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Discussion Starter #1
I'm fairly new to SXRDI bought a Sony HW10 back in February and was quite pleased with it. (it wasn't perfect, but about as good as I could get for the money)


However, it seems to be ageing very badly. Unfortunately I don't have much data to support this due to a hard drive failure (I had been keeping track of it) but when I first got it, the low' colour temperature preset was very close to D65I only had to make very small +/- changes to greyscale to get it perfect. (one or two clicks)


Unfortunately you can only choose gamma presets on the HW10 rather than setting a custom curve, but using the Gamma 3 option resulted in a very good 2.3 gamma.



As it's aged, things have become progressively worse.


Every hundred hours or so when I've gone to do a touch-up calibration it's needed increasingly larger white balance corrections. Some are now around 15/20 points rather than the 1/2 it was when I got it.


The red panel in particular has become very non-linear with a big dip in the middle, but also a large spike in red from 15% or so down. Despite my best efforts, I've not been able to fix this entirely.



White balance controls reset to zero, measured last week:





Not only has the red (and blue/green to some degree) become less and less linear (it was almost flat to begin with) but gamma has gradually been declining.


What was originally 2.3 (and slightly too dark towards black) became 2.2, then 2.1 and after having another go at calibrating it today, 2.05.


I spent all morning with it, and these were the best results I could get:



(note: 2.05 is set as the target here as I had given up on fixing gamma and just wanted to get greyscale as good as it could be)


While greyscale is pretty good from 30% up, it starts becoming quite red below that, with 10% and under getting drastically worse the closer it is to black.


Not only that, but the image looks completely flat and washed-out now due to the 2.05 gamma. (as you would expect)


It's not a brightness/contrast issueif I lower brightness any further, or the low-end RGB controls, I'm throwing away shadow detail.



I've had a look in the service menu, but don't see anything obvious that would let me fix gamma on the projectorthe only controls relating to gamma are the 3200-point panel uniformity correction, and I'm not about to start changing that. (though the panel uniformity also seems to be getting worse as it ages)




Should this sort of thing be expected from SXRD projector as it ages?

Have I overlooked something that would let me correct for it?


Or does it just look like I have a faulty projector and should get it replaced?


It's not quite had 600 hours use in ≈6 months time.


Almost makes me wish I had gone for another DLP.
 

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From another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee /forum/post/16936270


My Sony HW10 measured about a foot from the lens. (was actually up to 5800cd/m² when I repositioned the i1Pro)


That translates to about 40cd/m² off my 118" Carada BW screen though.

With the i1 Pro, capture the spectral output of "pure" white and track that through your next couple of calibration cycles. I would suspect a change in the lamp more than a change in the panels, themselves, but from your description of how bright you have it, my guess is that the lamp has been run hard in full brightness mode and is aging rapidly (you may have been unlucky in the great lamp crap shoot). In any event, the spectral output should give some indication of panel aging vs. lamp aging (UHP lamps lose a lot of red over time). Also, panel non-linearities should be easily visible as you change that primary's contrast (gain) control (this is not the same as having a "hump" in the luminance curve that you show, above).


Be sure to run the diagnostics for the i1 Pro with the calibration plate, as well, to make sure the meter isn't flaking out on you. You are putting a LOT of light (and heat) into the i1 Pro by measuring it so close to the lens.
 

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Discussion Starter #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear5k /forum/post/16937042


From another thread:


With the i1 Pro, capture the spectral output of "pure" white and track that through your next couple of calibration cycles. I would suspect a change in the lamp more than a change in the panels, themselves, but from your description of how bright you have it, my guess is that the lamp has been run hard in full brightness mode and is aging rapidly (you may have been unlucky in the great lamp crap shoot). In any event, the spectral output should give some indication of panel aging vs. lamp aging (UHP lamps lose a lot of red over time). Also, panel non-linearities should be easily visible as you change that primary's contrast (gain) control (this is not the same as having a "hump" in the luminance curve that you show, above).


Be sure to run the diagnostics for the i1 Pro with the calibration plate, as well, to make sure the meter isn't flaking out on you. You are putting a LOT of light (and heat) into the i1 Pro by measuring it so close to the lens.

I had been running the bulb on low brightness until the last 50 hours or so when it had been getting too dim to watch on low.

EDIT: Using a projector calculator (first one that came up on Google) getting 40cd/m² from my 118" Carada BW screen (about 1.1 true' gain rather than the advertised 1.4) would require around 450 lumens. So it's not that the bulb is that bright, it's just that I had moved the i1Pro in close. (prior to the last two calibration sessions before I moved things around it was further back, reading around 2500cd/m² peak white)


When I said the red panel seems to be responding a lot less linearly, I meant that it was almost flat when it was out of the box, and now it's looking like that with no adjustments.



