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Discussion Starter #1
After PB13 Ultra's delivered on Monday, had to wait for my son to help when he got to house yesterday.

Finally, set them up and started to play with them. I had the HSU VTF2 MK5s. These subs do create some difficulty now in my configuration with the Emotiva T2 towers due to their size.
(See pics)
Before I could fit the HSU and EMotiva's in the corner, now I cant rather have to put the T2s in the front of cabinet

But, I am not seeing that big of a difference in sound vs. HSU's
. A little bit yes, but not dramatic enought for the $3K cost for duals. I'm going to play with them a little more but now I'm thinking about ordering the Monolith 15s while I have the SVS PB 13Ultra's here to do a head to head. Is there something I'm not doing right? My florida room also is a nightmare with all the glass but HSUs just seem to be more efficient.

I had the SVS volume at 0, and now calibrated to -10 but haven't played them since changing -10 as I will this weekend.
Also have all crossovers at 80, lpf>lfe at 80

Option 1, just return the SVS subs and keep the HSU's be happy with those subs as they do make the room less crowded and aesthetically more pleasing.
Option 2, order Monolith 15s do head to heard (little worried in Mono's not better now have to pay $300+ for shipping back)

I didnt want to spend more than 3K on subs because its not worth it with the little bit of HT usage per month....but I do want that awesome experience when I do.
Im not a big user of subs, maybe 4-6x per month for movies...that's about it.

I'm asking for any suggestions?? Help? Opinions....

Thanks


NOTE: Pics 1st is back of Florida room which is like 35-40 length, 14 feet wide
2nd pic- up closer to see configuration
 

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HI

What is the gain level on the PB13 Ultra?

What is the trim level on your receiver after you calibrate?
 

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After PB13 Ultra's delivered on Monday, had to wait for my son to help when he got to house yesterday.

Finally, set them up and started to play with them. I had the HSU VTF2 MK5s. These subs do create some difficulty now in my configuration with the Emotiva T2 towers due to their size.
(See pics)
Before I could fit the HSU and EMotiva's in the corner, now I cant rather have to put the T2s in the front of cabinet

But, I am not seeing that big of a difference in sound vs. HSU's
. A little bit yes, but not dramatic enought for the $3K cost for duals. I'm going to play with them a little more but now I'm thinking about ordering the Monolith 15s while I have the SVS PB 13Ultra's here to do a head to head. Is there something I'm not doing right? My florida room also is a nightmare with all the glass but HSUs just seem to be more efficient.

I had the SVS volume at 0, and now calibrated to -10 but haven't played them since changing -10 as I will this weekend.
Also have all crossovers at 80, lpf>lfe at 80

Option 1, just return the SVS subs and keep the HSU's be happy with those subs as they do make the room less crowded and aesthetically more pleasing.
Option 2, order Monolith 15s do head to heard (little worried in Mono's not better now have to pay $300+ for shipping back)

I didnt want to spend more than 3K on subs because its not worth it with the little bit of HT usage per month....but I do want that awesome experience when I do.
Im not a big user of subs, maybe 4-6x per month for movies...that's about it.

I'm asking for any suggestions?? Help? Opinions....

Thanks


NOTE: Pics 1st is back of Florida room which is like 35-40 length, 14 feet wide
2nd pic- up closer to see configuration

Hi Mike,

I responded to your PM with some specific suggestions, including the use of the 15Hz mode. Seeing your photos, I would add the suggestion to also try moving the subwoofers inside the speakers, instead of having them against the side walls. Try both arrangements to discover which will work better overall. I think that your speakers will sound better spread further apart. At a minimum, that should widen your soundstage.

I think that the biggest suggestion I could add to the ones I already made in the PM is to be patient and give yourself a little time. By all means, order Monolith 15's if you want to, but you haven't begun to really test the PB13's yet, in my opinion. As you noticed when you tried cascading crossovers, the combination of small setting changes, and some subwoofer volume changes, can make a big difference in the results. And, you are just starting a 45-day free trial period now. :)

Regards,
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #4
HI

What is the gain level on the PB13 Ultra?

What is the trim level on your receiver after you calibrate?
Never touched gain level on PB13.
On AVR, I have sub adjust "Off"
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Mike,

I responded to your PM with some specific suggestions, including the use of the 15Hz mode. Seeing your photos, I would add the suggestion to also try moving the subwoofers inside the speakers, instead of having them against the side walls. Try both arrangements to discover which will work better overall. I think that your speakers will sound better spread further apart. At a minimum, that should widen your soundstage.

