AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,598 Posts
It would help in considering our processor plans if you think of the AV192R as we do: an extension of the current AV32R.

I can't give any pricing yet, but even if I did the list will be incomplete. There will be many many options offered for this platform. Currently we offer the THX Surround EX extensions, PLII, HDCD software decode and soon DTS ES discrete and NEO:6 with more to come.

The future can bring balanced outputs, analog bypass, internal tuner, digital DVD-A interface, component video switching, DSP upgrades, digital video interfaces,DAC upgrades, internal video scaler, control upgrades etc etc. I don't know what the pricing would be if you really wanted all the options, but it is a little difficult to imagine needing ALL of them.

I'm afraid there isn't a simple answer to what an AV192R is, much less a simple price.

Sorry if this doesn't really answer your question. But since this is such a growth/upgrade oriented program, it's perhaps best to bite off smaller mouthfuls rather then try and ingest the whole thing at once.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
659 Posts
Quote:
But since this is such a growth/upgrade oriented program, it's perhaps best to bite off smaller mouthfuls rather then try and ingest the whole thing at once.
Really!!! :D


The least amount of time without the processor in the rack the better, and I'm sure I'll take all available options!!!!! :cool: Hope that the loaner program will be in place.


Rick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,988 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Rick S. exactly. A lot of those options, such as sound formats, and component switiching should be standard but having a choice I hope doesn't mean paying more(if that makes sense).


Spero D.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
659 Posts
Spero,


I'm sure that the pricing will be very good! Based on the performance of the AV32R to $$$$ ratio!


Rick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,598 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Spizz
Rick S. exactly. A lot of those options, such as sound formats, and component switching should be standard but having a choice I hope doesn't mean paying more(if that makes sense).


Spero D.
Sorry, it does not make sense to me (but then I've only had one cup of coffee and it's already late morning).


How can they be options and be standard?

For example, suppose someone does not need component video switching (there are a lot of purists who want a direct connection to their monitor).

Doing component right (we won't do it any other way) is expensive. Wouldn't it be nice to have that optional? If it is standard the price for everyone goes up.


Or am I just not getting it????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,335 Posts
Never thought I'd be the one to step into the fray on a Tag product ;)


Different people have different perceptions about what should be "standard" and what should be options.


That's what we're seeing here.


I understand (and appreciate) both perspectives.



To me, it looks like the AV-192R approach is solid underpinnings and add what you want to get the "custom" product that fits your needs....


Spizz would like to see more in the base product.


Both of you are of course right, for different reasons :)


After this post, I'm seriously thinking of a spot in the Diplomatic Corps.


Regards,
 

·
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
·
8,301 Posts
I fall partly into both camps. I want a large selection of "standard" features, and the base AV32R does an excellent job of doing just that. Then I want to hand pick the "options" that apply to my wants and needs specifically, without having to pay for features that I do not need or want. Buzz's example of component video switching is a perfect example, and one which applies to me. I have no use for it, as I have a 9" CRT projector with RGB-HV inputs, and I own no piece of gear that uses component video connects, so I would hate to be forced to pay for that feature when it is of no value to me. I feel that TAG's approach of selling features "a la carte" is wonderful, and is just one more reason that I would never consider parting with my beloved AV32R-EX.

Quote:
After this post, I'm seriously thinking of a spot in the Diplomatic Corps.
Hehe....Great job, John!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
401 Posts
I wonder how many other companies are going to adopt this type of upgrade policy as it seems cost effective for both the consumer as well as the manufacturer. It seems so simple I have to wonder why no one had thought of it sooner. Tag's vision has to be adimired.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,948 Posts
the Tag approach does seem great, giving the best fitting and matched price options as we see fit. It would be great to see a truly useful upgrade policy, compared to Proceed 's wait, wait, wait and then they give you the PVP?


The only downside i have seen is that if you get the early model now, you are going to have to be without it for a while (weeks?) when you send it in for the upgrade options as they become available.

Here is another twist. Right now, i am using balanced outputs and would want to keep those interconnects, but if i went for the interim Tag model, it wouldn't have balanced until next year's options become available. Would the amplifier also have to eventually be upgraded to have balanced inputs to match?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
I agree that the TAG business model is very consumer friendly, but speaking as a hardware engineer, it seems like a configuration management and regulatory nightmare.


With hundreds of possible hardware/software configurations, it would require exhaustive integration and verification testing to make sure that all configurations function as specified.


And then there is the issue of tracking each customer's configuration so that you can determine which customers are affected by recalls or bug fixes, should they be required in the future.


I think these are the types of issues that lead most companies to offer "one size fits all" products.


Hats of to TAG for the extra work that is required to build such a configurable product!



Kit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Buzz I'm a little curious I read a post of you where you said that putting a tuner in the processor was not a good idea, and now you will?

is it DAB just or?


