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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was checking out gamespot and I read in the rumor mill about the latest patch in swat 4. Aparently it contacts an advertising site and plugs in advertisements into the in game posters. I did a search and found this.
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/advertising/index.php


I wonder if it is true. Seems logical that games would become advertising machines like movies are starting to become.


Xmen 2 has an entire scene in the kitchen which is a Dr. Pepper commercial. Not even subtle. Now when I play a game I guess I'm going to be tracked and targeted for advertising as I play. I imagine that we will see more and more science fiction and fantasy games cancelled because you can't in game advertise very well with those settings.


I wonder how far in game advertising will go. I realize this isn't new, but it seems that it will only go even more downhill from here.
 

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I think this a GOOD thing. In the real world there is advertisement. Therefore, advertising will make the games more realistic.
 

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I can see in game posters etc. being marginally acceptable in the right situations (I don't bash HBO for putting Rolling Rock etc. all over the Sopranos), but the between level billboards would be a bit much.


Unless of course they work out a deal to offset the game cost by including commercials, but I don't see that happening.


What would you guys think of nextgen games being sold at $30, but with 'commercial breaks' between levels, and imbedded advertising in the games?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So you think that a game that connects to an advertising web site and downloads advertisements into your game is a good thing? Is tracking the amount of time each add is in your view also a good thing so you can be better targeted? Developers will start getting more and more money from advertisers which will lead to more and more bombardment with that crap, as well as tracking in ways that cannot be done on a television.


In fact, since television viewing is going down, and tivos are impacting that, games seems like the perfect areas for massive advertising expansion. That can't be good for games.


Do you think designing games around the advertisements is a good thing? How about designing small in game scenes around products? That's next. Is that a good thing?


I don't think the imbedded advertising is a good thing for gaming because it will lead to games being developed around the advertising and they will go from being subtle to more annoyingly obvious. A few background posters, okay I can live with that, but tracking and updating the adds everytime I play is going a bit over the top for me.
 

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Movies have had product placement for years and for the most part movies are not wrapped around a box of cheerios. it's a matter of just being there on the table.


For developers I think this could be a way to generate revenue. I'm not so sure I want ads being updated via the internet though. I don't want updates and time consuming bandwith just so they can have their product in front of me.

But I can see a character going to a vending machine and it having Cocacola on the label. that's not a problem as far as I am concerned.


As far as commercial breaks between, that would be insulting unless they give me the games for free like broadcast television. As it is i am insulted by commercials in the movie theater after I paid to get in. The local slide show ads are ok but the actual coke and car ads I can live without.
 

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Ultimately the marketplace will decide what is acceptable as far as advertising is concerned. The ads before the movie starts are a good example of going too far. There has been a backlash against this and I believe in New York City they passed a law saying that theaters must publish the time the film REALLY starts or get a huge fine.


Like I said, seeing some billboards for real products in a game is really cool to me. It adds to the realism and immersion. Burnout 2 had some real ads in it and nobody complained. And as far as the new ads downloading and "eating up bandwidth" gimme a break. It sounds like somebody needs to upgrade their 56k and get broadband. And if you don't want Them to "track" you with their insidious advertisments try putting aluminum foil on your windows. ; )
 

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I just can't believe that advertisers have yet to realize that their ads are costing them more money than they make from them. I personally don't know a single person who goes out to buy a bag of Doritos or logs into Gamefly simply because they saw an ad for it. As far as realism goes, in-game advertising like that in Swat 4 adds an interesting dimension to the game, all the while the gamer couldn't care less about the actual product being advertised.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
But the problem is, the advertising is going beyond product placement. Scripts are being written around products. In Xmen 2 there is a scene that revolves entirely around a Dr. Pepper. It is basically an advertisement in the middle of the movie. In the scene the freeze guy chills a warm Dr. Pepper for one of the new mutants. The camera angles are on that Dr. Pepper the entire time until it takes a central resting spot with top of the bottle label standing straight out filling the bottom of the screen. How cool to have your warm soda chilled by mr freeze! That's an advertisement.