I think that the biggest suggestion I could add to the ones I already made in the PM is to be patient and give yourself a little time. By all means, order Monolith 15's if you want to, but you haven't begun to really test the PB13's yet, in my opinion. As you noticed when you tried cascading crossovers, the combination of small setting changes, and some subwoofer volume changes, can make a big difference in the results. And, you are just starting a 45-day free trial period now. :)

Regards,
Mike
Thanks Mike. re: configuration...unfortunately I cant fit both speaker and subs in corner now like I could with HSU's. I can move the speakers in corners no prob, but the subs would have to go where the speakers are in my 2nd pic which means big ole subs sticking out in front of the long cabinet which just doesn't look good. My area there create some configuration problems.
I'll keep playing around with everything. You've been a great help.
 

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Two things to point out.

1.U wont get good bass from that sitting location. You would need a wall behind the couch. Wall to wall. Sitting in the middle of the room usually takes out the bass. Its like having a car with 700hp but only taking 70hp down to the ground

2. PB13 uses Fiberglas cone which sounds lifeless and boring. I've owned these and i wasnt impressed either and sold it
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Two things to point out.

1.U wont get good bass from that sitting location. You would need a wall behind the couch. Wall to wall. Sitting in the middle of the room usually takes out the bass. Its like having a car with 700hp but only taking 70hp down to the ground

2. PB13 uses Fiberglas cone which sounds lifeless and boring. I've owned these and i wasnt impressed either and sold it
The cone makes that much of a difference?

What did you buy after sold it?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi Mike,

I responded to your PM with some specific suggestions, including the use of the 15Hz mode. Seeing your photos, I would add the suggestion to also try moving the subwoofers inside the speakers, instead of having them against the side walls. Try both arrangements to discover which will work better overall. I think that your speakers will sound better spread further apart. At a minimum, that should widen your soundstage.

I think that the biggest suggestion I could add to the ones I already made in the PM is to be patient and give yourself a little time. By all means, order Monolith 15's if you want to, but you haven't begun to really test the PB13's yet, in my opinion. As you noticed when you tried cascading crossovers, the combination of small setting changes, and some subwoofer volume changes, can make a big difference in the results. And, you are just starting a 45-day free trial period now. :)

Regards,
Mike
Closer look at the speaker/sub config difficulty
 

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Have you considered the SB-4000? My friend has dual SB-16 Ultras in his theater and says he has never had better base. Prior to these he has always had ported subs and he says now he will be sticking with sealed subwoofers. The SB-4000 are a little over 3” narrower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Closer look at the speaker/sub config difficulty

Now I see what you mean! :) I might try a couple of different things. One would be to move the subwoofers close to the sides of the cabinet and push them as far backwards as you can. You can also pull the cabinet away from the wall a little to equalize the appearance a little more. Then, the speakers would move out to the sides and a little in front of the subs.

The other arrangement I would consider is to turn the subwoofers 90 degrees so that they run parallel to the wall. The drivers could face out toward the side walls, or in toward the cabinet. If the cabinet were pulled forward a few inches, it and the subs would line-up pretty well. The speakers then would just be out in front of the new wall created by the subwoofers.

As noted in a PM, I see this as a balancing act, where you are discovering where the subs and speakers sound the best overall, at the same time that you decide what you can live with aesthetically. It can take some experimentation to discover what you like best. And, I think it's easier to predict where the speakers will sound best (spread apart more widely) than it is to predict whether subwoofers will interact with room modes better facing forward, or facing sideways. I would definitely play with these arrangements a little.

Regards,
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Now I see what you mean! :) I might try a couple of different things. One would be to move the subwoofers close to the sides of the cabinet and push them as far backwards as you can. You can also pull the cabinet away from the wall a little to equalize the appearance a little more. Then, the speakers would move out to the sides and a little in front of the subs.

The other arrangement I would consider is to turn the subwoofers 90 degrees so that they run parallel to the wall. The drivers could face out toward the side walls, or in toward the cabinet. If the cabinet were pulled forward a few inches, it and the subs would line-up pretty well. The speakers then would just be out in front of the new wall created by the subwoofers.

