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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm interesting in switching my DirecTV setup over to HD DirecTV. So here goes...


Current setup:

Sony 18" dual LNB dish mounted on side of house, with 2 RG-6 cables running 90 feet underground (protected in PVC pipe) to distribution closet. Those cables are connected in the closet to a Channel Master 6214IFD 3x4 amplified multiswitch. From there, 3 RG-6 cables go to receivers throughout the house, each run approximately 100 feet. The recievers are 1 older Sony on a NTSC TV, and 1 RCA UltimateTV (dual tuner) on a Mitsubishi HDTV.


Now here come the questions for my BIG switch...


Obviously I'll need a new Oval dish to receive the 101 & 119 birds and a new HD receiver. I am considering puchasing the RCA DirecTV Plus Oval dish. From the RCA wiring diagrams, it looks as though 4 RG-6 Cables must first be routed from the LNBs to the supplied 4x4 multiswitch, then 1 cable to each receiver. However I'd prefer NOT to dig up my existing 2 underground cables just to add 2 more.


1. Is there any way to use my existing 2 RG-6 underground cables from the dish to the distribution closet? Perhaps mount the 4x4 multiswitch directly on the back of the dish? Are there any approved outdoor 4x4 multiswitches?


2. Is there a better Oval dish available that has the multiswitch built in somehow? Sony perhaps?


2. I also understand that all multiswitches have to be 22khz capable for the HD receiver. Anyone know if my brand new Channel Master 6214IFD amplified multiswitch is 22khz capable?


3. Anything else I should be aware of?


4. Ultimately would this setup work:

RCA DirecTV Plus Oval dish. 4 RG-6 cables running 2 feet from LNBs to the 4x4 multiswitch mounted on the back of the dish somehow. Then from the 4x4 multiswitch are 2 90 feet RG-6 cables to the distribution closet. Those cables are connected in the closet to my Channel Master 6214IFD amplified multiswitch, followed by each 100 foot run to UltimateTV & HD receivers. Am I crazy???


5. Can I somehow work an OTA antenna into the above setup? Maybe the Terk dish-mount antenna? Can it receive HDTV broadcasts?



Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I know I'm asking a LOT of questions, but I do appreciate everyone's input!

Robert
 

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1st an aside: If you can, you will do better by adding a 2nd 18" dish to see the 119 instead of replacing yours with an oval. The oval is a compromise and will see less signal from each bird than if you're using separate dishes for each bird.


Anyway, there are outdoor multiswitches, and they would work for your app. Also, you could ignore the dual LNBs and attach only one cable to each dish (or LNB block, if oval). with this approach, you only use the 2 underground cables you already have and use a new multiswitch indoors to merge and distribute the signals for housewide distribution.


AFAIK, the whole point of the dual LNBs is so that you can drive 2 receivers without having to buy a multiswitch, there's no reason not to do all the splitting with a multiswitch (other than the expense of the bigger multiswitch).


jake


PS. I have seen multiswitches that will also modulate an antenna input into the cable. You need a special splitter at each receiver to break the signal back into it's satellite and antenna components.
 

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Jake Hall, noted your comments about dual LNB to avoid multi switch. Had a conversation with a distributor, at a 2nd annual high end HT installer's party. Now bare in mind here, I am an old C band person, so I know a little about LNB's , etc. I was asking him about 2 dishes versus elipitical. I explained to him that I was told that on a dual LNB, one is 18 mghtz, other is 22 mghtz, and if you buy 2 separate rounds, you cant get the 22 mghtz separate. When I mentioned this to this distributor, he explained to me that on a dual LBD/oval dish, the multiswith on th back does the switching from 18-22 mghtz. He also recommended putting the multiswitch inside, not on the back of the dish. Then he also said , that the new eliptical dishes, with 3 LNB's ( to pick up the now 3rd satellite??) are designed a little bit different. Something about a plastic design holder?? Shed any light on all of this? IN LAYMAN"S WORDS< PLEASE!! Who manufactures the "new" 3 LNB dishes?? thanks
 

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PTS,

The "new" dish that picks up three sats is the oval dish you already mentioned. There is space on the arm for a third LNB. The Sat-C kit has a special LNB and switch to hook in to the system. It will pick up North Carolina locals on DirecTV. Some people use a regular LNB and some more switches to pick up both Dish and DirecTV using one dish.


jakehall,

I may be mis-reading your message but you have to connect both outputs from each LNB to the multi-switch for it to work properly.


-Robert
 

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well,


I don't know much about the exact technical details but...


I know people are using 2 18" dishes and combining them with 4x2 and 4x4 multiswitches. If using 4x2, then the setup goes like this:

Sat A LNB 1 + Sat A LNB 2 + Sat B LNB 1 + Sat B LNB 2 --> Combined Sat A+B 1 and Combined A+B 2. AFAIK you can use a 4x4 switch to get 4 combined outputs instead of 2.


