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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,


Before moving into my new home about seven years ago I was the proud owner of an SVS PC12 subwoofer. However the new home with the layout that I have, the PC12 would not work, so I was forced to sell it, and I purchased an SB12 compact sub as, at the time, it was the only thing that would really work with our furniture layout in that area. The SB12 is currently set up close to the TV/entertainment center itself, literally wedged under an end-table.


Fast forward 6-7 years and I just upgraded my AVR to an Onkyo model with XT32 processing. Now I'm really feeling the fact that the SB-12 is not cutout for the large family room that we have (I had always known this to be the case but now it is incredibly apparent). I am getting nostalgic and missing that incredible bone crunching low bass level of the PC12.


The family room that has the modest HT in it (65" Panasonic Plasma, Boston mains and center, and ceiling installed Cambridge rears) is 22'X15'X9' for a total size of about 3000 cubic feet. It is worth pointing out that this large family area is also directly connected to other areas of the home, which has a very open floor plan. There is a 150' sq ft kitchen area directly behind the family area and the family area is also adjoined directly to an open foyer/entry/dining area, staircase to the basement, etc.


The proposed new location for the subwoofer would be in a "nook" of sorts that is behind the large family sectional in the room... but it is not in a room corner, it is a semi-open area. The SB12 is currently closer to a corner than this new proposed location, but the new location is the only one that would work without dramatically re-working the room layout, which for a variety of reasons is not really possible.


Would I get more bang for my buck upgrading to the very highly regarded PB12-Plus and simply selling my SB12 on Craigslist or would I be better off getting a 2nd SB12 and running the two subwoofers in tandem?


Thanks
 

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My understanding is a second sub stacked on top of the first will give you a 6 dB boost in output but won't play really deeper. If the sub is in a different spot, you get a 3 dB boost only, but obviously you get the benefit of smoother bass in all seating position with 2 subs. Someone else should confirm this in case I messed up the numbers.


Anyway, if you are looking for much deeper bass than what you have now, go with the PB12 plus or a Rhymik FV15 hp or a Hsu VTF 15.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
OK, thanks for the advice. Stacking would be possible but would result in something slightly taller than one of the new subs and I'm already going to get some heat from the wife on having a massive black box in the corner of the room.


I find it strange that none of these companies is any longer offering their larger ported box subs in a blonde wood finish, as that's what my SB12 has and it really helps it blend into the rest of the furniture/flooring in the room.
 

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Two SB12s will give you more output above somewhere between 25 to 30 hz. A PB12 or PC12 will will give you more output at and around its tuning point, 20 hz. Personally I would go for two SB12s over a single PB12.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1418849/svs-upgrade-advice-needed-2nd-sb12-or-pb12-plus#post_22193315


Two SB12s will give you more output above somewhere between 25 to 30 hz. A PB12 or PC12 will will give you more output at and around its tuning point, 20 hz. Personally I would go for two SB12s over a single PB12.

Maybe my understanding is wrong, but I don't see this as being true based on the numbers over at Audioholics. The SB12 ran between 104-108 dB from 40-125 Hz while the PB12 plus ran 114-115 dB. So adding 6 dB to the SB12 by stacking just barely equals the PB12. At 20 Hz the SB was 92 dB and the PB was up at 107 dB, a huge difference if he is going for more LFE during movies. The OP should verify with SVS.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer  /t/1418849/svs-upgrade-advice-needed-2nd-sb12-or-pb12-plus#post_22193386


Maybe my understanding is wrong, but I don't see this as being true based on the numbers over at Audioholics. The SB12 ran between 104-108 dB from 40-125 Hz while the PB12 plus ran 114-115 dB. So adding 6 dB to the SB12 by stacking just barely equals the PB12. At 20 Hz the SB was 92 dB and the PB was up at 107 dB, a huge difference if he is going for more LFE during movies. The OP should verify with SVS.

