I just found out that the Swan D2.1se are on sale at theaudioinsider for $499 for the piano black. I just ordered a pair for myself. There are several glowing reviews of this speaker elsewhere on this forum. I hope they are all they are claimed to be.
Swan D2.1se on sale for 499!
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Wow, quite the discount.
Has anyone here heard both this and Ascend Sierra-1s? Not looking for any disparaging remarks or "mine is better than yours"... just curious for comparative remarks.
I heard they look just fantastic. I know of someone who saw them at CES.
Has anyone here heard both this and Ascend Sierra-1s? Not looking for any disparaging remarks or "mine is better than yours"... just curious for comparative remarks.
I heard they look just fantastic. I know of someone who saw them at CES.
There was a comparison done when craigsub had his shootout a while back. The d2.1se was scored higher in that and that started a royal brouhaha on the forum. I dont know if they are really better than the sierra but they are at least competitive I guess.
The bruhaha was more about the sensitivity and attenuation rather than the speakers themselves. Like I mentioned, they are very different.
That's what prompted me to listen for myself. Some stuff was posted about that at the Ascend forum.
It is a great deal on the D2.1SE. Get them, and find a pair of Sierras to compare. Recertified natural finished Sierras were recently on sale...but I don't know if there are any more left.
The bruhaha was more about the sensitivity and attenuation rather than the speakers themselves. Like I mentioned, they are very different.
That's what prompted me to listen for myself. Some stuff was posted about that at the Ascend forum.
It is a great deal on the D2.1SE. Get them, and find a pair of Sierras to compare. Recertified natural finished Sierras were recently on sale...but I don't know if there are any more left.
I was at Craig's and own the Swan D2.1 SEs that were in the "audition demonstration." The Sierra's and D2.1SE's have different and unique audio signatures. Like everything else in this crazy hobby, they have different fans. Upstream electronics and room setting play an important role. In my particular second system the Swan's do very well. I will tell you I liked them over a pair of GMA Europa's I had and sold after living with them and the Swans for a couple of months.
Are they the final stop on the journey for the ideal stand-mount speaker...heck no. I am always engaged in the search and hunt, because it's fun.
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There was a lot written about these speakers here and in the January '08 Affordable Audio on-line magizine. As always, YMMV and I think both ID stores offer a 30-day audition guarantee (less shipping).
Good luck,
L
Are they the final stop on the journey for the ideal stand-mount speaker...heck no. I am always engaged in the search and hunt, because it's fun.
There was a lot written about these speakers here and in the January '08 Affordable Audio on-line magizine. As always, YMMV and I think both ID stores offer a 30-day audition guarantee (less shipping).
Good luck,
L
FYI, a comparsion between these 2 mentioned speakers can be found here http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...wans_d21se.htm
Ingbruno,
Just curious. You say that "upstream electronics and room setting play an important role". I am limited in regard to room setting as room dimensions and furniture can not be easily changed. But, I am curious what you mean by "upstream electronics"? Do you mean a high quality receiver or are you saying that much more expensive separates are required?
I am currently using the D2.1SE's along with an older Onkyo 7 series receiver and am curious what the min. requirement is for noticeable sound improvement.
Just curious. You say that "upstream electronics and room setting play an important role". I am limited in regard to room setting as room dimensions and furniture can not be easily changed. But, I am curious what you mean by "upstream electronics"? Do you mean a high quality receiver or are you saying that much more expensive separates are required?
I am currently using the D2.1SE's along with an older Onkyo 7 series receiver and am curious what the min. requirement is for noticeable sound improvement.
Rcdynes, I'm not sure what the minimum requirements would be, but I will tell you they like a lot of head room. I experimented with them on a Sony Receiver and they had a very small sound stage and sounded weak in the lower frequencies and thin overall. I have them hooked up to a Aragon 8008 bb and they can be played very loud without becoming dysfunctional. The other key area is source. An inexpensive cdp/dvd such as the Oppo will provide a lesser overall sound signature than something like a Rega, Lector, Cambridge Audio, Wadia, Naim or whatever CDP. Using a seperate DAC such as the Benchmark, PS Audio or Bel Canto with a decent transport (sorry the Oppo is not up to the task) will provide excellent results too. These speakers will let you know when you change something.
