[Mazeroth]

Looking to build a sonosub and having access to car audio subwoofers at a substantial discount, I think I have found a winner. Just want to see what you guys think. I know most car audio subwoofers aren’t ideal in a home theater environment, and I’ve modeled a handful of them and you guys are right. But I might have found something here…


The Infinity Kappa 12†woofer models out extremely nice in WinISD, even better than all the woofers from Parts Express…for my application. I can’t have a huge 50†tall sonosub due to the WAF and after modeling the Kappa 12â€, it looks like a sure winner. Here are the specs from their website and also how it modeled out:

http://www.infinityspeakers.com/ caraudio / product.aspx?ProdId='KAPPA+120.3SE'&Ser=KAP&Cat=SUB *delete the 3 spaces*

http://manuals.harman.com /INF /CAR /Boxes%20and%20Parameters/1203se_f.pdf *delete the 3 spaces*


3.478 cubic feet (16†sonotube will be ~30in tall)

Tuning frequency = 23.80 hz.

-3db point = 21.69 hz.


Infinity rates this as 92db efficient with 2.83v/1m, but that’s more like 89db 1w/1m, correct? With the price of the driver ($50 new), sonotube, MDF, carpet, and port, I can build this subwoofer for under $100! I currently own the SVS 25-31 CS+ and it sounds KILLER, but I think I can sell it for $350-$400 (it’s mint) and build a few of these. This Kappa sonosub will be roughly the same size as the SVS (a few inches taller) and will also go a few db lower. I have a Crown XLS402A amp which does 400x2 (4ohm) or 570x2 (2 ohm). I could run two of these off it at 4 ohms and feed them each 400 watts of power, or if I want to go insane, build 4 for $400, give each 285 watts of power (near the 300w RMS rating) and shake my whole house!


What do you guys think? Any better solutions for roughly the same money? Am I nuts? I appreciate ANY and ALL feedback so feel free to post anything you’d like. One thing that does worry me is properly setting up multiple subs. I’ve seen where a guy had 3 SVS cylinders all touching each other in a room so they weren’t spread out. I’m not quite sure how to place 4 subs in one room


Thanks!

 

[rlj5242]

That's a LOT of power for a sub with 12mm of xmax. You want to be careful and not end up like this .


-Robert

 

[Mazeroth]

Aye, that is a lot of power, but if kept under control it really doesn't hurt to overpower a speaker. The sub in my car takes 400w RMS but I'm feeding it a little over 800 watts RMS with my MTX Class-D amp. I did have a 400 watt MTX Class-D hooked up to it before and with this new amp the sound difference is night and day!


Also, it has 13.5 mm of 1-way xmax, not 12 mm. That should help a little


Anyone else? I'm dying for some feedback!


Thanks!

 

[Greg_R]

Well, you saw what happened in the post referenced above. Not the best peak power handling (understandable for a $50 driver) but it still looks like a fun project! The only 'cheaper' option would probably be an IB setup. This is assuming that those drivers modeled well for an IB and that you didn't mind cutting a hole in your room.


Those Infinity drivers are popular car audio items. Even if it didn't work out you could probably sell them and buy a different driver with the cash...

 

[Mazeroth]

Too bad I'm living in a townhouse for the time being otherwise I'd think about the IB. Heck, scrap that idea, I can't even imagine talking to the old lady about that one!


The Kappas are very nice drivers. I can't find a single bad review on them. They retail for $200 each but you can find them on the net for $110-$120 a driver. The $50 price I can get them for makes it pretty tempting.

 

[brickie]

Actually Mazeroth that was a Kappa in the thread linked to..I wish I could chime in with new info but not sure..I used a Adire Shiva driver in my sonosub I just built. I plan in the future to do a dual tumult sonosub.That's down the road though.Wil be following this thread, so keep me posted.


brickie

 

[Mazeroth]

Hey Brickie!


The Kappa in the link posted was the older Kappa Perfect that came out about 6 years ago. These new Kappas use the newer Infinity cone technology (CMMD) and are a bit updated.


I did a model of the Shiva that you used and came up with these specs. I'll compare them to the Kappa specs as well:


Shiva ($125)

4.380 cubic feet

22.32 tuning frequency

22.49hz (-3db)

16.6mm xmax one way

87.3 db 1w/1m


Kappa ($50) (-$75)

3.478 cubic feet (0.902 less cubic feet)

23.80 tuning frequency (+1.48)(not sure how important this figure is)

21.69hz (-3db) (0.80 lower)

13.5mm xmax one way (3.1mm less)

86.01 db 1w/1m (-1.29db ouch)(didn't trust Infinity's 89db)


Kappa has a lot lower cost and a smaller enclosure, with a lower -3db frequency. The Shiva has a lower tuning frequency, more xmax, and is more sensitive. Hmmm...what would you guys do? I currently have the SVS 25-31 CS+ and love it, but was trying to get more bang for my buck, along with learning as I build something. I was thinking even two of these for $200, with $200 left in my pocket after selling the SVS will be able to outperform the SVS. What do you think?


