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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

All ye wise men - help a young bloke out?

 

I'm a bit of an audio greenhorn and I'm rather overwhelmed by my options.  I've got a 100" projector/screen that I'm looking to marry some audio to but my wife is only half sold on the whole idea and has set a budget.  I was considering buying the Definitive Technology ProCinema 600 package (PM600x4,PC600,PS600) because it fit easily in my price range and would leave room for a decent receiver with the bells and whistles but I'm a bit underwhelmed with the sub and concerned about it filling my big room.

 

Then I saw the PM800's and started matching it up with the PC1000 but I read you should pass the speaker cables through the sub's output for best performance???? Since when did that catch on....  If I get a different brand sub would I still want to do that?

 

I've got a 15'x20' room with a 9' ceiling.  I haven't picked out a receiver but I've got to stay UNDER $1,000 on the 5.1 speakers.  I can't do towers - the speakers have got to be wall mounted.

 

I like the sound of the DT brand but am open to anything that can wall mount and is under $1,000 as a whole 5.1.  If I can get speaker's+receiver for $1,200 the wife will even give me bonus points.

 

The receiver is a bit complicated with the video implications but I'm all ears there too.

 

So, 5.1 speaker recommendations
 

Thanks in advance - you guys are awesom!
 

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Where did you read that you should run the speakers through the sub? That was a common approach many years ago. These days, the usual approach is to run everything through the receiver. The AVR does all of the processing and has a pre-out that sends the sub only the audio that it is supposed to play (LFE and redirected bass from bass management). The sub has its own power source.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander  /t/1524033/the-age-old-question-my-wife-said-i-can-spend-1000-on-5-1-speakers#post_24522148


Where did you read that you should run the speakers through the sub? That was a common approach many years ago. These days, the usual approach is to run everything through the receiver. The AVR does all of the processing and has a pre-out that sends the sub only the audio that it is supposed to play (LFE and redirected bass from bass management). The sub has its own power source.

+1
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

The sub link up method was in the linked cnet article..

 

http://www.cnet.com/products/definitive-technology-procinema-600/

 
Quote:
 You can hook up the ProCinema the usual way and run all the satellites as "Small" speakers and let your AV receiver handle bass management, but Definitive recommends an  alternate hookup method  to maximize sound quality. Basically, you run the front left and right speaker cables to the corresponding inputs on the subwoofer, and then run a second pair of cables to the actual speakers. Indeed, it does sound a bit better--producing a better blend between the satellite speakers and the subwoofer--but it was somewhat annoying to have to deal with those extra cables.
 

 

I'm leaning towards 4xPM800's, PC1000, and some sub - not sure there.  Any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Can't link - no permission yet. Anywho - it's kind of below.

 

w w w .cnet. com/products/definitive-technology-procinema-600/

 

A quote from the article...
Quote:
 You can hook up the ProCinema the usual way and run all the satellites as "Small" speakers and let your AV receiver handle bass management, but Definitive recommends an  alternate hookup method  to maximize sound quality. Basically, you run the front left and right speaker cables to the corresponding inputs on the subwoofer, and then run a second pair of cables to the actual speakers. Indeed, it does sound a bit better--producing a better blend between the satellite speakers and the subwoofer--but it was somewhat annoying to have to deal with those extra cables.
 

 

I'm leaning towards 4xPM800, 1xPC1000, and some sub - not sure there.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

For pete's sake - 3rd attempt trying to reply.  I can't reply with links.  I was going to link to the cnet article that talks about it.  If you google ProCinema600 review - it's in the cnet article.

 

Here's a quote....
Quote:
 You can hook up the ProCinema the usual way and run all the satellites as "Small" speakers and let your AV receiver handle bass management, but Definitive recommends an  alternate hookup method  to maximize sound quality. Basically, you run the front left and right speaker cables to the corresponding inputs on the subwoofer, and then run a second pair of cables to the actual speakers. Indeed, it does sound a bit better--producing a better blend between the satellite speakers and the subwoofer--but it was somewhat annoying to have to deal with those extra cables.
 

