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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr /forum/post/18960077


but also be man enough to say that you are not comfortable spending $1k or $10k on a cable and have no way to know what you may be missing


fair?

There is nothing to find out, so I am not missing anything, period.

I am not into art collecting.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpjibberjabber /forum/post/18961001


.... There are a handful of people on here that will never be swayed, unless the findings support their pre-existing dogmatic beliefs. Tragically, these beliefs are build on limited testing and findings that barely scratch the surface of the audio world. ....

This is based in some innate knowledge you have??? You have gone beyond scratching the audio surface??? WOW.


By the way, not sure what your sig line quote is suppose to mean. You mean your beliefs can tell us what 'must be?'
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ /forum/post/18963135


I am not into art collecting.

understandable you strike me as not having the aptitude for it
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ /forum/post/18963192



By the way, not sure what your sig line quote is suppose to mean.

seems like allot gets by you, it seems pretty straight forward to me
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest /forum/post/18961162


JP, just so you understand, here at work we have a dedicated semi-anechoic test room, a full suite of electronic and medical test facilities, MRI units, mass spec., electron microscopes and much more. I'm pretty sure that the work we do here cannot meet anyone's definition or "limited testing". So, tell us, exactly (just once please) what facilities you use to inform yourself. It would be nice to have some real understanding of what you base your beliefs on (other than your so called wealth of experience), so we can judge for ourselves who has the "limited" capabilities and the dogmatic beliefs, and who has actually scratched the surface of the audio world...

I've expressed what I've done. And although your description sounds impressive, I'm trying to figure out what any of what you listed has to do with the subject at hand. Do you listen to MRI units and and electron microscopes? Don't attempt to impress the uninitiated with specious arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd /forum/post/18961091


Thanks for editing out the "f" word you used earlier. I was going to say that's a psychotic behavior.

For the record, I was going to say "fooking" which is pretty tame. Nice try though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ /forum/post/18963135


I am not into art collecting.

Yup. Requires imagination, appreciation for aesthetics, and respect for human achievement. It also requires respect for an individual's perception of the world through his senses. For some reason, I doubt you even appreciate art. Evidence is the fact that you like to measure equipment vs listening to the media pouring through it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ /forum/post/18963192


This is based in some innate knowledge you have??? You have gone beyond scratching the audio surface??? WOW.

This isn't about me. This statement is about what science thinks they have nailed down, but there is much to be learned.

Quote:
By the way, not sure what your sig line quote is suppose to mean. You mean your beliefs can tell us what 'must be?'

I think your own personal journey should lead you to eventually understanding that sig. Will definitely be hard for an atheist.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpjibberjabber /forum/post/18963229


For the record, I was going to say "fooking" which is pretty tame. Nice try though.

That was the word you posted. Then you edited it out. It must have been a slip during your spur of the moment. That would have been called a psychotic behavior had you not changed it quickly. Nice try, you.

Quote:
This statement is about what science thinks they have nailed down, but there is much to be learned.

How did you find this out?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpjibberjabber /forum/post/18963229


I've expressed what I've done.

No, you've made vague claims at having done some blind testing of some ill defined form in the distant past and having now moved beyond it in some mysterious, undefined way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpjibberjabber /forum/post/18963229


And although your description sounds impressive, I'm trying to figure out what any of what you listed has to do with the subject at hand. Do you listen to MRI units and and electron microscopes? Don't attempt to impress the uninitiated with specious arguments.

Well, at least you admit that you are not familiar with what any of this has to do anything.... You may want to catch up on the current state of the art in audio research. There are at least two important things that have become possible in the last 10 to 5 or so years (briefly):


1) fMRI analysis of brain activation in response to stimuli; as in knowing whether the brain actually responds to a particular audio signal or not. Along with that, we can also watch other portions of the brain activate when the subject is told that a certain stimuli is present, but not (for example, a cable that is supposed to make a difference, but doesn't.) Of particular relevance is the fact that when the subject is told to listen for the inaudible, no signal is detected. When the subject is told a signal is present, but there is not, portions of the brain, unconnected to audio processing kick in.


2) understanding at the molecular level how the ear processes audio signals. We now know from studying things like ion activation channels and protein pathways what the upper and lower limits are on the mechanical and electrical capabilities of the ear, including not only frequency response, but phase response and impulse response. We are also understand some of the genomics that governs these limits.


MRI units, in part, make the 1st possible. Mass spec and electron microscopes etc. make the 2nd possible.


Edit: and I really hope I don't have to explain the relevance of a semi anechoic testing chamber?
 

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Please stay on topic and stop the back and forth bickering, or the thread will be locked.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike C /forum/post/18964033

Please stay on topic and stop the back and forth bickering, or the thread will be locked.

