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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Current State

FINISHED!
With construction, not the equipment, of course.





Fabric ceiling


Closer shot of the fabric ceiling from the riser facing the screen wall


Overexposed this picture on accident and didn't realize it until after I posted it.






iRule Screenshots









Kodi Media Server Screenshots








The Beginning
My wife, kids and I moved into this house in 2006. We had several choices of homes but I picked this one because it had a formal living room that measured 19' x 12'. It was the perfect size for a theater. The reason I came up with the name of this build is from 14 or 15 years ago when I purchased my first pair of M&K LCR-75's from a shop in Santa Maria, California. I was in the Air Force back then and my wife and I had no money and we were barely old enough to buy a lottery ticket. It was income tax season, I had a little extra money, so, being an irresponsible moron like most 19 or 20 year olds, I decided to take my extra money and buy speakers. I couldn't help myself. I fell in love with the look of them before I heard them. Luckily, they sounded phenomenal too. But back to the reason for the title. They were priced at $375 a piece. I couldn't afford that so they sold me the floor models for $300 for the pair. After getting out of the military, I left the Central Coast of California and moved back to the armpit of the United States (Beaumont, Texas). I found a career in the restaurant business and then began my obsessive and disruptive pursuit of completing my full M&K surround sound speaker system. I found a dealer in Houston that sold me a floor model of the Center 750 for $250 in 2003. For a short while, M&K had a b-stock store right before they went bankrupt. I was lucky enough to pick up a pair of $599 Surround-550's for $400 shipped. Probably 4 years later, I found a pair of small LCR-45's for my back surrounds on eBay for half off of MSRP. The matching 550's were very hard to come by for a year or 2 after M&K went under. The 45's were too small for the rest of my system so I went on a search for the final pieces of my decade long journey to complete this damn speaker system. I would have been finished a while back if Dolby and DTS hadn't decided to add 2 more channels in the rear. But nonetheless, I finally found a pair of Surround-550's last year with the help of some guys on the Official M&K thread. Paid $350 shipped. Through the last 14 or 15 years, I've somehow managed to turn into this ever so patient speaker buyer, but when I was 20 and broke, I bought my first pair of speakers because they had a metal grill. 14 years later, watching eBay, Audiogon, and AVS classifieds for a cheap M&K speakers, I finally have 7 sort of matching M&K speakers. I say sort of matching set of speakers because my LCR-75's are the predecessor of the THX 750 system. I emailed Ken Kreisel some time ago and he confirmed what I already thought I knew from my own listening, which is that they are timbre matched perfectly. Close enough to a matching set for me. So you get the idea about my obsession with buying everybody else's left over theater gear. Everything in my current theater was B-stock or a floor model. But, that also means that I got some pretty good stuff on the cheap. Kind of like an old lady that hangs out at flea markets, except instead Atari's and shot glasses, I got a high end 7 channel speaker system for $1300. Now I'm ready to put them in a proper theater. And I will say that my current theater is far from proper. It is complete with curtains that don't match the wall color, drywall spots that were patched and never painted, an entertainment center with a Scentsy thing on it, and a really bad ass sound and video system. I can't decide if the decor in there currently is "white trash" or "frat house". I guess it could be either, or sadly, both.

So, I guess I should get down to what my goals are with this build.

1. I don't need soundproofing. Yes I know the benefits. I also know the price. I'm good.
2. No soffits, no stage, no insane lighting system with 12 zones and a star ceiling even though it would be pretty bad ass to have one.
3. I would like to take the current white trash decor, and turn it into what would be considered, elegant minimalism. My room will be modeled after this one,

but on a smaller scale. Hell I may even steal the color scheme. Haven't decided yet.

Equipment
PJ: JVC RS-45 (got it on eBay from an AVS member)
Screen: 100" Wide SeymourAV 2.40:1 AT Screen. I've had it for about a year. It's the perfect size for what I need. Plus my equipment rack will fit under it. It's new but I don't trust a private party to pack and ship a screen properly.
Source: Oppo BDP-93 (Bought this new too. Damn.)
Speakers: M&K 750 series except for the mains which are timbre matched LCR-75's.
Subs: Currently dual Epik Legends. Hoping to sell them and get dual SVS cylinders. B-stock of course. Even if I don't sell them, I'll probably still get the SVS's. Edit: Epiks were sold and dual B-stock SVS PC-12 Plus Cylinder's purchased.
Middle Atlantic Slim 5 21U rack
Acoustic Treatment: Roxul Rockboard 60 Mineral Wool from ATS Acoustics.
Fabric walls and panels: DMD Fabric from Acoustimac.com Not sure on the color yet. Samples are in the mail.
Lighting: Insteon
Control: IRule
Audio EQ: MiniDSP 2x4 for the subs, Sherbourn has a built in parametric EQ for the other 7 channels
Video EQ: Lumagen Radiance Mini (trying to find a used one. they are hard to come by)
First row of seating is a set of 3 Berkline Reno Manual Recliners (on sale for like $500 off). I may sell them.
Back row are Bass Millennium Theater Seats. These are probably the best bargain I've come across in my lifetime of buying all of this crap. Here is a picture:

They may not look like much but these are incredibly high quality. I mentioned this in another thread; I never understood why people would pay thousands of dollars for these high end seats. Leather is leather and microfiber is microfiber. At least that's what I thought until I sat in these. A local dealer sold me these because they were discontinued by Bass. They were in his high end room. They retailed for $4000 for the row of 4 and I got them for a $1000. They really are top notch in comfort and build quality. And I paid less for these than I did my Berklines, which are really not that great by the way.

I will start tearing out the room down to the studs this weekend. Pre wire Monday or Tuesday, which is when my mono price shipment arrives. Here are a couple of pictures of the room.

That will be the screen wall.
This will be the back
I'm gonna turn the window seat into a shelf for movies and so on so forth and what have you's.
This is the giant opening that sucks
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
I'll use this post to show the Slim5 rack design and my final (well, almost final) equipment list.

Room Construction
19' x 12'
60" opening for entrance that now has 2 solid core doors
No Soundproofing other than insulation
No drywall - OSB shell sprayed with a flat black paint from Lowes that costs $18 a gallon. If it's gonna be covered in fabric then I'm not spending $50 a gallon on paint.
7.25" riser
No soffit, no stage

Power
Single 15 Amp circuit I would like another 20 amp but that will come at a later time.
APC J10 Silver Battery Backup/Voltage Regulator

Decor
Elegant yet minimalist design
Fabric: DMD Acoustimac Navy for the ceiling and walls and DMD Acoustimac black for the screen wall panels
Trim and Doors: Sherwin Williams Latex Enamel - Black - Satin Finish - It's their off-the-shelf black. No mixing.
Carpet: Martha Stewart Francesca Winterthur from Home Depot.

Seating
Front: 3 Berkline Reno
Rear: 4 Bass Millenium Theater Seats

Video
Projector: JVC RS-45
Screen: Seymour AV 100" wide 16:9 with Centerstage XD acoustically transparent material
Sources: Oppo BDP-93 blu-ray player
Roku
Tivo Mini (Roamio Plus in the living room)
HTPC - Mac Mini with Kodi
Video EQ: Lumagen Radiance Mini

Audio
Speakers: Center: M&K Center 750 sitting vertically
Left/Right Main: M&K LCR 750's
Surrounds: 4 M&K Surround 550's
LFE: Dual SVS PC12-Plus Subwoofers
Processor: Marantz SR5008 (Replaced Sherbourn PT-7030)
Amplifier: Sherbourn PA-150
EQ: Minidsp 2x4. Soon to be MiniDSP 10x10 or Minidsp Dirac Live. The built in EQ in the Sherbourn doesn't seem to work according to my measurements and the EQ on the SVS amp works but is limited. Edit: Sherbourn replaced with a Marantz and currently using the 2x4 for sub eq.

Cabling
Monoprice 12 gauge speaker wire to all channels
Bluejeans Cable LC-1 Interconnects for all 7.2 channels. These replaced Monoprice XLR's. There is absolutely no difference in sound quality. Had to switch over to single ended when I replaced my Sherbourn 7030. Otherwise, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference.
Monoprice Redmere HDMI cable for in ceiling runs from rack to PJ
Bluejeans Cable Tartan HDMI at the rack

Lighting
3 zones/Eight 4" cans
Switches: 3 Insteon Dimmers
Controller: Powerlinc Modem and ISY994i.

Network
Moca Network with RG-6 Coax
16 Port Netgear Gigabit Switch

Control System
Software: IRule - currently
Hardware: 2 Global Cache ITach Wifi. 1 for Serial and 1 for IR. Stay away from the GC-100's if you are using more than just IR!






Here is the final design of my equipment rack on Racktools. It is a little different than my original. I wanted all the equipment that wasn't going to be neatly mounted with rack ears or a custom RSH shelf to be concealed. I also added a drawer under the Oppo. I hid the switch, ISY 994i, Lumagen Radiance Mini, and cable box on two 2U universal rack shelves which are mounted on the rear rack rails and then covered them with blank panels. I also was going to rack mount my APC UPS but decided to let that just sit on the floor behind the screen wall panels. It's silver in color and not black like the rest of the gear so I thought it wouldn't look right.