You are right, I missed the Plus part, I thought he wanted to know the differences between the NSD and SB12. Yes, two SB12s will not measure up to a PB12 Plus in almost anyway. I would definitely get a Plus over two SB12s. I need to read these things more carefully.
 

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If you are looking for more output and better extension, I'd get the PB12+. As mentioned above, two Sb12-NSD's (or one SB12-NSD and one SB12-Plus as it might be), won't match the larger, vented PB12 Plus at pretty much any frequency, and they would be smoked by the Plus near port tuning.


As far as aesthetics, I'm with you. I miss the wood grain finish options SVS used to offer. If your wife thinks the Plus is too large, show her the dimensions for the new Power Sound Audio dual 15", and the Plus will appear dainty in comparison.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have placed a cardboard box (funny enough the one that the SB12 came in) that is roughly the dimensions of the PB12-Plus in the spot I have in mind for the sub. We'll first see if she notices it on her own and then I can see if she has an objection to it.


It will be quite noticeable in the room unfortunately... it even has me considering if one of the ported cylinders won't actually be less obtrusive.
 

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I have both the SB and the plus. If HT is your priority, the PB-Plus is a monster down low. To me, the SB sounds better with music. I have been using both and seem to get good results, to my ears, but I have not measured anything yet.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1418849/svs-upgrade-advice-needed-2nd-sb12-or-pb12-plus#post_22193740


You are right, I missed the Plus part, I thought he wanted to know the differences between the NSD and SB12. Yes, two SB12s will not measure up to a PB12 Plus in almost anyway. I would definitely get a Plus over two SB12s. I need to read these things more carefully.

Funny, after I posted my response it occurred to me that you probably did that exact thing, since I can tell from your previous posts that you have a better idea then I do how these things work.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewTT  /t/1418849/svs-upgrade-advice-needed-2nd-sb12-or-pb12-plus#post_22193984


I have both the SB and the plus. If HT is your priority, the PB-Plus is a monster down low. To me, the SB sounds better with music. I have been using both and seem to get good results, to my ears, but I have not measured anything yet.

how does the Plus perform in its sealed or 16Hz mode relative to the SB?. Ed has said in the past there should be very little difference in running a PB12-Plus in its sealed mode vs a SB13
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi guys, so my wife is leaning towards the cylinder shape as being less of an eyesore in the furniture area where I would place a new sub. The PC12-Plus might be too tall so I am looking at the PC12-NSD. Could I mix the PC12-NSD with my SB12 (run both together)?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2  /t/1418849/svs-upgrade-advice-needed-2nd-sb12-or-pb12-plus#post_22195367


Hi guys, so my wife is leaning towards the cylinder shape as being less of an eyesore in the furniture area where I would place a new sub. The PC12-Plus might be too tall so I am looking at the PC12-NSD. Could I mix the PC12-NSD with my SB12 (run both together)?

If I was in your position I would call SVS and discuss running either SVS cylinder at the same time as a SB-12 NSD.


Also, I would simply show my wife how tall the PC-12 Plus is and not go into detail about the PC 12 NSD. Easy for me to say
 

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MultiEQ XT32 will help a lot with this. Most of the advice against using two different subs is that it is more difficult getting them to integrate well together. XT32 will EQ each of the subs separately.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have an 818 and unfortunately it does not do sub-eq of two subs. I called SVS and they were enthusiastic about running the smaller sealed sub in tandem with the ported cylinder. I will think it over and maybe order next week.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive  /t/1418849/svs-upgrade-advice-needed-2nd-sb12-or-pb12-plus#post_22195040


how does the Plus perform in its sealed or 16Hz mode relative to the SB?. Ed has said in the past there should be very little difference in running a PB12-Plus in its sealed mode vs a SB13

I've never ran the Plus in sealed mode. I run it at the 16hz mode. It sounds good to me. The AVR is able to EQ both individually. But like I said, I haven't measured anything yet, so who really knows....
 
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