As noted in a PM, I see this as a balancing act, where you are discovering where the subs and speakers sound the best overall, at the same time that you decide what you can live with aesthetically. It can take some experimentation to discover what you like best. And, I think it's easier to predict where the speakers will sound best (spread apart more widely) than it is to predict whether subwoofers will interact with room modes better facing forward, or facing sideways. I would definitely play with these arrangements a little.

Regards,
Mike
I like both of these ideas.
I will try Idea #1 first

Then, try the 90 degree idea so the drivers basically turned in would face the cabinet if #1 doesnt work
 

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Two things to point out.

1.U wont get good bass from that sitting location. You would need a wall behind the couch. Wall to wall. Sitting in the middle of the room usually takes out the bass. Its like having a car with 700hp but only taking 70hp down to the ground

2. PB13 uses Fiberglas cone which sounds lifeless and boring. I've owned these and i wasnt impressed either and sold it
First this does not help the OP at all and sounds like you are bashing SVS. SVS cone driver has nothing to do with it since they are very good subs. So instead of doing that, try to help the OP at least.

To the OP....I have dual pb13s in open room and it also sounded lifeless til I experimented with sub placement options and it came alive! Any sub can sound good especially pb13s which are still top notch subs today if you have it placed well. I have found in my room throwing dual subs on front wall doesn't always give best performance, even though it looks best that way. You have a large open floor plan and it will take more than 2 subs to get that slam. If you want more slam without buying more subs, put one sub nearfield near the couch and keep one on front wall.

Do you still have your HSU subs? If so, you can use it along with SVS subs since 4 subs will help you get that impact. You have a difficult room to work with. Also if you want the ULF you can look at something like crowson transducers for your seating....gives impression that you have multiple 18s behind your seating. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Have you thought about using a wireless sub kit and moving them to another location in the room?
I haven't but for aesthetics I think moving these big things around just wouldnt look good. I have to kinda keep them towards the front.
 

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You might want to check for null zones in your listening position. Use this web calculator, enter your room size and then hover the mouse over the vertical lines on the Schroder chart to listen for drop outs at specific modes. In my case, rotating the left sub 90° clockwise fixed my deepest null.
https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=22&w=25&h=8&ft=true&r60=0.6
 

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Closer look at the speaker/sub config difficulty
Now I see what you mean! :) I might try a couple of different things. One would be to move the subwoofers close to the sides of the cabinet and push them as far backwards as you can. You can also pull the cabinet away from the wall a little to equalize the appearance a little more. Then, the speakers would move out to the sides and a little in front of the subs.

The other arrangement I would consider is to turn the subwoofers 90 degrees so that they run parallel to the wall. The drivers could face out toward the side walls, or in toward the cabinet. If the cabinet were pulled forward a few inches, it and the subs would line-up pretty well. The speakers then would just be out in front of the new wall created by the subwoofers.

As noted in a PM, I see this as a balancing act, where you are discovering where the subs and speakers sound the best overall, at the same time that you decide what you can live with aesthetically. It can take some experimentation to discover what you like best. And, I think it's easier to predict where the speakers will sound best (spread apart more widely) than it is to predict whether subwoofers will interact with room modes better facing forward, or facing sideways. I would definitely play with these arrangements a little.

Regards,
Mike
Mike gives good advice. I would try to turn the subs where the drivers fire at the side walls and have it up against front wall. Left sub facing left side wall, right sub facing right side wall. Then put your tower speakers in front of it spread out and slightly toed in. Sub frequencies are omnidirectional so it doesn't mater if your towers are in front of it. Try that. Its all about experimenting! Just make sure you have furniture sliders on subs to make things easier.

Also play with different xover options....such as 80hz and 100hz and see what you like best.
 

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Have you considered the SB-4000? My friend has dual SB-16 Ultras in his theater and says he has never had better base. Prior to these he has always had ported subs and he says now he will be sticking with sealed subwoofers. The SB-4000 are a little over 3” narrower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SB 4000 is pretty much same sub as SB13. He would benefit from ported sub in his open floor plan rather than sealed from a performance aspect.
 
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You might want to check for null zones in your listening position.
Excellent point. I have a feeling that both settings and acoustics are at play here. Those subs in a room that size should EASILY be able to blow the roof off the place with it feeling like King Kong is crashing through the place. You have some Godzilla gear for sure. Now to just figure out the right configurations to wake him up.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Make any sense to put the towers on the subs?
 

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Make any sense to put the towers on the subs?
Personally I would not do that since you want the tweeter/ribbon to be in line with your ears as possible.
 
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