I hadn't even considered that the i1Pro might be too close though. I thought it was thermally compensated (the dark reading) and CalMAN says the limit for the meter is 30,000cd/m² when the diffuser is attached, so I wasn't concerned about it and tried to maximise the amount of light going into it to get readings that were as accurate as possible at low light levels. With it set up like this, I was able to read down to 5% grey without LLH even kicking in. (I've actually just checked and it was more like 2ft back due to where the tripod can actually fit in the room)


I'll run the diagnostics and check it on another display, but it seemed to be working ok.


I still have a Chroma 5 and DTP-94 here that I can check it against, so I'll do that.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ok, I've run the diagnostics, and it's passing everything up to the reflectance test. (which is the last one if I remember correctly)


That one has always given me problems with my i1Pro since the day I got it though. (I was concerned my i1Pro was faulty when I got it, but Spectracal told me it wasn't a problem)


The lamp is lighting, it just isn't passing. I've had it pass the test once in the past, but I don't know what I did any differently for that to happen. That doesn't really concern me, as it passed all the important ones. The only time I've used reflectance was when deciding what projection screen to get.



Tested the meters on an old CRT which hasn't been calibrated for some time. They all seem to be agreeing about as much as they ever did:




Pretty much the same for gamma, but somewhat different on greyscale. (if they were all identical there would be no need for more than one)


Of the three, I trust the Chroma 5 the least, though the i1Pro isn't great at very dark readings, but that's nothing out of the ordinary.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee /forum/post/16937823


Ok, I've run the diagnostics, and it's passing everything up to the reflectance test. (which is the last one if I remember correctly)


That one has always given me problems with my i1Pro since the day I got it though. (I was concerned my i1Pro was faulty when I got it, but Spectracal told me it wasn't a problem)


The lamp is lighting, it just isn't passing. I've had it pass the test once in the past, but I don't know what I did any differently for that to happen. That doesn't really concern me, as it passed all the important ones. The only time I've used reflectance was when deciding what projection screen to get.[..]

You always want to rule out the instrument. With the calibration plate, the i1 Pro is fairly to field test.


If you've got the budget, you might want to try a new lamp. Otherwise a call into Sony Service may be in order. However, Sony may have you jump through a lot of hoops before conceding to have you send it on for a color shift.
 

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Discussion Starter #7

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/16938636


A lamp is not going to help a gray scale linearity problem. I have seen this type of degradation with many SXRD based products. I would contact Sony before the warranty is out.

ThanksI have a friend who has had a similar thing happen with his VW60 just recently as well, and I was wondering if it was a general SXRD issue. Looks like it is.



Any idea what causes it? I'm shocked it's happened after 6 months of use.


In his case, he was able to use ImageDirector to fix it, but I don't believe the HW10 is supported.


Had I known there was the possibility of this sort of thing happening, I would have probably either avoided SXRD or gone with one of the projectors that supported ImageDirector. (even if the HW10 is supposed to perform better than the VW60)



Fortunately the projector comes with a three year warranty as standard in the UK, and they'll even send you a temporary machine if the repair takes longer than 10 days.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee /forum/post/16939568


Thanks—I have a friend who has had a similar thing happen with his VW60 just recently as well, and I was wondering if it was a general SXRD issue. Looks like it is.



Any idea what causes it? I'm shocked it's happened after 6 months of use.

.....

I suspect it is thermal degradation of an adheasive on the SXRD chip, but I do not know for certain. The hotter you get these units the quicker they seem to fail. Image director is not likely to be a permanent fix. It will only get worse over time.


It is one of the reasons I own a JVC product myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #9

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/16941373


I suspect it is thermal degradation of an adheasive on the SXRD chip, but I do not know for certain. The hotter you get these units the quicker they seem to fail. Image director is not likely to be a permanent fix. It will only get worse over time.


It is one of the reasons I own a JVC product myself.

I was also thinking it was a thermal related issueI've been running my HW10 on the high fan mode since I noticed this starting to happen. (which is actually pretty loud
)


I hadn't heard/read anything about this previously, and I doubt I would have gone for the HW10/SXRD had I know about it.


I found the service manual for it, and there doesn't seem to be anything in there that could compensate for this. Looks like I'll have to give Sony a call.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If it's of interest to anyone, I found out why the i1Pro wasn't passing the reflectance test. I was using a longer USB lead (3m instead of 1m) which must not have been giving the meter enough power.


Going back to the one that came with the sensor let it pass all the tests first time.
 

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Hey guys,


Ekki (Cine4Home) had reported SXRD aging problems last year already. Now after reading this thread I've started a new thread in the projectors forum about this aging problem. If you don't mind, would you care to have a look here?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1172164


It would be great, if especially umr could post in the other thread. Although I understand if you don't want to, seeing this it could get dirty...



Thanks!
 
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