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If they are out of phase they aren't going to perform well together no matter what other changes you make
You bring up an interesting point, whether it's due to phase settings, acoustics, or placement, it does make you wonder if OP has some cancellation going on. I'm just going to reiterate an earlier point of mine: With dual SVS PB13's and a room that size, OP should be straight blasted out of his seat without those subs so much as breaking a sweat. My last setup had dual PC-13's (same driver and amp) and the results were absurd (in a good way). With them barely turned up, I had building obliterating bass. I still remember watching that intro to Edge of Tomorrow and little did I know that one should not have their volume anywhere near reference on that one. That initial bass sweep damn near gave me a heart attack. Screen was still black so wasn't expected at all. Dang near pooped myself with that level of bass.

OP: Your subwoofers can ABSOLUTELY hang. To the point of destroying stuff on the other side of your house if you're not careful. It's just a matter of figuring out how to make them work with your receiver, speakers, room, etc. Best of luck. You'll get it figured out. And when you do, oh man. Hold on to your hat. You're gonna love it.
 

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I had the SVS volume at 0, and now calibrated to -10 but haven't played them since changing -10 as I will this weekend.
Also have all crossovers at 80, lpf>lfe at 80
I'd change the LFE back to 120hz (default) and bump up the crossover to 100 or 120hz. On the SVS thread there is a tip from Ed Mullen about setting up the PEQs to give more mid bass. Pretty sure Mike has the settings memorized. :)
 
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Discussion Starter #43
I officially give up
Have no patience I guess

I tried a few different movie scenes that are pretty dynamic...Max Max- Fury Road, Star Wars- Rogue One
It was ok but I dont even know if they outperformed the HSU VTF2s. I actually think VTF2s give me more boom. Everybody telling me should be major difference.
Just dont get it.

90% I'm returning them. Gonna be such a pain in the ass to repack.
Will give them weekend. I have them same place as the HSUs.

Is there something the HSUs have PB 13s dont ? If so, maybe I'll order the HSU 15 inch.

I've tried every configuration. I guess I need to put these 5 ft in front of me.

Truly baffles me.
 

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mpk1970 said:
90% I'm returning them. Gonna be such a pain in the ass to repack.
Will give them weekend. I have them same place as the HSUs.
Sad to hear that. I understand you. When you invest so much in subwoofers, even if they're not set up optimally, they still should give you a pretty great experience, especially when "lesser" subs are already giving you a solid performance.

Best of luck.
 
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have you identified the point at which the subs cant play any louder? it sounds like you arent following guidelines on how to setup subwoofers.
 
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Discussion Starter #46
have you identified the point at which the subs cant play any louder? it sounds like you arent following guidelines on how to setup subwoofers.
Play louder? I cant even get them to play loud let alone louder....

I've walked away for now too frustrated. I literally put my ear to the drivers and could barely hear output. Nothing is damaged because they both sound same.
They sound like 6 inch diam subs.
My sons $250 BIC has more output.

The HSUs VTF2 are definitely better. Oh well...cant say I didn't get help from everybody on this forum...everybody was great with advice and trying to help.
 
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Out of curiosity, what specific AVR do you have? The bass management can certainly vary quite a bit. My Yamaha CX-A5100 did a VERY good job on that front. Anyway, depending on what you have, it could determine whether you should do your fine tuning on the receiver side or the subwoofer side. With most modern AVRs, I like to let the receiver handle all the processing, plugging into the LFE input on the sub, and leaving most things alone on the sub (leaving LPF, HPF, Room Compensation, etc. all disabled). Also with this sub, make sure you read the directions and plug the ports according to the setting on the sub's amp (Sealed, 16 Hz, 20Hz). The included instructions explain what to do there. If you're altering too many settings on the subwoofer AND the receiver, this could certainly effect what's going on. Like I said, let one side or the other handle manage the bass. Rarely both.

Also, the SVS amp has a little toggle that selects either "Hi-Level" or "Normal." Double check that too. Typically, it should be in "Normal."

