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Discussion Starter #81
sorry, not to belabor it, but you had the right input selected on the selctor switch on th seldge amp? ("normal" iirc)
yes I did ....I went thru everything like 5x on both the subs and AVR

As I just answered, I thought it was weird drivers weren't really moving but very minor....could see vibrations but nothing when I put the VTF2s back up...those drivers were movin good
 

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Discussion Starter #82
I’ve had a similar problem. When I got my first PSA V1500 the performance was incredibly underwhelming. My 20 year old 12” velodyne smoked it. For days I went through every setting there was, ran Audyssey a dozen times, moved the sub all over the room. It just wasn’t working properly. I got all the same advice you’re getting now like “your subs are canceling each other out”. Out of pure frustration I started flipping through listening modes on my AVR (stereo, Dolby, dts). When I flipped it to DTS X Neural the 15” roared to life and never had an issue like that again. There was something funky about the signal my AVR was sending to the sub - to this day I really don’t get it.

If / when you get your subs dialed in I would strongly recommend putting them nearfield behind the couch. That room looks like a place that bass goes to die. I have an even larger and more open floor plan so I can relate. I resisted nearfield placement for a while but in a room like that, it’s the way to go. Leaving the subs up front and putting the HSU subs behind your couch would also be a good option.

The comment a few pages back about the cone material being to blame is AVS comedy gold, btw.

Good luck. Try not to get overly frustrated by this. It’s a minor setback that you’ll get past. If you do end up returning the SVS for whatever reason I’d strongly recommend looking at some 18” subs for that room. You have the budget for some serious firepower from a smaller ID company.
Actually, the VTFs that I put back in place after packing the PB 13s, were rocking. I basically put volume at 75% vs. 50% what I normally had. I was in my bathroom and those things were shaking the house.
They actually work pretty good. I"m considering adding two more VTF2s now and stack them.....??
 

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Discussion Starter #83
Did you try cranking the sub level in your receiver ? Are you sure you don’t have dynamic range reduction on or any other processing in your receiver that could tame the bass output?


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I dont think I did because the minute I put the HSU's back in place, everything was fine??? I'll never know at this point what problem was unless when SVS gets the return they say it was AMP problem
 

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all I know is I would be pissed if got 2 hvy subs I need to return...with my handicap status I would have to pay some to ship em back
 

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Discussion Starter #85
all I know is I would be pissed if got 2 hvy subs I need to return...with my handicap status I would have to pay some to ship em back
Not fun believe me.
 

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Minor driver movement. I could feel vibration but no noticeable driver movement.
Ok as rare as it would be with aggressive gain and no driver movement on both subs and then the HSU's pounding,,,, i guess it is what it is,,,, sounds like bad amps. That sucks man sorry you had to go through that.
 

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That's a bummer. Sorry you had to go through all that nonsense if it ended up just being some bad amps. The odds are astronomical to end up with two bad amps, but I suppose that could be what it is. Wish I was in your locale to help you! We could've physically tested the amp board. Way easier than packing those beasts back up and getting shipped back out.
Actually that does remind me. If you're willing to do the work, SVS will gladly send you a new amp for you to swap if that's what they determined it most likely is. Would you be willing to try that? It's super easy actually. Just a handful of screws and a couple of wires to unplug/plug back in. You could do it in like 10 minutes tops. Might be worth a shot if you're willing to give SVS one last chance. If it were me, I'd go that route first before lugging those things out.
 

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Discussion Starter #88
That's a bummer. Sorry you had to go through all that nonsense if it ended up just being some bad amps. The odds are astronomical to end up with two bad amps, but I suppose that could be what it is. Wish I was in your locale to help you! We could've physically tested the amp board. Way easier than packing those beasts back up and getting shipped back out.
Actually that does remind me. If you're willing to do the work, SVS will gladly send you a new amp for you to swap if that's what they determined it most likely is. Would you be willing to try that? It's super easy actually. Just a handful of screws and a couple of wires to unplug/plug back in. You could do it in like 10 minutes tops. Might be worth a shot if you're willing to give SVS one last chance. If it were me, I'd go that route first before lugging those things out.
Thank you for the help
SVS was great offered
1) new amps I replace
2) send back subs and they replace amps
3) send back subs they send new subs

Ultimately, with all that I went thru I'm going to just send back....I broke these thin pavers I have at front door step, chipped my door, just so many things went wrong I'm just kinda mentally done with this experiment for now.
I've already packed them up with help from my son helping me lift these things on to the styrofoam...