Here is the actual rack











Here's the original rack design:
 

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I like your approach too. Except for maybe the lighting controller, which I Ebay'ed to keep

costs down. It's a great design feature for a minimalistic room. Have you considered future proofing

the wiring to accommodate one down the road?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Welcome gentlemen! Thank you for joining and I look forward to your input. I got the low voltage wiring done last night with the exception of running cat5 to the PJ because I forgot. That will be taken care of today along with electrical, and hanging my register boxes. I also got the HVAC ductwork finished. I was nervous about that since I had never messed with it before but I think it turned out fine. I had to convert metal ductwork to flex duct. This was the part of the build that I was most nervous about but once I got up there and found where the joints were in the metal ducts, it was easy going.
Quote:
I like your approach too. Except for maybe the lighting controller, which I Ebay'ed to keep

costs down. It's a great design feature for a minimalistic room. Have you considered future proofing

the wiring to accommodate one down the road?
I think I'm going to stick with the Insteon. I have planned on running conduit and an extra outlet box to accommodate for another 20 amp circuit in the future. Currently the room is on a 15 amp circuit that has never tripped while running dual subs, a PJ, and a dedicated amp. But if I decide to upgrade the amp in the future to something more powerful, then the electrician will have an easier time with fishing wire, and thus hopefully, a smaller invoice.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Here is the layout of the room. I apologize for the eraser marks. I don't have a program that allows me to draw room schematics like some of these guys have. Each square on the graph paper is 6 inches.


You can see the old vent locations and where I would like to put the new ones. Currently there is no return in this room. I have a central return in my hallway. No rooms have dedicated returns, I'm assuming, since the house is only 1600 sq. ft. The kitchen and living area along with the theater room, are all open doorways. I spoke with an HVAC guy at the supply house yesterday and he said that since I'm installing double doors and that the room will be closed most of the time, that I should definitely add a return. He suggested just going through the drywall and putting a vent in the hallway and one on the other side. Kind of like a jumper.


The new vent locations are approximate but I would like them over the seating area and not running right down the middle of the room.


The small circles are my can lights. Again, locations are approximate but pretty close. I'm probably going to have to come out a little on the one over the door and the one on the opposite wall because of where my trusses are at. I think they will end up being 12 to 16 inches away from the wall. As far as lighting zones go, the sreenwall will be a zone. The next zone will be the light above the door, the one on the opposite wall and the 2 above the first row of seats. The third and final zone will be the lighting for the back row. My reasoning behind my lighting plan is this. I wanted to have 3 lights above my screen for a screen wash and also so that I could see my equipment if I needed to go up there and mess with stuff, but there is a truss running about 2 inches off center of my room and I wouldn't be able to center the middle light properly. Then I thought about 4 lights. Then I realized what a massive waist of lighting that would be. 4 inch IC can lights are $21 a piece. The trim pieces are $18. I spent over $300 on lights and I don't even have the damn bulbs yet. All I need are 2 lights above the screen in order to see equipment in a dark room. The one over the door is for guests that can't see their way in or out. The light on the opposite wall, is for 2 purposes: 1. On UFC night or big sporting events, someone will be sitting in that very spot in a chair we have to bring in for them. 2. I may sell the Berklines and get a sectional. A light over there, would fill both needs. The reason those 4 are tied together, is because of: 1. Money. Light switches are $55 a piece. 2. Those 4 lights being on but dimmed during a sporting event, or if someone is eating there, will not be a distraction from what's on screen. The only other lights I could tie them to would be the screen wall and that would be stupid. Obviously the 2 cans in the back are for the back row of seating.


If anyone has any suggestions, then please get them out here so I don't screw anything up.
 

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If you have the option put the supply vents in the front of the room, IMHO we are more accustomed and comfortable feeling a draft in the face then down the back of your neck. Then add return near the rear where it can suck out the warm projector exhaust.


If you are going for any degree of soundproofing your HVAC guy is sabotaging your efforts, yes you can put a jumper to the rest of the house, but it should be a dead vent. Basically a pathway lined with sound absorbing material so what sound goes in one end doesn't make it out the other. You may also want to add a booster fan in the pathway to increase cooling when you need it.


There are details at soundproofingcompany.com or search AVS for dead vent.
 

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Not sure if you have your lights yet... But why not just 4" retrofit cans and DIY backer boxes?


Do you have that photo you recently put up of the cement backer board boxes Jeff?


You could save hundreds on your spots... My retrofit spots were $7 and I later bought more at $5.


You could also just lengthen the backer boxes up front and use a pair of spots per backer box,

if you really wanted four spots.
 