I'm not sure this thread ever was on topic. But I'll try:

http://www.synergisticresearch.com/a...ace-grounding/


Looks good, apparently makes an improvement, and customers seem to like them whether or not they actually paid for them. Now, let's have all the debunkers parachute in and fire away since there's no DBT to provide as evidence...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpjibberjabber /forum/post/18965276


I'm not sure this thread ever was on topic. But I'll try:

http://www.synergisticresearch.com/a...ace-grounding/


Looks good, apparently makes an improvement, and customers seem to like them whether or not they actually paid for them. Now, let's have all the debunkers parachute in and fire away since there's no DBT to provide as evidence...

I don't waste my time "debunking" homeopathy claims, bigfoot claims, alien abduction claims or 9/11 conspiracy theory claims and I won't waste my time on this claim either as it provides as much evidence for it's claim as the others. You can't debate with believers.
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You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by David James /forum/post/18965405


I don't waste my time "debunking" homeopathy claims, bigfoot claims, alien abduction claims or 9/11 conspiracy theory claims and I won't waste my time on this claim either as it provides as much evidence for it's claim as the others. You can't debate with believers.

JP isn't a believer. According to his post he is completely neutral so obviously he agrees with you as much as he agrees with that link.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/18965433


JP isn't a believer. According to his post he is completely neutral so obviously he agrees with you as much as he agrees with that link.

Wrongo, Penn. Mr. JibJab certainly IS a believer, in himself and his observations in real life scenarios, not relying on the dogmatic rantings of some posters.


Hmmm, self reliant, not bowing at the altar of the "enlightened DBT'ers", thinking for himself and ascertaining his own conclusions.......? Yes, a very frightening scenario for some on this board.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by David James /forum/post/18965405


You can't debate with believers.

Or curmudgeons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest /forum/post/18965785


Wrong and wrong again. Could you please contribute something to this thread other than attacking everyone who points out how little you actually know about the subject at hand?


My job here is to spec and design the data management systems for the research data. I work with the researchers on a daily basis. I have to get a pretty exact understanding of what goes on here, since you can't exactly get of the shelf systems to manage any of this (any errors in design will adversely effect the ability to collect the data). Since I've also been deeply involved in the world of audio I've paid particular attention to that aspect of the research.

Right. So nothing to do with audio. That is something that we cannot forget; no matter how tangentially the equipment you deal with might have something to do with audio at some level, the fact is between the two of us, I'm the only one that's dealt with the gear at all levels. This doesn't include years of training in the installation and application of the equipment, calibration of audio and video, and a host of either things you like to read about and pontificate over.


Let's not cloud the issue. You may have some knowledge about audio - there's no point debating that. Compared to an industry veteran that's done far more than sales in the past, you can't really argue with me too much and be taken seriously.


Back to your white papers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by par4 /forum/post/18965697


Wrongo, Penn. Mr. JibJab certainly IS a believer, in himself and his observations in real life scenarios, not relying on the dogmatic rantings of some posters.


Hmmm, self reliant, not bowing at the altar of the "enlightened DBT'ers", thinking for himself and ascertaining his own conclusions.......? Yes, a very frightening scenario for some on this board.

Correct, but it might be shocking for these same people to understand that in addition to my observations and experience, I fully believe in the science. My problem is that much of science doesn't take into consideration anything until it's beating them over their heads - then they lay claim to the discovery. It's a fascinating discourse in achievement through hindsight. I simply think there's plenty to ascertain and investigate, and while that embraces the world of possibility, so did much of the science we now take for granted. These closed-minded fellows will never get it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpjibberjabber /forum/post/18967111


Right. So nothing to do with audio.


Let's not cloud the issue. You may have some knowledge about audio - there's no point debating that. Compared to an industry veteran that's done far more than sales in the past, you can't really argue with me too much and be taken seriously.

Say what? This is from the person who doesn't even know what equipment is used to measure the human ability to respond to audio signals? Man you are an expert at taking a single post, making massive assumptions and coming to inane conclusions.


Among other things, in the past, I've worked both sides of the sound board, and hung out with some of the most respected people in the industry (some of whom are also members here on AVS). However, all that aside, tell us, exactly what are your credentials? I know you've been asked for them before, perhaps I missed it but I haven't seen anything specific? Other than arrogantly telling us how wonderful you are, please provide some actual evidence that you know even a smidgen about audio. Anything will do, just give us a crumb.


All chest thumping aside, you're right about one thing, I can't argue with you; you haven't posted any rational statements to argue about. To date you have not managed to discuss any single aspect of audio. Rather, your sole contribution here is to denigrate anyone who has any perspective other than you own. You've never discussed any of the technical points I or anyone else has made in this thread, instead whenever you are confronted with anything that confounds your narrow world view you resort to name calling and innuendo.


I have no idea if you realize how you come across here, but I'd suggest you get your wife or a friend to read some of your posts before you post them from now on. You sound horribly bitter at the world and really you are not doing yourself any favors with your attitude towards the rest of the membership here on AVS. I promised myself I would no longer feed the trolls, but I had some hope that just maybe there was a slight chance you were here for something other than stroking your own ego. Apparently I was wrong.
 
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