AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 82 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a all Dynaudio set up and am trying to figure out how much power to have. I am looking to possibly purchase a Anthem A5 or P5, but think that the P5 might be a bit much!

Here's my set up: it will be 5.1 for movies and music blu-rays or DVD's and 2 channel for music

Contour 3.0 for mains: 4 ohms IEC long term power handling 200 watts
Focus 210 c for center: 4 ohms IEC long term power handling 250 watts
DM 2/6 for surrounds: 6 ohms IEC long term power handling 150 watts
Sub 600 which is powered
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,023 Posts
The mains you have are 86dB at 1W/1M depending on distance to the listening position (maybe room gain ) and if you want to watch movies at ~80-85dB reference levels with ~100-105dB dynamic peaks (or not) hard to say.

OTOH you could shotgun IEC power to ~50% of RMS power and probably have plenty of power at 100- 125wpc RMS .

With that in mind the A5 rated at 265 WPC at 4 ohms (all channels driven) will be more than adequate and then some and should provide plenty of headroom ( I would be careful with that amp though at elevated levels on those speakers though ). You could probably get by without much or any compromise with something at ~125 -150 WPC at 4 ohms all channels driven .

Maybe the Anthem PVA 5 at 140WPC RMS at 4 ohms all channels driven would be a better match for those speakers unless you are planning on upgrading to less efficient speakers down the road .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,520 Posts
Hi Pervrse. Your power needs will depend on several factors including:



If you let us know your generally preferred maximum volume levels for movies and music (preferably in relative (+/-dB) master volume settings), your approximate listening distance, and a general description of your room, we can have a crack at working out what your rough power needs are.

The calculations/method will follow something along the lines of these two examples:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...motiva-xpa-5-pioneer-1120-k.html#post29777842

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...-overkill-my-theater-room-4.html#post29485705

BTW, what AVR or pre/pro do you currently have?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,480 Posts
The critical information is the seating distance. But, from a lot of experience, I would say that you should have around 20 watts per channel at a minimum assuming you listen at a normal distance (12 feet) in a normal room in a normal home. Most of the power you need is handled by the amp in the sub.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,866 Posts
The critical information is the seating distance. But, from a lot of experience, I would say that you should have around 20 watts per channel at a minimum assuming you listen at a normal distance (12 feet) in a normal room in a normal home. Most of the power you need is handled by the amp in the sub.
On another forum, someone with Anthem MRX 510 with Kef LS50's just added a ATI 1805. He reports a dramatic increase in sound quality.

So keep on with your delusions it's quite comical :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Sorry guys for not responding yet! I been super busy I will try to respond soon. Thanks for all your responses!

I currently have Harman Kardon Signature series 2.0 for processor and 2.1 for 5-channel amp

I am looking to use a Anthem D2v or AVM 50v or the 3d models and a Anthem A5 with Kimber Kable Hero interconnects, speaker wire and mis. cables also have some good quality HDMI cables.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,480 Posts
On another forum, someone with Anthem MRX 510 with Kef LS50's just added a ATI 1805. He reports a dramatic increase in sound quality.

So keep on with your delusions it's quite comical :)

Of course he does. He would seem pretty stupid if he didn't. So you are taking scribblings on internet forums as reality and truth?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,155 Posts
Others have given you the answer, I will say essentially the same thing, but lay it out in a different way.

I didn't look it up, but someone said your speakers were 86db Sensitivity rating. That means you can reach reference levels with less than 1 watt. But to reach Peak levels of 105db, take considerably more power. This is how it works out, for every 3db increase in volume, the power Doubles.

86db = 1 watt
89db = 2 w
92db = 4w
95db = 8w
98db = 16w
101db = 32w
104db = 64w (close enough)

But this is at 1 meter. Mathematically, every time the distance doubles, the sound falls by 6db. However, many claim that in a normal room, it actually falls by only 3db.

If we move from 1 meter to 2 meters the sound falls by 6db, if we move from 2 meters to 4 meters if falls by 6db again, for a total of 12db. 4 meters = 13.12 feet.

So, we need to subtract 12db from the 104db = 64w

104db -12db = 64w

92db = 64w
95db = 128w
98db = 256w
101db = 512w
104db = 1024w

Though again, likely in-room the sound only drops by -3db every time the distance doubles.

104db -6db = 64w

98db = 64w
101db = 128w
104db = 256w

Bearing in mind, that average levels are much much less than that. At relatively loud volumes you are probably averaging in the 2w to 4 watt range.

