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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone compared these 2 projectors. Because DLP's cause me eystrain and headaches I have settled on D-ILA. I need to buy my projector in the next 6-8 weeks so the SXRD is out. I have seen the 150 at the shootout in NYC and really liked it. I can get a good deal on the Maxx. Anyone thoughts on how the SX21/Maxx compares to the 150?


Thanx in advance.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Warrenbonz
I need to buy my projector in the next 6-8 weeks so the SXRD is out.
Warren


Man you have been waiting forever why not just hold out till SXRD rears its head:)


Seriously though you need to compare both as we did that day in NY. That is the only way to know for sure. That said Peter, the kind fellow who brought in the 150, has noticed even further improvements to the picture we saw after a phelps calibration. That coupled with a panamorph or ISCO is a pretty persuasive, albeit expensive, package.


Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


Chris
 

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I happen to own the G150 but if I was buying today I'd probably go with the SX21. Why? The built-in scaler is a little better, slightly higher resolution, supports 1:1 full panel native resolution, and a big difference in cost. You could easily add a Panamorph to the SX21 and still be under the G150.


That being said I'm thrilled with my G150 and in most cases I have seen the G150 rated over the SX21 (slightly) in picture quality.
 

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I saw the SX-21 prototype and the G150 in the same roomand while there may an argument that the G150 might have been a little better, the difference was so small and the price difference was so big that it was a no brainer to go with the SX-21. However, actual production model of the SX-21 is a little different from the prototype so to be honest, I dont know anymore
 

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Remember though that the SX-21 is rather limiting on amount of zoom relative to the G-150. If you need a long throw, the SX-21 may not do.
 

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The SX-21 Lens also has triple-baffle aperture mod on the lens. Very nice. This seems to be the popular trick these days.


For example, the mod is done on the LT series of RGBW color wheel NEC projectors as of recent, and is probably all that is responsible for the increased CR in the Spec of these units. They went from 1300:1 to 2000:1 CR spec.
 

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I saw both these PJs together with a HD video source at my local custom installers theater. The two PJs were switched back and forth by switching the source cables. It was rather late, so I could only spend ~40 mins with the two units.

I thought that the 150 had better colors, was slightly sharper, and had a slightly better "punch". I also thought that the shadow detail was slightly better on the 150. The SX21 seemed to have a slightly better fill factor, and almost an inperceivable "screen door" on a 110" diag, 16:9 screen at *any* distance.

The SX was also much smaller, and the fan noise was considerable less.

The SX 21 is clearly the better deal, although the 150 is likely a slightly better PJ.


SM
 

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I've seen both of these PJ's side by side at JVC's facility in West Hollywood. The pictures they produced were virtually identical. The JVC sales rep felt that the SX-21 had "slightly" better colors. Between the two units I saw, I had to agree, but the very small difference was probably due to slight differences in calibration. The SX-21 was smaller, quieter, and ran cooler. Even if they were the same price, I would probably choose the SX-21.


Another consideration that I would explore. I've read that William Phelps ("WM" on the forum) can greatly improve the DILA picture with his calibration. PM him and ask how the pictures of each compare after calibration. It might be that he can make a larger improvement in PQ on one or the other.


If it were me, I would wait to see Sonys SXRD. All digital PJ technologies have there own PQ problems. With DILA the blacks are not dark enough to give a good enough picture for me in dark low contrast scenes. The blacks look foggy in this type of scene, and I find it distracting. Medium, and high brite scenes were beautiful, so were high contrast scenes.


If SXRD has even a 1500:1 CR at the screen, it will be in the same ballpark as the HD2s. SXRD is supposed to be out in 5-6 months.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanx for all the repsonses.


I have been looking at projectors for what must be 18 mos by now. My current house/room can not accomodate a screen much bigger than my 58" Pioneer 610 so waiting wasn't that a big deal. I just signed a contract on a new house and if it goes thru I can accomodate a big screen in my new home theatre/ guest room. (I am combining 2 bedrooms that are accross the hall from each other. The room will be approx 35ft long and 13 ft 2 inches in the front and 12 ft in the back.) I really want to get the theatre finished ASAP. I plan doing a 9 ft screen (firehawK?) with 2 rows of seating about 18 ft and 23 ft away with a curtian or accordian wall to separate the guest room/murphy bed area from the theatre when needed at about 28ft. Any thoughts?


Hopefully William Phelps will pop in as I think the after calibration results question is a very good one.


If the difference isn't that great it seems as the Maxx may be the way to go for me, as I can get a pretty good deal on one.
 