As for developers, majority of these deals will be done through the publisher, not the developer. The publishers will then, as a condition for publishing the game, insist on certain products being placed in the game, or worse, insisting on certain scripted scenes which showcase the product. I doubt this revenue will help the little guy publishers a whole lot.
 

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And as far as the new ads downloading and "eating up bandwidth" gimme a break. It sounds like somebody needs to upgrade their 56k and get broadband.


Ouch
. Slapped me across the face....


On the contrary, I have a really fast connection but why should my internet downloads be allocated for their advertising? My pipe isn't for their incoming ads. That was my point.
 

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Sorry for being a smarty-pants, Dean.


If the advertising scheme causes performance problems that would be really bad. If the game makers are smart, any kind of updates for advertising will be miniscule compared to the traffic from playing online.


Remember that some of the best stuff on the web, like Google, are ad based. My point is that, while poorly done ads can hurt the gaming experience, if done properly they can enhance the experience.
 

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I dont mind in-game advertising until it becomes obvious or obtrusive.


Example: The first movie I really NOTICED product placement was T2. Subway had paid big bucks and there is a looong shot in the middle of a guy eating a subway, with a giant subway cup taking up a good portion of the screen....its so blatently obvious that I said "dear god thats annoying".


Now movies of days gone by, someone grabs a coke, a whisky, whatever....you caught the brand in passing. Today, its like the object is featured full-frame...with the label unobstructed and clearly facing towards the camera...its like "Give me a break!".


Some other film I watched recently had nothing but Heinikens all over the place.....can't remember which movie.


I'm sure Games will catch up to this eventually......downloading bitmaps to update ads sounds cool, especially when someone hacks the system and your game suddenly starts displaying Asian porn where a "coke" billboard used to be :D
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris5977
Sorry for being a smarty-pants, Dean.


If the advertising scheme causes performance problems that would be really bad. If the game makers are smart, any kind of updates for advertising will be miniscule compared to the traffic from playing online.


Remember that some of the best stuff on the web, like Google, are ad based. My point is that, while poorly done ads can hurt the gaming experience, if done properly they can enhance the experience.
Every once in a while I could use a good crack. To quote My cousin Vinny, "I'll be truthful with you I could use a good @@@ kicking".


I was being kind of technical because Im thinking of them using my bandwith/my DSL line like telemarketers use my phone line for their gain. Like pop ups and spam too I guess Im just tired of being innundated at their convenience and my expense.
 

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Quote:
Example: The first movie I really NOTICED product placement was T2. Subway had paid big bucks and there is a looong shot in the middle of a guy eating a subway, with a giant subway cup taking up a good portion of the screen....its so blatently obvious that I said "dear god thats annoying".
Which scene was that?
 

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I agre with Chris 100% on this. You don't want to pay $60 a game but at the same time you want to obstruct a way they can make some extra revenue.


Games can sometimes seem lifeless and seeing a real Coke machine, or a movie poster for an upcoming film in something like Deus Ex or Dead to Rights would definitely add to the environment imo. And c'mon, a 50kb bmp of a movie poster or some other wall ad won't kill anyone's bandwidth.


For the record some user-created maps I download in my favorite online games have posters on the walls depicting anything from funny, fake ads to their favorite movies, and I have to say it adds a pretty cool touch to the game. Kinda makes me forget I'm playing something old. ;)


However if they start touching Zelda and Mario I think they'll be biting off more than they can chew. :eek:

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I personally don't know a single person who goes out to buy a bag of Doritos or logs into Gamefly simply because they saw an ad for it.
This is a whole other subject but I can tell you you are dead wrong on this. It's all about brand recognition and subliminal messages. Thanks to their ads, when I want to start a game renting service I'll check out Gamefly. If I'm in the chips aisle in the supermarket I may tend to get a bag of Doritos simply because the name is familiar to me. It's not about spontaneously wanting a product RIGHT NOW becaues you just saw the ad, much of it is for later when you're trying to decide between this brand or that.