Most AV Receiver, vaguely in the area of 100w/ch, have no problem reaching Reference Levels in a typical room. Given that you are looking at Anthem amps, I don't see you having any trouble at all.

The Amthem A5 is rated at 220w/ch to 8 ohms, and 180w/ch with all channels driven. That is an indicator of a very strong power supply backing up the amps.

The Anthem P5 are a massive 325w/ch to 8 ohms with all channels driven. Both a very strong amp with a very strong power supply. If you are using 4 ohm speaker with the amps, then you definitely want amps with strong power supplies.

So, it is really down to your budget.

Echoing what FMW has said, the size of the room is very important. How many seats? How far from the Screen? Tiered Seating? Room Dimensions? Etc....? It take more power to fill a large room.

All that said, with a basic 120w/ch Stereo amp, I had no problem reaching 95db average with 110db peaks during The Hobbit on BluRay. That is massively loud and very substantially above Reference Levels.

Generally, most amps can reach the necessary levels in a common sized room. But, to know more about the power you would need in your room, we would need to know a lot more about the room itself.

That said, I can't imagine either of the suggested amps falling short of filling your needs.

Steve/bluewizard
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,023 Posts
The critical information is the seating distance. But, from a lot of experience, I would say that you should have around 20 watts per channel at a minimum assuming you listen at a normal distance (12 feet) in a normal room in a normal home. Most of the power you need is handled by the amp in the sub.

No offense but 20wpc amp isn't going to do much for those speakers with regard to THX reference levels with adequate dynamic range e,g. 20 db above that and no you don't want to overpower the sound with a sub or subs but rather 'blend it in'
20wpc rms is well below the IEC long term power handling 200 watt IEC specification for the mains OP has listed which if you shot gun it is ~100wpc rms pc.
With a 20wpc amp you will likely result in a lot of hard clipping at any elevated levels on *those speakers* we're not talking Corner Horns or La Scalas here .
 
  • Like
Reactions: oneeyeblind

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,023 Posts
Sorry guys for not responding yet! I been super busy I will try to respond soon. Thanks for all your responses!

I currently have Harman Kardon Signature series 2.0 for processor and 2.1 for 5-channel amp

I am looking to use a Anthem D2v or AVM 50v or the 3d models and a Anthem A5 with Kimber Kable Hero interconnects, speaker wire and mis. cables also have some good quality HDMI cables.
You don't need hundreds of $$'s worth of high priced Kimber speaker cables or high priced kimber kable hero cables . ( Things like that are only good for convincing people you know to waste money, and maybe read Stereophile or 6 moons but don't know much of anything about electricity, ohms law or wires or signals ) you can use inexpensive Monoprice or Blue Jeans cables(or something like that) maybe these interconnects instead .......you won't hear any difference unless they added capacitance or something silly like that ,.

For your HDMI, speaker cables or your interconnects anything over $1.00 - $2.00 a ft in either case or maybe ~ $3.00 a ft give or take a little for decent terminated ready made 12-14ga speaker cables are fine unless you are talking very high power subs .
Anything over that and you might as well flush the money down the toilet........ (or send it to me ☺) in fact many 6' no name $5.00 HDMI cables work just as well as a $500.00 6 ' HDMI cable. ( pretty much HDMI cables work or they don't work at all with few exceptions ) anything over ~ 20-25ft on HDMI and your are looking active Redmere HDMI cables at maybe $2-$3.00 a ft .

You can't hear the wires and if you can somethings wrong with them or they added capacitance to make them sound different................ ( again just WRONG ) !

http://www.cnet.com/news/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#thetruth

Again Maybe the Anthem PVA 5 at 140WPC RMS at 4 ohms all channels driven would be a good match for those speakers unless you are planning on upgrading to less efficient speakers down the road ofc the A 5 and P 5 are stronger but a lot more money .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,740 Posts
OTOH the ones the OP has are mostly low impedence and low sensitivity speakers why muddy the waters in this discussion ? .....................
fatbottom muddied the waters. I was trying to clear them up a little bit.

By the way, the Contour 3.0 isn't that low impedance and sensitivity. Sensitivity is average or just below, and impedance is a little low but not nearly as low as several other speakers I've seen measurements for. I'd call it a 6 Ohm nominal impedance with a fairly benign reactive portion.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-contour-30-loudspeaker-measurements
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,023 Posts
fatbottom muddied the waters. I was trying to clear them up a little bit.

