AVS Forum banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My small home studio has 5 active speakers (with built in 290W amp) Neumann KH310... takes input voltage 100 to 240V and my processor is a Motu Ultralite MK3


The mains power in India (220V/50Hz) isn't very good

- frequent surges and dips with diesel generators coming in and out along with factories nearby and sometimes even surges due to lightning.


I know for sure I need very good surge protection.

What should I get for good surge protection?


Do I need power conditioning?

Are the Furman PL 8 C E the ones to get?


What about all the other products being talked about?

I don't think I will need a voltage Regulator but what about Isolators?

some suggest Equi=Tech


Some say the best solution is to get a Sinewave inverter (online UPS) - but these can have their own hum and noise.


What is the recommended solution?

Please help.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,420 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by intgenx  /t/1520446/surge-protector-vs-power...ators-vs-sinewave-inverters-ups#post_24425930


My small home studio has 5 active speakers (with built in 290W amp) Neumann KH310... takes input voltage 100 to 240V and my processor is a Motu Ultralite MK3


The mains power in India (220V/50Hz) isn't very good

- frequent surges and dips with diesel generators coming in and out along with factories nearby and sometimes even surges due to lightning.


I know for sure I need very good surge protection.

What should I get for good surge protection?


Do I need power conditioning?

Are the Furman PL 8 C E the ones to get?


What about all the other products being talked about?

I don't think I will need a voltage Regulator but what about Isolators?

some suggest Equi=Te

Some say the best solution is to get a Sinewave inverter (online UPS) - but these can have their own hum and noise.


What is the recommended solution?

Please help.


Follow the same practices that you and others in your situation follow with business and electronic equipment - telephones, computers, televisions, radios etc.


Rapid and frequent changes in power line voltage are not necessarily damaging. How big they are is far more important.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Most people here use a simple UPS for their computers....etc but Laser printers etc aren't fully protected... by the UPS...

some use a sinewave UPS for their computer monitors.. but UPS also fails frequently during enormous surges...


but how would a regular UPS work in my case... where I need nearly 4000W (Speakers 290 x 5 + Subwoofer (1000 x 2) + LED TV + Processor + HTPC + modem + set-top box)


So a Sine wave UPS or inverter would be the way to go?

Not sure which ones run noise free - or I may have to keep it in a different room?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
18,829 Posts
Your first line of defense should be a whole house surge protection device which is installed at the meter/entrance into your home. The best ground is there and allows the unit to redirect the surges most efficiently. Putting surge protection systems farther down the line in your house does little in this regard. Not sure what to recommend in your country. Ask around or call electricians and see what they install. The unit you get must have fuses that blow out when the surge comes. See this post I wrote in this regard: http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/forums/viewpost.cgi?1142527


Note that UPS systems do *not* provide surge protection of any value. Again, they are not installed in the right place in the house and at any rate, they usually have a dirt cheap protection circuit like the one in a surge protector. And as you rightly note, they lack the power (in reasonable cost form) to power your system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,033 Posts
+1 with a panel mounted whole house protection.

I really like and have great luck with the Housegaurd series from RGPC http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/pdf/surge/houseguard.pdf

This is a serious self healing device that really works. Forgo anything that uses a cheap MOV.


Then I would focus on your incoming services-phone, network, cable etc. These are usually overlooked. http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/connect.html


Next I would look at local filtering and UPS.

I have had excellent results with a Powerbridge http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/pdf/ups/powerbridge.pdf

Feeding a 220 Powerhouse that steps the power down to 110
http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/pdf/power/powerhouse.pdf

This solution is big bucks but it's the best we have been able to find.

I'd contact RGPC for a solution for your specific system.

They hired a real power expert a couple years ago. In his previous potions he designed solutions for mission critical applications like cell towers, central offices, server farms etc. Jim really, really knows his stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,642 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by intgenx  /t/1520446/surge-protector-vs-power...ators-vs-sinewave-inverters-ups#post_24426111


Most people here use a simple UPS for their computers....etc but Laser printers etc aren't fully protected... by the UPS...

some use a sinewave UPS for their computer monitors.. but UPS also fails frequently during enormous surges...


but how would a regular UPS work in my case... where I need nearly 4000W (Speakers 290 x 5 + Subwoofer (1000 x 2) + LED TV + Processor + HTPC + modem + set-top box)


So a Sine wave UPS or inverter would be the way to go?

Not sure which ones run noise free - or I may have to keep it in a different room?

You don't need 4000W continuous for your speakers. With normal music program the power draw is a lot less.


"Mission critical" equipment like your DAW and your local file storage you want to protect from power outages to be able to save your work.


For surge protection you should consult a local service.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you so much folks for all the suggestions...


ok got it .. "Whole house protection installed at the panel..." (what brands/equipment are recommended for this?)

and assuming I can get this done in my apartment... and assuming I can find a suitably qualified Electrician locally (they don't exist - as 99% of Electricians in India are just hacks who know nothing)...

this will sort out surges from external sources...


now what about surges or noise caused by internal equipment - like ovens, fridges, blenders and other power hogs and noise sources etc?