Millions of dollars are invested for this type of marketing. They know our buying habits better than we do. :)
 

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Originally Posted by Scotty L
This is a whole other subject but I can tell you you are dead wrong on this. It's all about brand recognition and subliminal messages. Thanks to their ads, when I want to start a game renting service I'll check out Gamefly. If I'm in the chips aisle in the supermarket I may tend to get a bag of Doritos simply because the name is familiar to me. It's not about spontaneously wanting a product RIGHT NOW becaues you just saw the ad, much of it is for later when you're trying to decide between this brand or that.


Millions of dollars are invested for this type of marketing. They know our buying habits better than we do. :)
I was simply saying that excess ads are a waste of money, and I fully recognize that it is a whole different matter than what was previously discussed. What good is it to constantly beat into a non-simpleton's mind that their products are available? If your buying habits are influenced mainly by the many TV and in-game commercials and not influenced at all by the aggregate existence of all brands of certain products, then you are simply a tool of these big businesses. Sure you look up the product, but you also see what else is available on the market by searching and not being faced with constant commercial messages. Perhaps there are more tools than I am led to believe, but you just have to admit that many advertisers advertise to excess where the message is way overstated.


There is a disgusting amount of overweight and obese Americans who sometimes think McDonalds hamburgers and not even consider lesser-known options of the same type of food whenever they are in the mood for a hamburger. But it is a waste of money at this point for McDonalds to spend more money in many more methods of advertising when every conscious being in this overweight and obese-laden nation knows of McDonalds. In fact, many people looking for their daily fat injection will try other and lesser-known fast food chains, maybe out of desperation due to availability of other places. Those who want low fat options and don't want their ass to grow to the size of Texas will look at low fat options, and find what is the most healthy and best tasting option for them through experimentation. Even when considering only the healthy options, advertising doesn't have the tremendous impact that many swear by.


Just because millions of dollars are spent on researching peoples' purchasing habits doesn't mean that corporations can actually pinpoint the majority's buying habits. The extreme amount of money spent in Superbowl advertising costs a corporation more money than the subliminal message that is put forth. This loss in money isn't noticed when they are still making a tremendous profit off of people who buy their products simply because their product does taste the best, and/or is the cheapest. I don't know ScottyL, maybe you do purchase a well-advertised brand of a product without trying anything else, but there are many who search for the lowest price, the best taste, and/or the most healthy. All I can tell you is that in-game ads that don't affect performance do add neat realism to games, but by how much do these subliminal messages really affect us? You can believe whatever corporate knob or statistician leads you to believe, but extreme amounts of advertising doesn't neccessarily mean extremely more business than normal.


Sorry if I offended any overweight or obese people, but you may want to try healthier options. After all, corporate airplanes can't even accomodate us.;)
 

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I don't know ScottyL, maybe you do purchase a well-advertised brand of a product without trying anything else, but there are many who search for the lowest price, the best taste, and/or the most healthy
When we're talking Doritos vs. Shopper's Food Warehouse Brand I don't do anymore research than pick the one I'm familiar with. I see what you're trying to say though (and I disagree :)).


An old Microeconomics professor I had used to be head manager of a big supermarket. He said one week when an advertisement flyer didn't go out showcasing what products were on sale they lost thousands of dollars to the competition. When Dominoes shows their 2xTuesdays commercials on Mondays and Tuesdays their sales almost double. That's just one side of it though. Brand recognition is the important factor.


I guess this is something you actually have to experience to believe, otherwise it just sounds too far-fetched.
 

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I don't know if we necessarily want to 'obstruct' their advertising but limit it to ways that are least intrusive.

Ads on a web page=ok

Pop up ads=no
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
When you are watching tv and an advertisement comes on, you know its and add. You can put your guard up. What is happening more and more with time is, advertising isn't in a separate little space as a commercial or a separate slot at the beginning of a movie. They are now heavily imbedded within the shows and movies, and now I guess games are a target. When they are imbedded you no longer see them as advertisements and you have to view them or pass them as you play or watch. You are a captive audience to them and your guard is down because you are not viewing them as adds even though they are.