Now, I'm even scared to order new subs lol

But these HSUs are doing a dam good job with the towers
 
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Not fun believe me.
I don’t believe that the issue here is the amplifier or the sub for that matter.

Last month when I ordered my Monolith 12” all of my subs favorite place was a front corner beside my TV stand, no matter if it was my BIC PL-200 II, Polk PSW505, Monolith 10”, or Monolith 12” they all loved that front corner.

My buddy has a SVS PB-2000, I took him my Monolith 12” & took his PB2K in the meantime and threw it in that front corner...nothing. Absolutely nothing. I called him and made sure he didn’t make me haul this 80lb 12” around for no reason but a giggle but he assured me it shook his room. Remember my room is 9x15 so it should be breaking drywall. It didn’t matter if I had the gain maxed out & the AVR trim at +5 w/ a master volume of 0 it wasn’t doing ****!

I ended up throwing that beast all around my room, different corners, halfway on side walls, middle of the room, anywhere there was open floor space. I pm’d mthomas as well, made a thread, etc. I received the same suggestions you have, something is not right.

After two days I totally rearranged my room, flipped the furniture, moved my seating, throw my TV & setup on the other side of the room & wallah; output! Between my placement & seating I was in a massive null bringing the output down 27dB...27dB!

My point being, every sub I’ve owned loved that one corner until the SVS PB2K didn’t, it created a bass black hole, sucking all output down the abyss. This sounds exactly what you are experiencing. It sounds like you spent more time packing & unpacking than you did trying to integrate the PB13’s. Just because your HSU’s like that front wall doesn’t mean every sub is going to. Also you didn’t even adjust the gain according to your post so I’m curious if you wanted the PB13’s to work in the first place...

You can buy every brand of subwoofer available in the world but, if you don’t find the correct placement, make sure polarity is correct, make sure there’s not phase issues, address nulls & modes, & take the time to properly adjust your system settings, you’re just wasting money whether it be shipping or purchasing them, wasting your time, etc.

It would have been much simpler & easier to find a remedy to your placement issues than packaging both of those big subwoofers. I’m not trying to upset you or sound cynical but, there’s no point in experimenting with other subs if you aren’t willing to accommodate their best placement/settings needs. Yes it is a need. If you expect tremendous output & extension, you’ll have to experiment with different gain settings, different PEQ settings, different phase settings, different phase settings, different AVR settings, & most importantly different placement.

It seems between your front wall & your seating you are experiencing nulls &/or standing waves. Even moving your seating forward or backwards 6”-1’ can fix these issues.

I’d recommend getting these running right, stop worrying about aesthetics so much for now, then once you figure out what the best setup is, go from there.

Anyway I’d be willing to help if you’d want to unpack them but, I don’t see buying a different brand would remedy your room issues.
 

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^^^

In most cases i would agree with your statement. With aggressive gain on both subs,,, there was no cone movement For subs known for good driver excursion,,,,,, this was not a location issue imo. No driver movement/high gain and avr trim= bad amp when all other trouble shooting remedies had been explored.
 

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I could definiely fit the subs in corners like that but that doesn't block the sound waves?



But again, why aren't the HSUs having same issues and performing good?? That's whats scratching my head.


Have you thought about just going back with the Hsu’s? Why did you switch in the first place?


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Discussion Starter #92
I don’t believe that the issue here is the amplifier or the sub for that matter.

