increase costs. All customers got rewired. Why spend so much? Cable companies need better protection and reliable equipment to maintain customers.


What does a plug-in protector do on cable company lines. 1) No earth ground means no effective protection. 2) Degrades signals. 3) Can even contribute to electronics and coax wire damage due to being too close to the appliance and too far from earth ground. 4) Creates increased cable company costs when they must roll a truck to fix these many problems.


Every dollar spent on a plug-in protector is better spent upgrading earth ground - assuming the homeowner wants protected appliances. Numerous reasons why cable companies recommend no plug-in protectors on their cable.


To install protectors that do not degrade signals, see Polyphaser. Consumer grade (plug-in) protector is typically inferior - degrade cable signals. And is not located where it can provide protection - not located where a Polyphaser protector would be located. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Cable needs no protector to make that connection.
 
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