Usp1, the Emotiva should do just fine. I was at a friend's home this past weekend (2 1/2 hours away) and he uses the Emotiva with a pair of AV123 Strata Mini's. Kinnithy, sorry but I have not done a comparison with the Mini's. Had this discussion been a week earlier, I would have transported them to my friend's place. In this comparison, I would've had to take my sub too to make it a fairer contest.
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However, you realize these are two entirely differenct designs, so comparing their sound presentations would be like comparing the ride on a Yamaha Scooter to a Ducati Motorcycle. Both have two wheels, can get you from point A to B, be loads of fun, but ohhhhh how different the journey would be. On some days I would prefer the Scooter and others the Motorcycle and be just as happy. I would speculate there would be an extreme difference in sound eminating for each pair.
The room I have these set up in is a challenge too. The room (finished basement) is 12.5' x 34' and the middle of the room has a ceiling height of only 7' 1". The speakers are set up on the short wall well away from the front wall. Seating area is well away from the rear wall. I have used rigid fiberglass sound treatement panels to get an effective overall sound presentation. These speakers like to have the first reflection on the side walls treated with at least 2" rigid FG, bass traps due to having a little bump in my room, and 2" ceiling panels (I refer to as clouds) at the first reflection spot due to it being on the lower ceiling.
I hope this is helpful information.
Usp1, the Emotiva should do just fine. I was at a friend's home this past weekend (2 1/2 hours away) and he uses the Emotiva with a pair of AV123 Strata Mini's. Kinnithy, sorry but I have not done a comparison with the Mini's. Had this discussion been a week earlier, I would have transported them to my friend's place. In this comparison, I would've had to take my sub too to make it a fairer contest.
The room I have these set up in is a challenge too. The room (finished basement) is 12.5' x 34' and the middle of the room has a ceiling height of only 7' 1". The speakers are set up on the short wall well away from the front wall. Seating area is well away from the rear wall. I have used rigid fiberglass sound treatement panels to get an effective overall sound presentation. These speakers like to have the first reflection on the side walls treated with at least 2" rigid FG, bass traps due to having a little bump in my room, and 2" ceiling panels (I refer to as clouds) at the first reflection spot due to it being on the lower ceiling.
I hope this is helpful information.
Thanks for the link. Owning the Sierras, it gives a good idea of the 2.1 but for someone not having heard the Sierra it might not be that clear. Some more comments here , again seeming to be in line with the enjoy review. Sounds like a good deal at that price, especially for those who prefer a warmish sound!
Thanks for the link. Owning the Sierras, it gives a good idea of the 2.1 but for someone not having heard the Sierra it might not be that clear. Some more comments here , again seeming to be in line with the enjoy review. Sounds like a good deal at that price, especially for those who prefer a warmish sound!
rcdynes - I have swan 5.1s right now and I can tell you that when I switched from my onkyo receiver to using the onkyo as a pre/pro and the lpa1 as my amp there was a noticeable difference in sound quality. Everything seemed to improve- airier highs, clearer mids and more controlled bass. I presume that this will be even more so for the d2.1se.
ingbruno - man I wish you had not mentioned oppo (since that is what I am running) now you started the upradeitis wheel running in my head again. Dedicated cdp, external dac, better pre....must resist.
ingbruno - man I wish you had not mentioned oppo (since that is what I am running) now you started the upradeitis wheel running in my head again. Dedicated cdp, external dac, better pre....must resist.
I also was at Craig's bookself shootout and the Sierra and the Swans were the two best speakers there IMHO. I liked the Swans ever so slightly more when in the sweet spot but preferred the Sierra's anywhere off axis. I felt that the Sierra's had better off axis and dispersion of sound.
The Emotiva amps are very good for the price. I use them both for my HT and 2CH systems.
Lou next time you will have to bring the Swans with you so we can compare them to the Mini's.
The Emotiva amps are very good for the price. I use them both for my HT and 2CH systems.
Lou next time you will have to bring the Swans with you so we can compare them to the Mini's.
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Always interesting how threads develop among dedicated listeners...