In case this is more in depth than what came with your sub, check the online manual out: https://system.na1.netsuite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=557&c=3634088&h=b04ef7988ead2df5c6fd&_xt=.pdf

Last but not least, have you given SVS a call? They are usually extremely helpful and can perhaps guide you along. They've always provided me with exemplary service when coming across trickier situations. Those guys know their stuff. Typically easy to get a hold of and no foreign call center. Usually the same guy picks up the phone. Haha. Great team, really. Try talking to them before returning.
 

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The cone makes that much of a difference?

What did you buy after sold it?
i have had Velodyne DD15 and DD18 after the svs - both uses paper-cones which to me sound lively and snappy. Both uses the same motor/magnet so the dd15 is quicker and slams harder as the cone weight less.

Do you find the pb13 soft sounding and lacks excitement and finding it boring? Then i guess we have the same taste :D

i'll share some photos of my dd18 and pb13 when i owned them both and when i took the dd18 driver out



 

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Play louder? I cant even get them to play loud let alone louder....

I've walked away for now too frustrated. I literally put my ear to the drivers and could barely hear output. Nothing is damaged because they both sound same.
They sound like 6 inch diam subs.
My sons $250 BIC has more output.

The HSUs VTF2 are definitely better. Oh well...cant say I didn't get help from everybody on this forum...everybody was great with advice and trying to help.

Something is wrong somewhere, if you can barely hear output from the subs. It isn't the type of sub/brand that is the problem. It could be something defective in both subs, but having 2 with bad amp or something isn't likely.
It sounds like you have only given them a short period to figure out the problem, and as other have said, maybe start over and re-examine your setup to see what isn't connected or set up correctly, since that seems the most likely culprit.
Mark
 

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Play louder? I cant even get them to play loud let alone louder....

I've walked away for now too frustrated. I literally put my ear to the drivers and could barely hear output. Nothing is damaged because they both sound same.
They sound like 6 inch diam subs.
My sons $250 BIC has more output.
This alone tells me that something is DEFINITELY wrong here. I would put money on it not being the subs themselves. Your PB-13's would utterly destroy your son's BIC if everything was working properly. Best of luck, man. Hope you get it figured out. Again, check that level switch on the sub. If it's set to "Hi-Level," that would explain a lot.
 

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Play louder? I cant even get them to play loud let alone louder....

I've walked away for now too frustrated. I literally put my ear to the drivers and could barely hear output. Nothing is damaged because they both sound same.
They sound like 6 inch diam subs.
My sons $250 BIC has more output.

The HSUs VTF2 are definitely better. Oh well...cant say I didn't get help from everybody on this forum...everybody was great with advice and trying to help.
I have the older SVS PB dual 12/+ and my listening environment is over 4800cft with 8-9 foot ceiling not counting the adjacent rooms of the dinning room and kitchen. That SVS sits front left of MLP and it shakes everything on the floor. I don't see my cat for days. Something is wrong here in your set-up.

I am using Yamaha Z11 with trim -6 and gain on sub about 11 o'clock. I set the crossover wide open on sub and my fronts are crossed at 60hz, the surrounds are at 80hz. I do not use plugs so it is tuned at 20hz and the ports are facing the corner side wall. The sub "distance" was placed over 32 feet when actually it is about 10 feet.
 
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Play louder? I cant even get them to play loud let alone louder....

I've walked away for now too frustrated. I literally put my ear to the drivers and could barely hear output. Nothing is damaged because they both sound same.
They sound like 6 inch diam subs.
My sons $250 BIC has more output.

The HSUs VTF2 are definitely better. Oh well...cant say I didn't get help from everybody on this forum...everybody was great with advice and trying to help.
SVS internal volume amp gain is pretty low ! You need to feed it with more gain from your amp/source
 

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Looks to me you are getting cancelation between subwoofers at the crossover point. Your AVR (Marantz SR5012) has Audyssey XT so no SubEQ HT. There is no independent subwoofer distance and level for each subwoofer so you have to be very careful every time you change orientation or position in one of the two subwoofers because you can not make individual corrections for each subwoofer. In your case, with that receiver both subwoofers have to be at the same distance from main listening position. Not sure how the delay/phase works on the PB13 Ultra but you can try changing the delay/phase knob position in one of the two subwoofers until you get more bass in the MLP. That will confirm that the subwoofers are out of phase and canceling each other. If you have a calibrated mic, then check with REW on Impulse Response overlays to see if the subwoofers are out of phase.
 