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I saw both of the projectors demonstrated literally side by side at JVC's booth at the recent NAB show. It was a good set up in an almost completely dark, curtained booth. The two side by side screens were both 9 feet wide, Stewart Studiotek white (not gray), 1.3 gain. Both were being fed the same D-VHS signal (HD) with trailers of the new Pirates of the Caribbean movie. Both units looked excellent. The 150 had slightly truer colors and slightly better blacks - but it was very, very close - maybe only a 5% diff overall between the two. If you consider the SX-21's cheaper price, cheaper & longer bulb life, quieter fan, smaller size, and better built in scaler for non-HD sources, I think it's the no brainer choice.


If you are running something like a high end, professional video/film color correction business, you might need the greater accuracy of the 150 to show clients, but aside from that, it's a lot more work and expense to deal with for very limited gain.


Both units were extremely involving to watch and felt very movie-like.


All the best,

Chuck
 

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I was at the same JVC demo as Daniel and to me the SX-21 looked a bit brighter and the colors had a touch more punch than the G150. However, when we tested the SX-21 in my HT, I thought the brightness was decreased a bit (some say this is due to a change in bulb brightness between the prototype and production models, not that big of a deal to me though).


It still handled my 133" diag Firehawk with no problem, and held up nicely to the Infocus 7200, although I would give the edge to the 7200 in overall PQ.


As Glenned and Chuck mentioned, considering the price, noise, heat and size advantages of the SX-21, I would go with the it over the G150.


Bottom line, the SX-21 is a peach, and if I had issues with DLP rainbows and headaches I would have one in my HT.


Hey Chuck, you saw another demo, are you still holding out on a purchase? Gee wiz, you may have me beat on procrastination!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
What screen (at about 9 ft wide, in a mostly or totaly light controlled room) would you guys recommend for the Maxx? Firehawk,Greyhawk ?
 

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I thought the Firehawk was a little too dark for the SX21 ... just my 2 cents.


I brought SX21 & HTPC setup over to "Mandarex" today and looked at it on several screens & the Goo digital light gray. We both preferrred the Da-Lite Cinemavision high-contrast the best. At our Canuck shootout last weekend, I liked this Da-Lite best there too, and over the Grayhawk.


- Andy
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by glenned
With DILA the blacks are not dark enough to give a good enough picture for me in dark low contrast scenes. The blacks look foggy in this type of scene, and I find it distracting. Medium, and high brite scenes were beautiful, so were high contrast scenes.
By "foggy" do you mean false contouring/posterization? Before calibration, this was an annoying problem with my G150 in dark scenes. After William was done with it, this problem was gone.


I haven't seen an SX21 so I can't help there except to absolutely agree with Chris - seeing PJs side-by-side is the way to go.


Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Anyone know of a place that the 150 could be seen next to the SX21 and/or the SX21 can be seen on a Greyhawk and a Firehawk?
 

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PeterAM,


No digital PJ can make true black yet. The best they can do is dark grey. By direct comparison you can see a wide gulf betweent the HD2's and the DILA. The darkest black that DILA makes is pretty grey.


When the projected scene of a movie is bright, or high contrast (it has a combination of bright and dark elements in it) the DILA blacks look completely black. When there is no bright object in the picture to create contrast, and thus make the "dark Grey" look black by comparison, you percieve the true color and it isn't "black".


By foggy blacks, I mean the black portions the picture look like they are being seen through fog because they are really grey.


The firehawk is designed to reduce this effect by making the blacks look darker while still keeping the lighter colored elements looking bright. It does this because it is a grey colored screen, it has gain, and because it is designed to reject ambient light.


The SX21 is a bright PJ. It will light up your HT. Unless your walls, ceiling, and floor are very dark colored cloth, the light coming off the screen will be reflected back to your screen and wash out the image to a noticeable degree. The firehawk is designed to reduce this effect and keep blacks as dark as they can be. It works, thats why people are willing to pay its premium price.


I like bright colors better on a true white screen, but the compromise in color fidelity with the firehawk is very small IMHO and the benefit is very large. I have not seen the DaLite HCCV and so can't offer you an opinion as to how they compare.


Keep in mind that each of our opinions is flavored by our individual tastes, and that some of this stuff isn't as much a matter of right or wrong as it is a matter of personal preference.
 

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glenned,


I just wanted to be sure what you meant by "foggy". Uncalibrated, a G150 suffers from subtle low level false contouring that looks... foggy. Calibration eliminates this problem but of course cannot fix the absolute black level problem.


Compared to a Marantz S1 at the NYC PJ shootout that cmont refers to above, black level is about the only weakness, at least PQwise, that the G150 has IMO.


BTW, I have a StudioTek 130 screen.


Peter
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by glenned


I like bright colors better on a true white screen, but the compromise in color fidelity with the firehawk is very small IMHO and the benefit is very large.
What compromise in color fidelity do you speak (write) of? The Firehawk is grey but it has extremely little measurable color shift.
 
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