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I'm happy to see TAI friends and Swan D2.1se owners present and accounted for!
At any rate, perhaps readers will allow me to answer a few questions pertinent to this design, and if they don't mind, maybe I can add some personal thoughts and insights about it as well.
With a year's experience behind this model, I think it's safe to now suggest that the D2.1se appears to offer the audiophile the somewhat more traditional 2-channel experience, one where a single pair of 6.5"-based high-power stand monitor 2-ways can, when driven with commensurately excellent electronics and sources, develop a bona fide, powerful soundstage, complete with height, width, depth, and weight, and including a sense of each instrument (from within great recordings) occupying it's own "envelope" of air or space.
Whether or not this is customary for designs in the broad market built specifically for home theater and/or driven with budget HT electronics, or even designs built to a specific objective measurement goal, is frankly unknown to me, but in my view on the D2.1se it speaks to the refined stereo experience -- at TAI, this is the effect we were striving for in the original spec. We freely admit to seeking the listener's visceral, emotional reaction -- I'm not sure who said it, but IIRC the D2.1se once struck him as "the 30 year-old Scotch" of the genre. Hopefully, this design is about musical pleasure (at least as best we can deliver it at the given value level -- the retail shops were only occasionally populated with comparable designs, IMHO, costing $1000/pr back in the late Eighties...and in '80's dollars.)
And yes, D2.1se's naturally then sound something like what you drive them with -- that being among their mandates -- probably questioning the choice of a sub-$399 receiver (with a few exceptions). I recommend that any 85dB design (measured anechoically and therefore w/o room gain) be driven with a high-current design, or an amplifier that doubles or nearly doubles its power into four ohms. The D2.1se is not a particularly reactive design, but at 85dB or thereabouts, it naturally likes a bit of "drive" behind it, especially when you want to explore it's ample power rating, one made possible by the oversized voice coils and ventilated motors. The Emotiva's mentioned in this thread certainly qualify. D2.1se's can go thereby "big" when pressed.
In sum, the D2.1se is voiced not only to be measurably flat within typical spec, but to have the voicing "trim" that grants it, users report, that dimensional picture on the performance. In that regard I personally find them to more resemble speakers from back when for-music designs were first measured and then rigorously voiced by ear. And as Ingbruno notes above, "these speakers will let you know when you change something." Part of the D2.1se's intended design goal includes lowered motor distortion and damped moving assemblies, the resultant "blackness between the notes" of which should typify the design school. Changing something else upstream likely changes them -- not always dramatically, but still as it should be.
It's a different effect, to be sure, and one that not all may find immediately familiar. I'm probably showing my age here, but it is personally refreshing to be back in the saddle with a design style my group spent many hours refining back as early as 1983 (driven by $20k+ systems, I have to confess) and one I'd like to explore once again later this year.
Lastly, I'd mentioned quite some time ago that at TAI we'd like to apply that design experience to a Signature version of this same model. I've had a very busy year (including, I'm happy to report, a daughter safely and happily off to college this fall and a recent reduction in my CML disease load of 10x, both of which are huge reliefs) but following a personal move to a new studio in about 45 days, I expect to finally follow through on my promise and release a limited instance of this basic model (yes, mods will be retro-fitable). In short, I'll be installing hand-wired electronics behind the D2.1se's cabinet and drivers, including silver, teflon-in-foil, and wound foil, together with my version of the filter geometries I think more deeply explore "organic" sound.
So, many and sincere thanks for the bandwidth to express these somewhat more personal thoughts and inspirations, folks, and I stand by for any and all assistance that we at TAI can provide. We've made many friends over the last few years and we truly enjoy doing what we do. Ultimately, as the man said, it's only audio. To which I'd add, which should be about serving the music!
At any rate, perhaps readers will allow me to answer a few questions pertinent to this design, and if they don't mind, maybe I can add some personal thoughts and insights about it as well.
With a year's experience behind this model, I think it's safe to now suggest that the D2.1se appears to offer the audiophile the somewhat more traditional 2-channel experience, one where a single pair of 6.5"-based high-power stand monitor 2-ways can, when driven with commensurately excellent electronics and sources, develop a bona fide, powerful soundstage, complete with height, width, depth, and weight, and including a sense of each instrument (from within great recordings) occupying it's own "envelope" of air or space.