 

I'm leaning towards PM800x4, PC1000, and some sub - not sure on the sub yet.

 

Any thoughts on a
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

For pete's sake - 4th attempt trying to reply.  I can't reply with links or quotes or images.... yeesh.  I was going to link to the cnet article that talks about it.  If you google ProCinema600 review - it's in the cnet article.

 

I also can't quote it apparently but they said DT recommends their alternative hookup style - through the sub....

 

I'm leaning towards PM800x4, PC1000, and some sub - not sure on the sub yet.

 

Any thoughts on a
 

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I don't know why they would recommend that, all you're doing is using your subwoofer's crossover instead of your AVR and complicating things by having to run a bunch more cables, which also complicates your sub placement options.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osirus23  /t/1524033/the-age-old-question-my-wife-said-i-can-spend-1000-on-5-1-speakers#post_24524575


I don't know why they would recommend that, all you're doing is using your subwoofer's crossover instead of your AVR and complicating things by having to run a bunch more cables, which also complicates your sub placement options.

Probably because the speakers have a severely limited low-end capability. And maybe because it is a dated recommendation.


And you wouldn't be running them through the sub's "crossover". Subs don't have crossovers; they have variable low-pass filters and sometimes (as is probably the case, here) a fixed high-pass filter which is applied to any directly-connected speakers.


With those speakers and the continuously variable low-pass filter on the sub (no idea what its slope might be), you may be able to better adjust the overall sound quality than what can be achieved by using an AVR's crossover, which usually has a 24dB/octave low-pass filter and a 12dB/octave high-pass filter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

I think I hijacked my own thread onto a "hook your sub up" topic :/  mwahahhAHAHAa I have the POWER!

 

Any recommendations/thoughts on the
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saitac  /t/1524033/the-age-old-question-my-wife-said-i-can-spend-1000-on-5-1-speakers#post_24524846


Any recommendations/thoughts on the
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'd be willing to start with 2 or 3.1 but I'd the whole setup to stay under $1500 at 5.1. Is there really nothing for $1000 at 5.1?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saitac  /t/1524033/the-age-old-question-my-wife-said-i-can-spend-1000-on-5-1-speakers#post_24523622


Can't link - no permission yet. Anywho - it's kind of below.


w w w .cnet. com/products/definitive-technology-procinema-600/


A quote from the article...
Quote:
 You can hook up the ProCinema the usual way and run all the satellites as "Small" speakers and let your AV receiver handle bass management, but Definitive recommends an alternate hookup method to maximize sound quality. Basically, you run the front left and right speaker cables to the corresponding inputs on the subwoofer, and then run a second pair of cables to the actual speakers. Indeed, it does sound a bit better--producing a better blend between the satellite speakers and the subwoofer--but it was somewhat annoying to have to deal with those extra cables.


I'm leaning towards 4xPM800, 1xPC1000, and some sub - not sure there.


Any thoughts?


Thanks!

I'm not a DefTec fan.


I've done well with Infinity Primus line - often P363s are dirt cheap which is the deal of the century. P143s and 163s are good surrounds and the PC351 is a great center. That leaves moolah for a BIC Acoustech PL200 or BIC America F12 subwoofer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Wow... nice setup by my eye.

 

BIC PL-200 = $329

IP PC351 = $275

IP P163 * 2 = $260 (130/per)

IP P143 * 2 = $120 (60/per)

 

TOTAL = $984.... free shipping from Amazon

 

Great scott man - you've done it!!  And a might better then the system I was thinking of.

 

Any other suggestions (like per channel wattage on a receiver...)? I'll be pulling the trigger tomorrow...

 

Thanks for the hand holding I needed it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saitac  /t/1524033/the-age-old-question-my-wife-said-i-can-spend-1000-on-5-1-speakers/0_100#post_24526375

 

Wow... nice setup by my eye.

 

BIC PL-200 = $329

IP PC351 = $275

IP P163 * 2 = $260 (130/per)

IP P143 * 2 = $120 (60/per)

 

TOTAL = $984.... free shipping from Amazon

 

Great scott man - you've done it!!  And a might better then the system I was thinking of.