The AV192R seems to be a killer tough, if I had the money I would definitely go for one.


I'm hoping to find a used AV32 soon:).


The only thing I have against Tag is that you are so close to MB, and I'm a BMW guy:D :D :D :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,988 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Doing component right (we won't do it any other way) is expensive.
Component right to me is what my Denon AVC-A1SE (AVR-5800) already sports i.e. passing through HDTV without no loss in picture quality. Also the THX Ultra 2 spec also states the same for its certification to be applied, and the new Pioneer featuring the THX Ultra 2 cert. also has component switching which can pass through with no loss. Should component switching be expensive if it is implemented in the way Pioneer, Denon, and Onkyo have implemented it? If not what will Tag do differently in relation to component switching and its implementation to cost more?


Thanks Buzz in advance & can you move the time table up on the 192 :)


Spero D.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,335 Posts
No. 3-5x required bandwidth is where no loss occurs.


When a manufacturer says they have bandwidth to xmHz, if memory serves me correctly that's the -3dB point, at which point the signal is 1/2 the reference level. Since this is the case, you're already softening the image.


50mHz isn't it. This is why you see Extron switchers with 350mHz bandwidth -- no degradation out to wickedly high pixel counts and refresh rates.


Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
John is right. I am not a electric engineer, but something like 300 to 500 Mhz, NOT 50 or 100Mhz is the point is which no visible degradation occurs.


Cinepro is putting 500Mhz switching in their DTC-10 pre/proc for this reason. Other than John no one seems to see this as a big deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
300 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Kit_C
I agree that the TAG business model is very consumer friendly, but speaking as a hardware engineer, it seems like a configuration management and regulatory nightmare.


With hundreds of possible hardware/software configurations, it would require exhaustive integration and verification testing to make sure that all configurations function as specified.


And then there is the issue of tracking each customer's configuration so that you can determine which customers are affected by recalls or bug fixes, should they be required in the future.


I think these are the types of issues that lead most companies to offer "one size fits all" products.


Hats of to TAG for the extra work that is required to build such a configurable product!



Kit
I agree completely with the above. It'll be interesting to see how TAG manages all these configuration/upgrade issues. From a marketing point of view, I can't see how the AV192R will work out in the market IF the base model is more expensive (assumption) than competing products that throw everything in including the kitchen sink. It's a perception and value for money thing. Add the cost of managing umpteen configurations and upgrades and we might end up with expensive upgrades.


Like most people, I too like the flexibility of upgrades in times where we have new formats being introduced almost daily. However, I've seen few vendors implement this sort of thing cost effectively (especially when hardware upgrades are involved.


I'm not sure if I understand the component video example. Does this mean that I can, for example, order the AV192R with no composite video IN/OUTs (which I don't need) and exactly the number of S-Video IN/OUTs that I do need? If not, we're back to paying for stuff we don't need. For TAG's argument to work, one must be able to order the exact configuration he/she needs - no more and no less ($$$$$).


Colin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,598 Posts
I agree completely with the above. It'll be interesting to see how TAG manages all these configuration/upgrade issues. From a marketing point of view, I can't see how the AV192R will work out in the market IF the base model is more expensive (assumption) than competing products that throw everything in including the kitchen sink. It's a perception and value for money thing. Add the cost of managing umpteen configurations and upgrades and we might end up with expensive upgrades.


The base model is an AV32R which is $4000.

In the level we compete at, it is performance first, features second, although there are some features which the market demands or you have a non-starter. It seems one of the most important features is upgradability, and that is clearly addressed.

I'm not sure if I understand the component video example. Does this mean that I can, for example, order the AV192R with no composite video IN/OUTs (which I don't need) and exactly the number of S-Video IN/OUTs that I do need? If not, we're back to paying for stuff we don't need. For TAG's argument to work, one must be able to order the exact configuration he/she needs - no more and no less ($$$$$).


Yes, component will be an option. But there is no need to get into trying to custom build every unit. Using your example, once it is decided to support S-Video, the cost difference between one input and 4 is very small. if you only need one, you are only paying a few dollars for the unused inputs. That is not the case on high quality component, balanced out, digital interfaces etc. That's why those are options.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,598 Posts

Originally posted by mag

Buzz I'm a little curious I read a post of you where you said that putting a tuner in the processor was not a good idea, and now you will?

is it DAB just or?


The current option is DAB. We are looking into am AM/FM as well.

It is not easy to implement, but if you see the way it is done, basically a component within a component, it is clear that great care was taken to ensure optimum performance for both the preamp and the tuner.


The only thing I have against Tag is that you are so close to MB, and I'm a BMW guy:D :D :D :D


Well, we used to be too!

I'm sure people wil find Mercedes even more interesting when the SLR comes out.
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top