[Neuner]

This is a follow up to my Previous Post where I've asked for suggestions on the best screen for a brighter DT-500 in an absolute dark room. With some of the proposed sugguestion I did the following test to see which was the best for my setup:


I painted a test screen with 4 methods, MMud with Silver Metallic, Neutral Gray, Neutral Gray with Silver Metallic, and Neutral Gray with a coat of Matte Poly over it.


I split the screen into 4 quadrants for each type. In the upper left is the MMud with SM, In the bottom left is Vaspar (Lowes generic) flat base with 22 shots of lamp black 'Neutral Gray', in the bottom right is Neutral Gray with Behr #780 Matte Poly, in the upper right is Neutral Gray with 1:5 Silver Metallic. Out of curiousity I included two samples from Da-Lite which are the two smaller squares in the upper left corner. The one on the left is their High Contrast Da-Mat, and the right one is the High Contrast Cinema. The HC Cinema is almost identical to the MMud w/SM. I really liked the HC Da-Mat, it had deeper blacks and bright whites.


I took screen shots with the following conditions: Absolute dark room, Sharp DT-500 projector in Movie2 mode, (econo, iris engaged ~1000 lumens), 110" screen. All settings on the projector were set at '0' except where noted. I set my lens to its sweet spot of 60mm with an apperture of 5.6. The shutter was set at 1.3 seconds and the ISO was 100.


My Wife and I definitely agreed that the MMud with Silver Metallic produced the best image with the most punch and most accurate colors especially with skin tone. The Neutral Gray's deepened the blacks a little, but they definitely took away from the whites giving a very flat image. It dimmed the image to the point of making it look like I was using the LT150 again. The poly helped the Gray some, but not like I expected from comments in the forum. I tried a second coat, but didn't notice a difference. The Metallic in the Gray made the blacks darker and kept the whites the same as the other grays so for me it was the same if not better than using the poly. If I had to choose between the two I would definitely pick the Silver Metallic. It had a better effect and didn't 'blur' the image like the poly. Overall the gray screens looked like they were dirty and needed cleaning. In the screenshots it might look like the MM section is washed out or overblown, but this was not the case - the screen shots of course do not capture the punch of the MM over the gray.


The following are the screen shots. I tried to use images that everyone should have access to.

Google with white screen:



200 level gray:



150 level gray:



50 level gray:



IRE Bars:



Color Bars:

 

[Neuner]






With ambient light. For this one I have all of the theater lights on which includes 4 can lights which don't impact the image much and 4 sconces. The sconces are 40W each.





With ambient light:

 

[Neuner]



 

[Neuner]

I'm using Fotki to host my pics which has been problematic. Hopefully it will be cooperative again soon...


Until it starts working again, here is a link to the Fotki Folder: http://public.fotki.com/Neuner/test-screen-shots/

 

[mech]

I'm curious. Why are you doing a gray screen in an absolute dark room? From what I've seen and read, you should want something white.

mech

 

[mech]

Now I feel stupid...

I didn't see the linky in the first post. Disregard my question above neuner.

mech

 

[<^..^>Smokey Joe]

Bare in mind that too really evaluate any different surfaces you must calibrate the projector and surface together.

Luminance is effected greatly with out of whack grey scale.

Dispite the several shades of grey you have used I see in the 0~100 IRE too much green near white, Red in the mid area and blue near black.


Saying that you are probably on the right track with the Top left panel.

 

[Neuner]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey Joe /forum/post/0


you must calibrate the projector and surface together.

Luminance is effected greatly with out of whack grey scale.

I failed to mention that I calibrated for the flat gray screen section in the Star Wars screen captures. There weren't too many changes made.


I've since sanded the whole thing down, applied Kilz and repainted using the MMud with SM. I used double the amount of SM, and Wow what an image. My Wife also commented that it gave the image even more 'Pop'.

 

[MississippiMan]

Hi,


One of the purported "Forces of Darkness" here.

(..that was some pretty silly "thread bumping"...

)


The posted results pretty much validate the original idea behind the use of the SM in a applicable White Mix that already contains Mettalics.


I'd like to see the % of SM you used in the 1:1:1 MMud Mix. "Double" might not be all that much if you doubled the original amount of 2 - 3 Oz. per Gallon.


Although some feel the need to advocate "Non Metallic" paints for what seems to be reasoning based on the belief that "easy" is better, it's image quality and presence that really matters .


MMud-SE was supplanted by RS-MaxxMudd ONLY to offset the amount of water required in the Mix with Poly to make HVLP spraying easier, and later to substitute the Behr WO Pearl & Silver Metallic for more "neutral" examples.


That worked, and the use of metallics made the "neutral" end results perform better on all counts.


EVERY similar or copied Mix since then that has shown exlemplary performance has contained metallics. EVERY Mix that does not contain such needs additional help such as a Poly or Glaze Top Coat to measure up.


That is not to say that great imagery cannot be had from well done "Simple Paints", or that such Paints cannot ramp up their performance factor by correct utilization of known "neutral" hues. But "Close" is not "Close Enough" and Simple Paints will never get any closer than "Close".


The emphasis on easy is misplaced on the true Image Advocate, and only serves the "lazy" in DIY people who can settle for "Close". And that is fine for them. On the other hand, laminate applications such as DW can be considered as good as "basic white" can get, and eliminate the need for any paint IF nothing but "white" is required.


But if a Gray or Silver Hued screen is needed to boost particular aspects of a Projected image, such will never work as well if based on a "Top Coat" approach as a Paint Mix that already provides through it's few components what a reflective Top Coat does seperately.

 

[Neuner]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan /forum/post/0


Hi,


I'd like to see the % of SM you used in the 1:1:1 MMud Mix. "Double" might not be all that much if you doubled the original amount of 2 - 3 Oz. per Gallon.

I had received a PM from Jeffcom back on 6/19/05 for the 1:1:1 mix (is this still the MMud?) which included 1 qt of Behr UPW 1305(?), Behr Base 1300, and of Opal Pearlescent. To this I included 4 tablespoons or 1/4 cup of Silver Metallic. For my new screen I added an additional 1/4 cup. From the PM the first mix was suppose to be closer to the Greyhawk and the latest mix more like the Firehawk. I never received the samples I requested so I'm not able to compare. The initial batch matched the Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema very closely.

 

[MississippiMan]

Well awlritie then.


Yup...that's MMud 1:1:1


.......and the SM ratio of both examples represented what then was accepted as desirable.


Darker percieved Blacks, with no loss of the quality of whites and colors.


Translucency was then, and remains now the key. A Base that provides only a "base color" with "no metallics" is a sinkhole for received light. It needs instead something reflective-oriented on top.


With MMud, the mix was already ideal for coating Mirrors, so adding even 5 Oz. SM didn't overly darken it up. But some tried 10 - 16 Oz.


Crush w/Spaklies.


Good to see someone following directions.