Talk me out of switching to plasma



Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly13 /forum/post/0


Hmm if I understood correctly and you really watch tv on the 32" LCD a lot more than you watch movies on the projector, then yeah go 50" plasma, a small step down in immersion (assuming the ae300 isn't that great - don't really know) and a big step up for your majority of viewing. Congrats, you're the first person I've recommended this to

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Actually, from my reading, it seems the only reason he doesn't watch TV on his projector is that he doesn't have a tuner hooked up to it. Not a fair comparison for the projector.


I am in the same situation as he is, so I can speak directly to this. That is, I have a projector and a 32" TV, both hooked up to a tuner.


The projector is used constantly. The puny, whimpy, undersized 32" TV hasn't been turned on in months.


My reccomendation: Get a new projector and hook it up to your tuner/satellite/cable. You will never think about a tiny little 50" unit ever again. Your wife will be satisfied, and life will be good.

I have to ask - is the 32" LCD in one room and the projector in the other?


if you are asking if you should upgrade your 32" to a 50" becuase it's in a location that gets a lot of use (bedroom, family room) then by all means get a new set - we bought a new Vizio 50" plasma for christmas and we really love the picture.


on the other hand if you have the 32 inch in the same room as the projector, and are using the 32 inch more because of lighting conditions, then consider the brighter projectors as an upgrade, or do the plasma like you mentioned, (you will sell your PJ immediately one you see the difference).


I'll share my experience if it helps -

I had a 5 year old sharp xga lcd projector in the basement (light controlled room)

we had a 15 year old 50 inch mits CRT rear proj on our main floor (family room)


replaced the 50" mits with a 50" plasma upstairs.

observations:

50" 16x9 is no where near as much screen space as 50" 4x3

Picture on the plasma blows away old tv, and old projector, and all tube tvs we have.

I used to use the projector 5-15 hours a week.

I put the projector on ebay after 3 days of watching the plasma, knowing theres no way I'd ever watch it again...


For a few days, I fantisized about getting a plasma for our home theater, taken in by the bright, vivid colors, and the deep blacks.


Then the limitations of the size became apparent - upstairs, we sit 19 feet from the plasma. From that distance you can watch tv, but you aren't able to appreciate the resolution of the set (though you still appreciate the colors and black levels) When we watch anything with detail, I find I want to sit closer. I MISS MY PROJECTOR!!!


By the way, if I could have talked my wife into a projector in our family room, instead of the plasma, I would have done it in a heartbeat. A HD1000U & screen would have cost less than the plasma, and would be bigger. and I doubt brightness would be an issue - I would have gone with a 70-80 inch screen in that room. Anyhow, she didn't want a projector up there, and she's been great about my basement home theater so I wasn't about to limit her options in the family room.

I guess I'm missing something. Why would you NOT watch TV on a projector? If the reason is bulb life then that makes no sense to me. Why buy a $1,500-$2,000 plasma to save $250 every two years or so?


If you don't have a good signal going to your PJ (maybe something crappy like SD Dishnetwork) so you think it will look really crappy on your PJ, I don't get that either. For one, I would image SD Dish would look crappy on a nice 50" plasma. Plus, again, why not upgrade to HD (or free OTA HD). Assuming it would cost $20 more per month then your current set up (which it might not), you are still coming out way ahead then buying a plasma.


We watch everything on our PJ. Everything from TV (prime time in OTA HD is awesome) to DVDp movies (and recently added BR thanks to a PS3), to TV series on DVD (Lost has been great), to everything else. Yea I know I'll probably blow thru a bulb in two years. So??? It is still cheaper then buying a 2nd set and it is worth it for the pure enjoyment.



Quote:
Originally Posted by price3 /forum/post/0


Yes, the TV and the projector are in separate rooms, and the reason I don't watch TV on the 300u is that you can't see it with even medium lights on. The 300U puts out a great picture, but it needs to be in the dark. This means it gets used maybe once a week, if that. I probably sit about 12' away from the 106" screen, but close to the same from the 32" set in my living room. My plan was to move the 32 to my bedroom, and replace the proj. with a 5070 pioneer, but I'm sure I would miss the screen size. It's not that big a deal, but I tend to obsess about these kind of decisions. Thanks for all the opinions so far!

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Here's a few thoughts, and some things you could play with right now at no expense...


I think a 'rules of light output' refresher is in order...

I think it's well known now, that if you have the option of putting a projector 8 feet from the screen or 16 feet from the screen, that the lens lets less light through on the 16 foot zoom setting. (this is known as the F setting of the lense and it is a variable amount that changes from one end of the zoom to another)


So if theres any flexibility in placement, Try and move the projector closer...


Also well known is that the Brightness from a projector is like that of a maglight flashlight - the tighter the beam, the brighter it looks.


If you reduced your screen size from 106 to 82 inches, your picture should appear 2 times brighter (82 diagonal is 1/2 the screen space of 106 diagonal)


If you try that right now, and think, 'holy crap I can't believe the difference' then maybe a new projector would make some sense. Assuming it does, lets run some preliminary numbers and see what we come up with.


For arguments sake, lets say you could live with an 80 inch screen.

An 80 inch screen will be 2x brigher than your 106 (based on surface area)

yet an 80 inch is still 2.5x bigger than a plasma. (By the way, if you drop to a 60 inch, your picture is 3.75 times brighter Using your same projector at the same distance! )


numbers...

106 inch: 8'5" wide by 4'8" tall = 5750 sq inches

80 inch: 5'8" wide by 3'9" tall = 2734 sq inches

50 inch: 3'8" wide by 2' tall = 1068 sq inches
Now if you're willing to consider a new projector... You can easily double the amount of light you are already getting.