Scotty is very right on brand recognition. It affects everyone even if you don't believe it does.


Anyone see that documentary movie called Supersize me? Its about a man who ate nothing but McDonalds for 30 days. There was a short segment on children and brand recognition that was pretty interesting. They showed some children pictures of some American Icons that most adults should recognize. They showed the statue of liberty, picture of George Washington, an iconic picture of Jesus, the Wendy girl from the fast food restaurant, and Ronald McDonald, Barnie, Winnie the Pooh among others. Not one kid did not recognize Ronald. They even talked about the food at McDonalds when they saw the image.


They also found some random adults and asked them to say the words from the National Anthem and some other patriotic songs if I remember correctly. Many could not get all the words. Then they started on some popular commercial jingles they would know from their childhood and they remember them easily. We are literally being educated through the constant iconic advertising around us.


It is a documentary not a scientific study, but I would venture to say that Ronald McDonald is the most recognizable image to children around the world.


I agree with Dean that I'll accept some advertising if it is kept within an acceptable space, but once it becomes intrusive, I get irritated by it. Advertising will continue to push the limits of what we think of as intrusive, until it begins to have a negative affect on us. The problem is, too many people are getting too used to this intrusive advertising, think its okay, and don't object to it. This is a green light for advertisers to push even further.
 

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Originally Posted by Mash
They also found some random adults and asked them to say the words from the National Anthem and some other patriotic songs if I remember correctly. Many could not get all the words. Then they started on some popular commercial jingles they would know from their childhood and they remember them easily. We are literally being educated through the constant iconic advertising around us.
Yes but this isn't a revelation.....where do you hear the Star Spangled banner being sung? Baseball games? Where else.....? you get hit with advertising 24/7.


Its not education, its just imprinting.......

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It is a documentary not a scientific study, but I would venture to say that Ronald McDonald is the most recognizable image to children around the world.
At least one of them, and the familiar "Coke wave" on the Coca-Cola cans. But this isn't surprising because we are constantly exposed to ads, and even the cleaned-up kids programming (oh how I miss my GI Joe and Xformers and MASK 1/2 hour toy commercials..I mean shows..) :D, there is still tons of advertising aimed at kids. Cereals and local events and stuff. When you're 6, 7, 8 you fall for that stuff.


HOPEFULLY you outgrow it, but its to be expected that kids want what they see on TV. They want "Lunchables" and Alpha-Bits with the baking-soda submarine toy inside. I had my mom buy cereal many a time to get at an advertised prize, even if I hated the cereal. Of course I was like 7....


The key here is to be the smart parent that DOESNT take their kids to McDonalds every day, and DOESNT buy their kids Lunchables (seriously, that stuff is just wrong).


Magazines are at least 1/2 advertising, TV is 40 minutes of programming (with imbedded ads) and 20 full minutes of overt advertising. Movies (Including DVD's) now start with ads (forget movie trailers, these are just frickin ADS) and are loaded with product-placement ads.


Seriously if I see another movie ad from BMW where they proclaim "YOu saw the car in the movie, now DRIVE IT YOURSELF!"...like..WTF...>?
Quote:
I agree with Dean that I'll accept some advertising if it is kept within an acceptable space, but once it becomes intrusive, I get irritated by it. Advertising will continue to push the limits of what we think of as intrusive, until it begins to have a negative affect on us. The problem is, too many people are getting too used to this intrusive advertising, think its okay, and don't object to it. This is a green light for advertisers to push even further.
Well I dont mind advertising if its not OVERT. Meaning the BMW ad above. You place a BMW in a movie, thats fine.....Men In Black II had that Mercedes. But to me, the way they worked it out, I never really considered it an advertisement for Mercedes.


But if you film it the wrong way, or have the stars talking about the car, or you see Mercedes billboards and Mercedes advertisements everywhere...and all the billboards look brand new and all the products look extra shiney...that to me is just too overt and obvious.


Today its reached a point where every city bus has pristine, perfect advertising intact on the side...and if it doesn't, its got a logo or sign thats digitally blurred-out or something! :p
 
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