Last month when I ordered my Monolith 12” all of my subs favorite place was a front corner beside my TV stand, no matter if it was my BIC PL-200 II, Polk PSW505, Monolith 10”, or Monolith 12” they all loved that front corner.

My buddy has a SVS PB-2000, I took him my Monolith 12” & took his PB2K in the meantime and threw it in that front corner...nothing. Absolutely nothing. I called him and made sure he didn’t make me haul this 80lb 12” around for no reason but a giggle but he assured me it shook his room. Remember my room is 9x15 so it should be breaking drywall. It didn’t matter if I had the gain maxed out & the AVR trim at +5 w/ a master volume of 0 it wasn’t doing ****!

I ended up throwing that beast all around my room, different corners, halfway on side walls, middle of the room, anywhere there was open floor space. I pm’d mthomas as well, made a thread, etc. I received the same suggestions you have, something is not right.

After two days I totally rearranged my room, flipped the furniture, moved my seating, throw my TV & setup on the other side of the room & wallah; output! Between my placement & seating I was in a massive null bringing the output down 27dB...27dB!

My point being, every sub I’ve owned loved that one corner until the SVS PB2K didn’t, it created a bass black hole, sucking all output down the abyss. This sounds exactly what you are experiencing. It sounds like you spent more time packing & unpacking than you did trying to integrate the PB13’s. Just because your HSU’s like that front wall doesn’t mean every sub is going to. Also you didn’t even adjust the gain according to your post so I’m curious if you wanted the PB13’s to work in the first place...

You can buy every brand of subwoofer available in the world but, if you don’t find the correct placement, make sure polarity is correct, make sure there’s not phase issues, address nulls & modes, & take the time to properly adjust your system settings, you’re just wasting money whether it be shipping or purchasing them, wasting your time, etc.

It would have been much simpler & easier to find a remedy to your placement issues than packaging both of those big subwoofers. I’m not trying to upset you or sound cynical but, there’s no point in experimenting with other subs if you aren’t willing to accommodate their best placement/settings needs. Yes it is a need. If you expect tremendous output & extension, you’ll have to experiment with different gain settings, different PEQ settings, different phase settings, different phase settings, different AVR settings, & most importantly different placement.

It seems between your front wall & your seating you are experiencing nulls &/or standing waves. Even moving your seating forward or backwards 6”-1’ can fix these issues.

I’d recommend getting these running right, stop worrying about aesthetics so much for now, then once you figure out what the best setup is, go from there.

Anyway I’d be willing to help if you’d want to unpack them but, I don’t see buying a different brand would remedy your room issues.
I'm curious did you have driver movement?? I didn't...I had vibration of the drivers. Kinda odd my son has two diff brand of subs, I have HSUs...I see/hear drivers...I put my ear to the SVS's and barely any sound.
Maybe you right
Maybe somehow they don't play at all in a corner but that seems kinda odd but I'm no audio pro again you might be right....here's the thing...I moved them about 4 ft from wall as long as the cable would allow and same thing..not much bass, when I say not much I mean like drivers just vibrating like when you turn your phone from ringing to vibrate.
The last thing I wanted to do was pack these things back up, it was a PIA

I changed/adjusted every single thing on sub & avr per SVS and @mthomas47

I'm not sure what else I could do?? I would take another SVS PB13 Ultra as they offered but at this point...I'm gun shy
 

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Discussion Starter #93
Have you thought about just going back with the Hsu’s? Why did you switch in the first place?


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I'll probably go back to HSU. I only went with SVS due to strong recommendations with them being on sale for $1400/each
Will look to add 2 subs next to couch and keep HSU VTF2s up front
 

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@madhuski yes I have the right cable, input from sub pre out, to the left input on sub


Anyhow, its all done!! Something was wrong with both subs, they were outlet specials so who knows?? I literally just plugged in the HSU VTF2s, the whole room shaking and AC vent in ceiling next shaking.
I definitely should've heard that minimum with PB 13s

We packed up the PB13 Ultras, I'll call SVS tomorrow to pick up.