 

Any other suggestions (like per channel wattage on a receiver...)? I'll be pulling the trigger tomorrow...

 

Thanks for the hand holding I needed it.
 

If I were buying Infinity Primus speakers, I personally would go with the Infinity Primus P153 for all channels ( currently $75.71 each at Amazon ), and then have more money for the subwoofer.  That model seems to go deep enough for an 80Hz crossover.  You could then step up to an SVS PB-1000 , which is a significantly better subwoofer.  And you would have perfect voice matching for all channels, as they are the exact same speaker for all channels.
 

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Before I'd "rush" out to buy the first thing somebody recommended that was in my price range, I'd relax, take a breath, and looked into used. Audiogon, etc where you can get great deals. hell, I easily have $5,000 worth of speakers in my system that I paid less than $1,500 for.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by htcritic  /t/1524033/the-age-old-question-my-wife-said-i-can-spend-1000-on-5-1-speakers#post_24528619


Before I'd "rush" out to buy the first thing somebody recommended that was in my price range, I'd relax, take a breath, and looked into used. Audiogon, etc where you can get great deals. hell, I easily have $5,000 worth of speakers in my system that I paid less than $1,500 for.

Buying used speakers is one of the riskiest plays around. Shipping is a killer and hidden damage is a major exposure.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by htcritic  /t/1524033/the-age-old-question-my-wife-said-i-can-spend-1000-on-5-1-speakers#post_24528619


Before I'd "rush" out to buy the first thing somebody recommended that was in my price range, I'd relax, take a breath, and looked into used. Audiogon, etc where you can get great deals. hell, I easily have $5,000 worth of speakers in my system that I paid less than $1,500 for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1524033/the-age-old-question-my-wife-said-i-can-spend-1000-on-5-1-speakers#post_24530316


Buying used speakers is one of the riskiest plays around. Shipping is a killer and hidden damage is a major exposure.

Sure it's a risk - but you can get some great deals. I have bought and sold - getting and giving great deals.


The other thing to do is look for end-of-line selloffs. Find some great speakers that are being sold off cheap (I got my 5.0 when the Kef iQx series were ending for $700, excellent deal).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saitac  /t/1524033/the-age-old-question-my-wife-said-i-can-spend-1000-on-5-1-speakers#post_24526375


Wow... nice setup by my eye.


BIC PL-200 = $329

IP PC351 = $275

IP P163 * 2 = $260 (130/per)

IP P143 * 2 = $120 (60/per)


TOTAL = $984.... free shipping from Amazon


Great scott man - you've done it!!  And a might better then the system I was thinking of.


Any other suggestions (like per channel wattage on a receiver...)? I'll be pulling the trigger tomorrow...


Thanks for the hand holding I needed it.

You can save some money on the Primus speakers by waiting for a sale by Amazon or Crutchfield, getting open box from Crutchfield, refurbished units from the Harmon store online (when in stock) or from Fry's if you have on nearby.


What is your timetable?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1524033/the-age-old-question-my-wife-said-i-can-spend-1000-on-5-1-speakers/0_100#post_24530316

Quote:
Originally Posted by htcritic  /t/1524033/the-age-old-question-my-wife-said-i-can-spend-1000-on-5-1-speakers#post_24528619


Before I'd "rush" out to buy the first thing somebody recommended that was in my price range, I'd relax, take a breath, and looked into used. Audiogon, etc where you can get great deals. hell, I easily have $5,000 worth of speakers in my system that I paid less than $1,500 for.

Buying used speakers is one of the riskiest plays around. Shipping is a killer and hidden damage is a major exposure.

Since he is, as he states, "an audio greenhorn," I agree with you. Buying used requires knowing what one is doing, or being lucky. And it is also much, much better to buy used locally than remotely, because of shipping costs and shipping damage, but also so that one can see and hear what one is buying before one parts with one's money.


So, I think he would be much safer buying new from authorized dealers, so that he gets things with a warranty, and without previous wear and tear.


That said, if one knows what one is doing, and is careful, one can often get much better deals on used gear. If one screws up, though, a mistake can be costly.
 
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