A mitsubishi HD 1000u projector (1500 lumens, roughtly 2x brighter than your panasonic), and a new professional looking, black velvet borded screen in your choice of material, and a cieling mount, will run you less than a 50 inch plasma without any kind of mount.


To me, this is significant. if you don't already have a fixed screen with a nice border, you'll really appreciate how it looks (my friend has one and his guests think he has a plasma on the wall!) and best of all - if you get a new screen, you're able to pick a screen material that suits your room, projector, and lifestyle (Call Carada - they'll send you free samples of the material so you can judge the picture quality in your room)


ok I think I'm done, not to try and sway you from a plasma, but I think the above is worth being aware before you make a decision...


- Jack

Good points, I'll try to explain a bit more...


1. I would actually prefer a bit smaller screen, I got a great deal on the 106" High Power, so thats what I use. I had a 96" or so painted screen before. How do you guys think it would look to add a wide (6-8" maybe) black border over my existing one, to shrink the screen size without having to ruin the material by cutting snaps off? (As I think about it, I may try this option first)


2. None of the fixed offset DLP's will work in my room. (I wish they only had 10-15% offset) I am ceiling mounted (8ft.) and my screen is mounted 12" from the ceiling. It can only move up higher, not lower. The projector is mounted about 12' from the screen, because that is where I installed the power outlet and the conduit for cables, if I move it much closer then it will look awful with wires dangling.


3. I watch TV with lights on because I have a family. Not everyone in the room is watching the TV, or may be doing multiple things at once (reading the paper etc.) I only have recessed lighting in the theater, so nothing shines on the screen, but I am used to this low lumen model and have doubts about how good any projector can look in medium lighting ( I hope I am wrong as it is a lot less trouble to just get a new proj.)


4. Bulb use has nothing to do with my decision, I realize it is way cheaper to buy more bulbs than replace displays. The reason I am going to switch my display soon is because of lack of HDMI on my 300U, and my HD DVD player and soon my PS3 blu ray both output hdmi, and i like the fewer cables this provides over component plus audio.


Thanks again for your views all, this is why I love this forum. No one else I know even uses this stuff, much less be able to give opinions about options etc.



Quote:
Originally Posted by price3 /forum/post/0


Is a screen with 4x as many square inches but not used as often worth it? Do many of you watch TV on your projectors? (I never had a tuner hooked up to mine, as I don't like to watch TV in the dark and the 300U washes out easily)

Anyone have any advice?

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My advice is that nothing that washes out if its not in a fully darkened and light-proofed room isn't worth much. A home theater that works exactly like a commercial theater sounds nice in theory, but the reality is that the local multiplex has to be dark because it is still using the same antiquated technology as your front projector -- a beam of light projected onto a color-neutral screen.


Having to shut out all the light and mount the projector in a two-story high booth so an NBA star walking in front of it wouldn't block out the picture was state of the art in 1907 but it's pretty lame in 2007.


Get a big-screen plasma -- 58 or 65 inches -- and you'll have better technology and a "better" picture (within the limits of current digital technology, that is, 1080p is still not a patch on 70mm film) than the multiplex.


You'll also have time to watch more moves because you'll be able to open the door to your home theater and keep watching while you step out to make popcorn, go to the bathroom or answer the phone.

I don't know what projectors you've been watching, but there are many modern choices that are quite bright and do well in mixed light. The new Panny 100u is the chief among these, but very popular HD1000u is also very bright and with bright enough content (ie. afternoon football, not a dark film) it's quite good and easily 4x the size of your 'big screen plasma' (which is an oxymoron in my books unless you're talking about the $60k 100" commercial jobbers).


How you can overlook the immsersion factor, and the fact that you can get a whole room of people who can see the detail (with a 58" plasma 1 maybe 2 people can sit close enough to actually appreciate the 1080p-ness) ... and it's a third of the cost!


Depending on your light control, either a cheap 42" plasma for day viewing plus a projector or just the projector will be a great choice for most all. For the OP I suggested the plasma, but that was before I realized they were in 2 different rooms.

A few more things to consider...


I just picked up the Panasonic AX100 to use in my living room. Although it only has a handful of hours so far, I anticipate a lot of mixed use -- mostly movies with the lights off, but also TV with lights on, as soon as I get around to exchanging my cable box for an HD cable box.

After I finished mounting the PJ yesterday I was watching a few DVDs while my wife and I took down our Christmas decorations. I was really impressed with how good it looked, even with moderate lighting in the room. We watched a movie over the weekend in Cinema2 mode, and I was really impressed with how good it looked in the dark.


As much as I like the AX100, I am still looking for something better. And I anticipate that this is only a stopgap measure for me until I upgrade to 1080p in a few years.


You mentioned that the fixed offset DLPs won't work for you because of the high offset. You should look into the Sharp Z3000 / DT500. The DT500 is a virtual clone of the Z3000, and is available at Costco. So if you don't like it, or it doesn't suit your needs, at least you know that you can return it without any hassles.

Read the review of the Z3000 on Projectorreviews.com. It is nearly as bright as the Panasonic (despite the lower lumen rating), and only has an 8% offset. If you need the image to be lower, you can always use a drop tube mount.

Had I seen this review before I ordered my AX100 I probably would have gotten that instead. But now I don't want to be bothered returning it.


Regarding your screen... if you decide to sell it, whether you get a plasma or simply a smaller screen I may be interested in buying it from you.

In fact, if you want a smaller screen, maybe we can trade? Shoot me an email or PM.


-- Peter