Also, I know people who've had 1 LNB setups who use a multiswitch to distribute to multiple receivers.


As I understand it multiswitches can function as signal combiners as well as splitters. Either merging 2 satellite signals (18kHz & 22kHz) into 1 cable or splitting 1 satellite into 2 cables, or both. I believe the 18 vs 22kHz is a question of satellite 101 vs 119 not which output you choose on a dual LNB. On dual LNB, both outputs should be identical, there is no special circuitry that shifts the signal into the 22kHz range.


jake
 

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robert,


my last post went before I saw yours. You may very well be right. I have a very good technical mind and am drawing conclusions from my understanding of the systems and my experience working with friends who all have different satellite setups.


I don't know anyone who uses two dishes, single LNBs and multiple receivers; but I know a few using some combination of those factors and am extrapolating from that experience.


jake
 

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I had an 18" dish and went with the oval cause I did not want two dishes in my roof, the results were very good. I live about 15 miles from downtown LA and my signals are very strong. I always have over 70 from the 119 sat and over 80 from the 101. We dont have that much bad weather here in southern CA so I am not worried about rain faid or anything liek that. My signals dont even change when the day is very coloudy. Good luck on what ever you decide.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the input everyone!


A second dish, while a great option, doesn't "look" all that great. My wife would kill me! Plus it sounds like the 2nd dish wouldn't necessarily receive the HD broadcast, as only an Oval dish with the proper LNB can handle this. So I'll skip this option for now.


So if I understand things correctly, if I were to buy the Channel Master 6904IFD01 (an outdoor rated, 4x4 switch) and mount it on the back of the dish, all should be well? Use my existing cables as they are, just plug in my new HD receiver, and voila?


Thanks!

Robert
 

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My advice, get the SONY SAT-AN24 oval dish. it is the same private labeled channelmaster oval dish as the RCA DSA8900E but retails for $70.00 less 129.95 vs. 199.95. Both come with a multiswitch and two dual LNB's and four 18" RG-6 acbles to connect the LNB's to the multiswitch

the multiswitch that comes with the dish is meant to mount to the back of the dish, mine is not an outdoor rated unit but it has done fine for two years outside with moderate rains in the san fransisco area
 

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Robert,


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you have to have more than 2 cables coming into the house, regardless of where your multiswitch is located. I don't think you have any other option.


I just went through this same thing. I ended up putting up a second dish. Click on the second link below, and you will find a couple of wiring diagrams. Look at setup 104. This is what I did.

Fortunately for me, my additional cables were easy to run.


http://www.geocities.com/dbs_tech/

http://www.geocities.com/dbs_tech/mdsapp/twodish.htm



The problem is that all receivers must be connected directly to a multiswitch. You can't take the output of one multiswitch and run it through another multiswitch, and then to a receiver.


The only exception to the above is with a 22kHz switch. This is technically not a multiswitch. The 22kHz switch is a device used to switch between satellites. When you turn to a channel that is on the 119 sat, the receiver sends a 22kHz tone out, and the 22kHz switch then grabs the signal coming from the lnb aimed at 119. When you tune to a channel on the 101 sat, there is no 22kHz tone and the 22kHz switch then grabs the signal coming from the lnb aimed at 101.


A multiswitch is different in the fact that it is used to switch between odd and even transponders on a single satellite. When a multiswitch is hooked up to a dual lnb dish, you must have both lnb's connected to the multiswitch in order to get all of the channels (odd and even).



One thing I might suggest is to go get a box of pull line (sometimes called Jet-Line), tie it on to one of your existing cables, and use the existing cable to pull the Jet-Line through the PVC Pipe. Now you have 1 cable and the Jet line in the PVC. Then cut the Jet-Line and take it to the other end of the pipe. Now use the Jet-Line as the pull, and pull back in the RG-6 along with 2 more RG-6's and another Jet Line. This will allow you to be able to add cables when needed.


Now with 4 cables into the house, you can remove your original multiswitch, and hook up each receiver to the 4 outputs of the new 4x4 multiswitch.


Hope this helps.
 

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casenpt1, I see you have a SAT-T60 and a HD STB. How do you have these connected to your TV? I have a SAT-T60 myself and am going to buy an HD RPTV very soon. I want to have HD, but I know the rest of my family will find it a chore to change the inputs on an A/V receiver and the TV just to view something in HD. Any suggestions?


Also, I'm moving into a new house soon and its an electronic man's dream. Speaker wire in every room, atleast 1 homerun RG-6 in each room, its great. For the main TV, there are two RG-6's coming from the multiswitch closet. I would ordinarily hook these two up to the SAT-T60 and let the dual tuners work their magic. However, depending if I get an HD STB, would I need a third RG-6 line from the multiswitch to hook up to the HD STB? If so, it would be a real pain to tear the walls open run to another RG-6, are there any switches or stackers or something I can use to get 3 DTV + signals out of two lines? Also, OTA HD channels would be a must if I'm springing for an HD STB. If I had a 5x8 multiswitch, could I hook an OTA antenna to the "antenna" input on the multiswitch, then use a diplexer on one of the 2 lines going to the TV to have both a DirecTV + signal and an OTA signal for the STB?