By the way, the Contour 3.0 isn't that low impedance and sensitivity. Sensitivity is average or just below, and impedance is a little low but not nearly as low as several other speakers I've seen measurements for. I'd call it a 6 Ohm nominal impedance with a fairly benign reactive portion.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-contour-30-loudspeaker-measurements
Well then if that's the case the Anthem PVA 5 at 140wpc at 4 ohms should have an easy time driving them ........you might have a good point there .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I appreciate all the comments! I have decided to go with a A5 and was able to get one new for a very reasonable price! My current amp does put out [email protected], but leaves me wanting more part of the reason why I want to upgrade it. I do think about a PVA and a MCA, but I like the design behind the A5. I think that the amount of power for my speakers should be around [email protected] So the A5 is just a little more than ideal, but just means I will not use as much volume!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
No offense but 20wpc amp isn't going to do much for those speakers with regard to THX reference levels with adequate dynamic range e,g. 20 db above that and no you don't want to overpower the sound with a sub or subs but rather 'blend it in'
20wpc rms is well below the IEC long term power handling 200 watt IEC specification for the mains OP has listed which if you shot gun it is ~100wpc rms pc.
With a 20wpc amp you will likely result in a lot of hard clipping at any elevated levels on *those speakers* we're not talking Corner Horns or La Scalas here .
I have read some on IEC long term power handling and came to the conclusion that it is similar to RMS amp rating. And some say that one should use 2times the IEC power handling.
As far as the clipping goes that is one of the reasons I wanted to go with the A5. I feel that it will be able to handle the demand without clipping! I also didn't want to completely underpower the speakers also. When playing something whatever it may be you can have a certain frequency dip to low frequency and ohms which would demand a lot of power at once. If it can't produce it...it will probably clip. Dynaudio speakers can handle a peak of a 1000w. I also wanted a amp that was stable to low ohm loads. In which the A5 is able to do 2ohms.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi Pervrse. Your power needs will depend on several factors including:



If you let us know your generally preferred maximum volume levels for movies and music (preferably in relative (+/-dB) master volume settings), your approximate listening distance, and a general description of your room, we can have a crack at working out what your rough power needs are.

The calculations/method will follow something along the lines of these two examples:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...motiva-xpa-5-pioneer-1120-k.html#post29777842

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...-overkill-my-theater-room-4.html#post29485705

BTW, what AVR or pre/pro do you currently have?
Yes I agree that this all plays into how much power I need! I am doing this in our main living room, which is on our first floor. It's pretty much a open concept area. Speakers should be about 12" from seating area and the room is about 18 by 14 and open at the rear of the room.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You don't need hundreds of $$'s worth of high priced Kimber speaker cables or high priced kimber kable hero cables . ( Things like that are only good for convincing people you know to waste money, and maybe read Stereophile or 6 moons but don't know much of anything about electricity, ohms law or wires or signals ) you can use inexpensive Monoprice or Blue Jeans cables(or something like that) maybe these interconnects instead .......you won't hear any difference unless they added capacitance or something silly like that ,.

For your HDMI, speaker cables or your interconnects anything over $1.00 - $2.00 a ft in either case or maybe ~ $3.00 a ft give or take a little for decent terminated ready made 12-14ga speaker cables are fine unless you are talking very high power subs .
Anything over that and you might as well flush the money down the toilet........ (or send it to me ☺) in fact many 6' no name $5.00 HDMI cables work just as well as a $500.00 6 ' HDMI cable. ( pretty much HDMI cables work or they don't work at all with few exceptions ) anything over ~ 20-25ft on HDMI and your are looking active Redmere HDMI cables at maybe $2-$3.00 a ft .

You can't hear the wires and if you can somethings wrong with them or they added capacitance to make them sound different................ ( again just WRONG ) !

http://www.cnet.com/news/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#thetruth

Again Maybe the Anthem PVA 5 at 140WPC RMS at 4 ohms all channels driven would be a good match for those speakers unless you are planning on upgrading to less efficient speakers down the road ofc the A 5 and P 5 are stronger but a lot more money .
The reason I am using the Kimber Kable interconnects is because they are XLR and I have them already. I use to do car stereo SQ and had these in there and have been just siting around.
When I comes to digital cable I will agree with you that it doesn't make much of a difference. It might make a difference if something is crimped vs soldered.
On speaker and interconnects it is my experience and opinion it does make a difference. But it all depends on what you are using!
 
1 - 20 of 82 Posts
Top