What would I need to use at the point where my PRECIOUS Audio, Video and computer equipment are connected...?


pl. help
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
18,829 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by intgenx  /t/1520446/surge-protector-vs-power...ators-vs-sinewave-inverters-ups#post_24426725


Thank you so much folks for all the suggestions...


ok got it .. "Whole house protection installed at the panel..." (what brands/equipment are recommended for this?)

and assuming I can get this done in my apartment... and assuming I can find a suitably qualified Electrician locally (they don't exist - as 99% of Electricians in India are just hacks who know nothing)...

this will sort out surges from external sources...
We use Total Protection Solutions (TPS): http://www.tpssurge.com/ . They are pretty easy to install as long as you are comfortable with high voltages. They must be installed very close to the incoming lines.


Eaton is a very common brand and seem to have an operation in india: http://www.eaton.in/EatonIN/index.htm . While not as good as TPS, it is far better than nothing. They may also have installers they suggest.
Quote:
now what about surges or noise caused by internal equipment - like ovens, fridges, blenders and other power hogs and noise sources etc?
Only loads with substantial "inductive" loads such as large pumps will induce enough of a surge to matter. And if they do, you can put one of the above devices on it. The things you mention are not a problem from a surge point of view.


Noise is another matter and that is hard to diagnose as it is equipment specific. Do you hear any noises right now from them?
Quote:
What would I need to use at the point where my PRECIOUS Audio, Video and computer equipment are connected...?


pl. help
If you bought proper, name brand equipment, it should have pretty good level of protection in it already.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
I also endorse a whole house surge suppressor. It is cheap and effective when you consider what it does and how quick its response time is. However, that will only protect you from the "big ones" and not from fluctuations that will not trip the suppressor. I believe you will still need another solution to handle the small changes. I would think a high quality power conditioner would help in that regards, but I don't have much knowledge with the subject because I don't have that particular issue.


Also, I don't know too much about politics about India, but I would see if there is an organization/lobby where you could donate some money to lobby for more/better power plants and transmission lines in your area. Your real solution is not band aid fix it with a power conditioner, but to get reliable electricity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,649 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turlen  /t/1520446/surge-protector-vs-power...ators-vs-sinewave-inverters-ups#post_24427287


... I would see if there is an organization/lobby where you could donate some money to lobby for more/better power plants and transmission lines in your area. Your real solution is not band aid fix it with a power conditioner, but to get reliable electricity.
LOL! You need to read a little about power in India...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I know I have a surge problem because my laser printer (which was not connected to the UPS) was toast when the grid power cut-out and the generator came back on...

and am not sure how much and how long of a protection the UPS will offer my HTPC and Sound Card.... even for these surges

but the active monitors...are not connected to the UPS... as the power rating is not enough...


so I'm worried to use them for any length of time due to fear of surges...


as for noise I hear a click or pop every time a switch for a major appliance like a blender or oven is switched on/off...

and i don't know if the clicks/pops will go away and if i'll get a lower noise floor if I use some of the things (conditioner or isolator or balanced power etc) being talked about here...


so basically I just need to isolate my AV components from whatever is going in the rest of the apartment, the building and the grid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,535 Posts
Couldn't find a dedicated thread in the forum about this subject then saw this thread and thought I'd post here.

Had a question about using surge protectors. Thinking about purchasing two 8 outlet Brick Wall units and was wondering can you plug one unit into the other then plug that one into your main power line? 8 of my 15 devices are on the opposite side of the room from the dedicated line in my HT so I was going to plug them into the first unit, then that into the second unit, attach the rest of my devices to the second then to my dedicated line. Tried emailing Brick Wall but couldn't get through as well as using their 800 line. Thanks so much for the help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
@Subavision - You have to calculate the total load needed by your second set of devices and if the total of first and second set exceeds the load rating of the individual Brickwall.

http://www.brickwall.com/collections/surge-protectors-home-theater-hdtv/products/eight-outlet-audio-surge-protector

If you got the above item - it can provide: 15A at 120 volts - ie 15 x 120 = 1800W


Although all of your devices are not likely to draw their peak power at the same time, the peak requirement is what is usually used for calculating the load needed in a given circuit.


Therefore if all your devices combined do not exceed 1800W - then you can connect your 2nd Brickwall to the first.

If not, you are going to have to run another line from the breaker/panel to the second set of devices.


This Amp rating calculation also applies to the circuit breaker in the panel to which these devices will be connected...


connections in domestic households frequently attach more load than the breakers are rated for - this is for cost/space saving because not all devices in a household are expected to be run at the same time...

whereas for a home-theater or studio - most of your devices are meant to be working at the same time...
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top