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Looks to me you are getting cancelation between subwoofers at the crossover point. Your AVR (Marantz SR5012) has Audyssey XT so no SubEQ HT. There is no independent subwoofer distance and level for each subwoofer so you have to be very careful every time you change orientation or position in one of the two subwoofers because you can not make individual corrections for each subwoofer. In your case, with that receiver both subwoofers have to be at the same distance from main listening position. Not sure how the delay/phase works on the PB13 Ultra but you can try changing the delay/phase knob position in one of the two subwoofers until you get more bass in the MLP. That will confirm that the subwoofers are out of phase and canceling each other. If you have a calibrated mic, then check with REW on Impulse Response overlays to see if the subwoofers are out of phase.
Which actually brings me to another point. Perhaps OP should leave one entirely disconnected or powered off and see how that effects things. If he ends up with tons more bass by leaving one of them off, then cancellation would certainly appear to be the issue. If it's still total weak sauce, then it's likely something else to begin with.
 

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Which actually brings me to another point. Perhaps OP should leave one entirely disconnected or powered off and see how that effects things. If he ends up with tons more bass by leaving one of them off, then cancellation would certainly appear to be the issue. If it's still total weak sauce, then it's likely something else to begin with.
Yes, that's another way to make sure they are not cancelling each other. Now, if with one subwoofer the bass is still weak, then he would need a calibrated mic to take REW measurements because most likely his MLP is located in a huge null.
 

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Yes, that's another way to make sure they are not cancelling each other. Now, if with one subwoofer the bass is still weak, then he would need a calibrated mic to take REW measurements because most likely his MLP is located in a huge null.
True. Or do the subwoofer crawl I mentioned earlier. He very well could be in a big null.
 

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SVS internal volume amp gain is pretty low ! You need to feed it with more gain from your amp/source
Not for my setup, I had to use a relatively low volume setting on my dual SB16Us in my room.
 

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I officially give up
Have no patience I guess

I tried a few different movie scenes that are pretty dynamic...Max Max- Fury Road, Star Wars- Rogue One
It was ok but I dont even know if they outperformed the HSU VTF2s. I actually think VTF2s give me more boom. Everybody telling me should be major difference.
Just dont get it.

90% I'm returning them. Gonna be such a pain in the ass to repack.
Will give them weekend. I have them same place as the HSUs.

Is there something the HSUs have PB 13s dont ? If so, maybe I'll order the HSU 15 inch.

I've tried every configuration. I guess I need to put these 5 ft in front of me.

Truly baffles me.
Don't be too discouraged. I wasn't going to say anything because it usually just upsets owners, but the PB13 Ultra isn't the powerhouse people make it out to be. Before everyone reaches for the tar and feathers, let me preface my statement that I owned two of them for a number of years. I think I bought them sometime around 2008-2009. At that time, the heavy hitters in the market were Epik, Elemental Designs, Seaton via AV123, and SVS. The PB13 Ultra held its own back then and was a powerhouse in its own right. However, it is easily bested by the current offerings from PSA, JTR, Deep Sea Sound, etc. I enjoyed the PB13 Ultras for the years I owned them, but they don't come close to today's market offerings.
 

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in the avr menu make subs are set to on.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Don't be too discouraged. I wasn't going to say anything because it usually just upsets owners, but the PB13 Ultra isn't the powerhouse people make it out to be. Before everyone reaches for the tar and feathers, let me preface my statement that I owned two of them for a number of years. I think I bought them sometime around 2008-2009. At that time, the heavy hitters in the market were Epik, Elemental Designs, Seaton via AV123, and SVS. The PB13 Ultra held its own back then and was a powerhouse in its own right. However, it is easily bested by the current offerings from PSA, JTR, Deep Sea Sound, etc. I enjoyed the PB13 Ultras for the years I owned them, but they don't come close to today's market offerings.
Dont disagree, but they should be substantially better than petty HSU VTF2s
 
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