I've decided what I will do is get 2 more HSU VTF2s and stack them. This will actually work best because I can fit the towers and VTF2s in the corner and not have to worry about the Emotiva T2s placement.

This was a total pain in the ass, but I just want to thank everybody for trying to help me. Trust me it is greatly appreciated.
I may have missed it but did you ever take any measurements to see what you were hearing? Those subs in outlet are new and I agree both of them having the same issue is unlikely. Did you spend time with SVS trying to optimize the sub settings? REW is critical to see what you are hearing IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #95
I may have missed it but did you ever take any measurements to see what you were hearing? Those subs in outlet are new and I agree both of them having the same issue is unlikely. Did you spend time with SVS trying to optimize the sub settings? REW is critical to see what you are hearing IMO.
Yes SVS tried to help with everything...at which point he said more than likely amp issue

they offered 3 things

1. send me amp, I install on both
2. send subs back, they install on both then return back to me
3. send subs back, they will send new subs back to me same time

Drivers weren't moving much, just vibrating....barely any sound coming from them and put ear right up to driver.
 

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Yes SVS tried to help with everything...at which point he said more than likely amp issue

they offered 3 things

1. send me amp, I install on both
2. send subs back, they install on both then return back to me
3. send subs back, they will send new subs back to me same time

Drivers weren't moving much, just vibrating....barely any sound coming from them and put ear right up to driver.
I would have given them another shot. The PB13 have a significant advantage over the VTF-15H under 35hz which was I thought you were chasing. For example the PB13 extends to 12.5hz at 89db and at 16hz has about a 10db advantage over the HSU and 5db at 20hz, that is huge...if you are not chasing lower frequencies then go for the PSA V1811. They will be easier to integrate.
 

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I'm not sure what else I could do?? I would take another SVS PB13 Ultra as they offered but at this point...I'm gun shy
While I can understand your hesitation after this whole fiasco, do know that as a whole, SVS equipment is generally regarded as being VERY reliable. Their amps and drivers are very well made and most people have no issues. It does make you wonder if something happened in transit. They are very heavy, so wouldn't be surprised if a package handler dropped them. Even if no damage was evident, and they are very well packed by SVS, I suppose it's still possible. Still crazy you ended up with TWO bad amps. Also, just so you know, SVS bench tests EVERY subwoofer at their facility in Ohio before they leave, so I can just about guarantee it left their shop in working order. There's good reason they have the best warranty in the business.

Also possible: Maybe they got nailed with a power surge? Are they protected? Maybe they weren't but your other gear was? I don't know. Just spitballing ideas at this point.

Either way, I really want your selection of new subs to work out for you. I'll admit, I'm biased as I am a dealer, but that's also why I believe the brand is so good as a whole. Anyhow, do what you gotta do, but it'd be awesome if you got the problem resolved before moving on all together. Just my $0.02.
 

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Discussion Starter #98
I would have given them another shot. The PB13 have a significant advantage over the VTF-15H under 35hz which was I thought you were chasing. For example the PB13 extends to 12.5hz at 89db and at 16hz has about a 10db advantage over the HSU and 5db at 20hz, that is huge...if you are not chasing lower frequencies then go for the PSA V1811. They will be easier to integrate.
completely agree, @mthomas47 was pretty convincing I should buy these so that's why I did get them. I just don't know what else I coulda done. I want to take them up on the offer to send me another pair, but what if same thing happens (not sub issue) but some other issue say AVR that I just cant figure out??

I'll think over weekend about trying this again with new pair of PB13s
 
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completely agree, @mthomas47 was pretty convincing I should buy these so that's why I did get them. I just don't know what else I coulda done. I want to take them up on the offer to send me another pair, but what if same thing happens (not sub issue) but some other issue say AVR that I just cant figure out??

I'll think over weekend about trying this again with new pair of PB13s
Yep, at the outlet price those are a great buy with minimal risk if any since its SVS...
 

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Discussion Starter #100
SVS is going to test the amps, then if I wanted they will ship new set of subs. I'm going to see what happens with amp testing then go from there...
 
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