Whether or not this is customary for designs in the broad market built specifically for home theater and/or driven with budget HT electronics, or even designs built to a specific objective measurement goal, is frankly unknown to me, but in my view on the D2.1se it speaks to the refined stereo experience -- at TAI, this is the effect we were striving for in the original spec. We freely admit to seeking the listener's visceral, emotional reaction -- I'm not sure who said it, but IIRC the D2.1se once struck him as "the 30 year-old Scotch" of the genre. Hopefully, this design is about musical pleasure (at least as best we can deliver it at the given value level -- the retail shops were only occasionally populated with comparable designs, IMHO, costing $1000/pr back in the late Eighties...and in '80's dollars.)
And yes, D2.1se's naturally then sound something like what you drive them with -- that being among their mandates -- probably questioning the choice of a sub-$399 receiver (with a few exceptions). I recommend that any 85dB design (measured anechoically and therefore w/o room gain) be driven with a high-current design, or an amplifier that doubles or nearly doubles its power into four ohms. The D2.1se is not a particularly reactive design, but at 85dB or thereabouts, it naturally likes a bit of "drive" behind it, especially when you want to explore it's ample power rating, one made possible by the oversized voice coils and ventilated motors. The Emotiva's mentioned in this thread certainly qualify. D2.1se's can go thereby "big" when pressed.
In sum, the D2.1se is voiced not only to be measurably flat within typical spec, but to have the voicing "trim" that grants it, users report, that dimensional picture on the performance. In that regard I personally find them to more resemble speakers from back when for-music designs were first measured and then rigorously voiced by ear. And as Ingbruno notes above, "these speakers will let you know when you change something." Part of the D2.1se's intended design goal includes lowered motor distortion and damped moving assemblies, the resultant "blackness between the notes" of which should typify the design school. Changing something else upstream likely changes them -- not always dramatically, but still as it should be.
It's a different effect, to be sure, and one that not all may find immediately familiar. I'm probably showing my age here, but it is personally refreshing to be back in the saddle with a design style my group spent many hours refining back as early as 1983 (driven by $20k+ systems, I have to confess) and one I'd like to explore once again later this year.
Lastly, I'd mentioned quite some time ago that at TAI we'd like to apply that design experience to a Signature version of this same model. I've had a very busy year (including, I'm happy to report, a daughter safely and happily off to college this fall and a recent reduction in my CML disease load of 10x, both of which are huge reliefs) but following a personal move to a new studio in about 45 days, I expect to finally follow through on my promise and release a limited instance of this basic model (yes, mods will be retro-fitable). In short, I'll be installing hand-wired electronics behind the D2.1se's cabinet and drivers, including silver, teflon-in-foil, and wound foil, together with my version of the filter geometries I think more deeply explore "organic" sound.
So, many and sincere thanks for the bandwidth to express these somewhat more personal thoughts and inspirations, folks, and I stand by for any and all assistance that we at TAI can provide. We've made many friends over the last few years and we truly enjoy doing what we do. Ultimately, as the man said, it's only audio. To which I'd add, which should be about serving the music!
Thanks for all the feedback re: required equipment. Unfortunately thats all the news I (my wallet) was hoping to avoid. Due to the aged nature of my receiver, It looks like I will have to buy an updated receiver to take full advantage of all the new audio formats and based on the feedback here, it looks like I will not get the most out of the speakers without running a dedicated amp. Looks like its time to start saving........
Although, that being said, I do seriously enjoy the D2.1SE's, even with my antiquated equipment (mid to late 90's). And, I am continuously impressed by the finish quality. They are simply gorgeous speakers.
Ingbruno, if I had any room whatsoever for stand mounted rear speakers, I would take you up on your offer. That is a great offer!
Although, that being said, I do seriously enjoy the D2.1SE's, even with my antiquated equipment (mid to late 90's). And, I am continuously impressed by the finish quality. They are simply gorgeous speakers.
Ingbruno, if I had any room whatsoever for stand mounted rear speakers, I would take you up on your offer. That is a great offer!
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