Thanks again for all the replies!

 

[brickie]

Mazeroth, that's a tough call man.I love my Shiva,but I even plan on building another or a even bigger sub.Yes, i'm a bass monster! I went with the shiva sonosub, becaus eit was based on the kit from Creative Sound so I figured it was a proven design first time out.


Let me tell you,I have bass shakers but with this sonosub I don't need them.It can vibrate the couch and love seat pretty effectively.And this is in my living room that has a huge opening, plus an attached sun porch..Wait til I get it in a dedicated closed off room.Oh yeah,another reason why I will build another is the Crown XLS amp..I'm running it in mono mode and it is a monster!!!!!!!!That other sonosub would "absorb" some of that energy it's putting out.


Just no easy answer.some say 2 is a problem,others say it's the best way to get room filling bass.If budget is really tight,hey why not go for it.$200 and you could end up with the bargains of all bargains.The newer Kappa is better than older, and the guy in thread said until the "incident" it was awesome..


brickie

 

[brickie]

Oh, forgot this..You could even go with a dual sonosub design.Eliminates ANY possible problems of having 2 subs in 1 room.Aside from it would be a little cheaper.Sonotube would be bigger though.Theres a thread in the DIY forum right now we got going about DIY subs,sono design in particular.


brickie

 

[Mazeroth]

I'm thinking I'm just going to go ahead and build two of them and see how they turn out. If they rock, awesome, if not, I'm sure they'll sound MUCH better than any $100 sub and I can give them to my brothers or use them in my computer setup.


Check out this thread about a new series of drivers coming out. They look STUNNING for the price:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=9361


4 of these in my HT room when I get a house should do the trick, or go with an infinite baffle!

 

[rlj5242]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mazeroth Check out this thread about a new series of drivers coming out.

If Thomas_W gives his approval then I have no qualms about buying them. His sub and speaker designs are great.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mazeroth I did a model of the Shiva that you used and came up with these specs. I'll compare them to the Kappa specs as well: Shiva ($125) 4.380 cubic feet 22.32 tuning frequency 22.49hz (-3db) 16.6mm xmax one way 87.3 db 1w/1m

I'm building my Shivas using the Adire Alignment posted on their web site. It's 85L (3 cubic feet) tuned to 20hz using a 3" flared port.


-Robert

 

[Mazeroth]

That brings up a good point. WinISD will give you a model that you can go by, but not always what's best, correct? I was comparing what WinISD did opposed to what Adire has for their Shivas and I like Adire's projects much better. I can put these plans into a sonotube and get the same results, correct? I just wish I could find some good used sub drivers to help lower the cost. That's my main concern, getting the most bang for the buck. Any more info is greatly appreciated!

 

[rlj5242]

Quote:

I can put these plans into a sonotube and get the same results, correct?

As long as you get the correct enclosure size, then the results will be the same. Use the Sonosub Calculator to cut the cylinder to the correct length.

Quote:

I just wish I could find some good used sub drivers to help lower the cost.

The SAE1204 is a great sub and models almost the same as a Shiva. Or you can build dual sonosubs using the
DB Drive PL12D4 . The 15" model is being used with great success in IB configurations. Wire the dual VC's in parallel for a 2 ohm load. Or get the 15" model and put them in 18" or 20" sonotubes. That would would give you some good bass. DB Drive specs - link .


-Robert

 

[brickie]

After looking at those new subs, you got me wanting to put together another tube..I was going to wait but I don't think i'll be able to.When available,i'll be going for a 15" or 18" in a 20" sonotube!! May even drop 2 in it..Can't wait!


brickie

 

[Mazeroth]

Glad I could influence you to spend more money, Brickie! It's a vicious cycle, and I know it will never end. Kind of like starting on drugs, knowing it's near impossible to stop without some kind of treatment


I'm in no hurry to build the sub, just a little bored and thought I'd try something out. I may as well just wait until these new drivers come out and see how people like them. Probably will be worth the wait.

 

[brickie]

Mazeroth, you are absolutely correct..It really never ends.I'm going to try and be strong til next year when we move into new house.I know all it's going to take is one glowing review of these new drivers though to push me over the edge.LOL


brickie