Thanks,

Black
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Casey,


Wow, very through site! I went through practically every page and learned quite a few things.


I had an uneasy feeling about digging up to add more wires, and your site confirmed it. Oh well, at some point I'm going to have to bite the bullet and start digging. I'd use pull line, but there are too many angles, and the PVC isn't quite wide enough to handle more wires. Of course!


Thanks again!

Robert
 

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Black,


To connect all of my sources to my tv I am using 3 different inputs on the tv itself. I have the Component outputs of my HD STB and my DVD Player connected directly to the tv (Inputs 5 & 6). I have the video of my "other sources" and all of the audio connected to my Denon AVR-2700. The video monitor output of the Denon is connected to video input 1 on my tv.


I have a Sony RM-VL90 universal remote that controls all of my components. I have macros programmed to switch inputs on the tv and the Denon at the same time. I don't have any audio going to my tv. I always listen through my receiver.


As for the wiring in your house, I would suggest that you install more than 2 lines to your main tv room. You will need a minimum of 3, but you should run 4. These will take care of your SAT-T60, HD STB and OTA signals.


To get by with 2 cables will be pretty dificult. You can diplex the OTA with the Satellite signal, but I have had enough problems in my setup that I wouldn't suggest it. My antenna feed comes directly to my STB, and I am still chasing a problem with ABC's signal not locking in continuously.


There are also devices that will allow you to carry more than one Directv signal on a cable. I believe they are called stackers, but I don't have any experience with them.


Robert and Black,


If you only have 2 cables, you may be able to use a stacker, and a diplexer with a 5x8 multiswitch, and you may be able to get it to work, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it. I can't even be sure that it will work.


Good luck to both of you.
 

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Black...


Do you know of any businesses in Los Angeles that would swap my current dish with the sony oval that's on it's way? I also want someone to run speaker cable under the house. I'm not much of a do-it-yourselfer...
 

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PJ, sorry, other than Best Buy, which is where I got my round dish that will stay with this house (makes it easier to justify to the family for getting the Oval dish :).


casen: I have the Sony RM-VL900 (did you miss a 0 on the model #?) and I like it very much. I'm using it with my 27" Sony wega and a Harman Kardon receiver I have. It controls anything due the to the learning function, but you already know all this. My question is, how do you get the TV to change its input from just a macro on the remote? From what I read in my manual, you can directly switch to an input by pressing TV/Video+Input#. While this works with the remote that came with the TV or even the VL900, the 900's manual stated that it cannot have combination functions (such as TV/Video+Input#) in macros. Putting me SOL. How do you have your macros setup?


Also, how much do stackers run? And can they "stack" a DTV+ signal?
 

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The multiswitch diagrams are helpful. Can you help me with my situation using a diagram? Thanks in advance.


I have DirecTV plus, oval dish with two dual LMB and three receivers, two HD and one old single LMB receiver. I have one line unused and a Terk HD attenna (separate line).


Now for the question: I want to add Dish network for the 61.5 HD bird and the other two Dish satellites.


I want both providers plus OTA antenna. Bottom line I want to have the ability to choose either DircTV or Dish with OTA in four rooms with minimal Dishes on the roof?
 

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Black,


Yes, it is the RM-VL900. As far as the Macros go, I believe it will allow you to have combination button presses. I just put the remote in Macro program mode and pressed the combination (input+number) and it was all set. I'm pretty sure that I didn't press them at exactly the same time, but instead pressed input and held it down, and then the number. I did it quickly though. Give it a shot.


For the stackers, I'm sorry to say that I have no experience at all with them, so I'm not going to be of any help here. However, check out that website I had posted previously. It has some great info on it. (It's not my site.)


Here it is again:

http://www.geocities.com/dbs_tech/


RobertM,


On the above site, under Multi-dish switch usage examples, click on the second link. At the bottom you will find 8A and 8B. One of these setups should work for you. It will allow 4 of each Dish and Directv receivers.


You can substitute your original Directv receiver for one of the Directv+ receivers. You will only have the eliptical and one round dish on your roof.


You should be able to use a 5x4 multiswitch for your Directv receivers. This will allow you to use a diplexer at the receiver to split out the OTA for the HD receiver.


I'm not sure about the Dish Network OTA because I only have Directv.


Good luck to both of you.
 

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Robert, I don't know if you can use Ultimate TV with only one tuner connected, if so this may be a compromise to cripple your Ultimate TV to avoid retrenching. Switching can be done at the dish and two cables run directly to two receivers.


Jake was incorrect earlier when he said you only need one of the two ports on a dual LNB. Not if you need to support multiple receivers, which is why a dual LNB was needed.
 
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