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Discussion Starter #11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd  /t/1510918/the-b-stock-theater-build#post_24219668


Not sure if you have your lights yet... But why not just 4" retrofit cans and DIY backer boxes?


Do you have that photo you recently put up of the cement backer board boxes Jeff?


You could save hundreds on your spots... My retrofit spots were $7 and I later bought more at $5.


You could also just lengthen the backer boxes up front and use a pair of spots per backer box,

if you really wanted four spots.
Will the backer boxes be able to be in contact with insulation? I'm interested in this for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #14

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC  /t/1510918/the-b-stock-theater-build#post_24219325


If you have the option put the supply vents in the front of the room, IMHO we are more accustomed and comfortable feeling a draft in the face then down the back of your neck. Then add return near the rear where it can suck out the warm projector exhaust.


If you are going for any degree of soundproofing your HVAC guy is sabotaging your efforts, yes you can put a jumper to the rest of the house, but it should be a dead vent. Basically a pathway lined with sound absorbing material so what sound goes in one end doesn't make it out the other. You may also want to add a booster fan in the pathway to increase cooling when you need it.


There are details at soundproofingcompany.com or search AVS for dead vent.
Soundproofing efforts are nil. It's not something I'm terribly concerned with. I know all about the benefits but I'm not willing to spend an extra $1500 for a lower noise floor. However, I will see if I can draw up a new plan with HVAC vents towards the front.
 

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The backer boxes are both sound proofing and for keeping insulation away from the light fixtures.


Cheap and effective...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Finished electrical, low voltage, HVAC, and all the insulation. Got a few sheets of OSB hung on the ceiling. I should be able to have the OSB completely finished before the weekend. I'm not sure how normal this is, but my roof trusses are 19" on center. I have never in my life heard of that. The wall studs are 16" like they should be but the trusses are different. It made hanging insulation up there pretty difficult.


As far as all the suggestions, I wasn't able to move the supply vents so they had to stay. Wife liked them where they were. She said she didn't want cold air blowing in her face directly. I know this is hard to believe, but she is a woman and is therefore always cold. I said to hell with it. I also searched high and low for cheaper cans but decided to stick with what I had. After researching building 8 backer boxes, I went with what I was comfortable with and I figured that would save me time. Time is money in my world. I do appreciate the suggestions, especially coming from all the veterans, and I hope you keep them coming.


Also, fabric arrived today. I'll put a picture of my color scheme on here soon. It's basically going to be Navy walls and ceiling, black screen wall (of course) and charcoal gray trim and doors. For the charcoal gray trim, I was just going to take my fabric sample to Sherwin Williams and see if they could color match it. I'm hoping it will tie my back row of chairs in nicely since they aren't black like my front row seats. I haven't decided if my shelf in the back will be open or covered with removable fabric panels either. If it's open, I'm going to wrap the shelves in velvet and cover the inside surfaces with velvet also. Or, if I have enough fabric leftover from my walls and ceiling, I may use that. Pictures as soon as I have time. I don't know how you guys keep your threads updated so often.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Got the riser built last night.


I know it looks small and that's because it's made with 2 x 6's with 2 x 4 joists. It is 7.25" tall. My last riser that I had was a half inch shorter and nobody's heads in the front row obscured the view of the people in the back row. I used joist hangers and deck screws. Special consideration had to be given to how the joists were spaced apart due to the fact that I will have actual theater seats instead of leather recliners in the back. The bolts for the chairs are spaced 23" apart and there are 4 bolts for each leg, so I had to put 2 x 4 runners along both sides of each joist. The riser has 4 layers of 7/16 inch OSB with roofing felt in between each layer. I figured 1.75" decking would suffice. I know most guys use 3 layers of 5/8 (or 19/32) OSB. My decking is .03125" smaller than what I've seen in other builds and I think that will not ruin the riser. Of course, it was stuffed with R-13 and I will cut holes for slot diffusers along the back to turn it into a pressure absorber. I was in no way trying to design a Helmholtz resonator or turn this thing into a broadband bass trap. That is way over my head in the form of acoustical engineering and construction. Having only 19' of length in the room and having theater seats made building what I thought would be a simple box, into a bit of a challenge. It really made me wish that I had an extra foot or 2 in length in the room for regular home theater recliners. Then I could have just built a box out of 2 x 6's and ran the tape measure from wall to wall marking every 16" and then hang joists. It would have saved me several hours at least. But such is life.


Another pain in the ass was installing the toe plate for the screen wall. Remember, I'm not building a stage so I my 2 x 4 is on the concrete. I tried Liquid Nails with some weight on top for a day or so, it did absolutely nothing. The flooring I had in here for my old theater, was just a painted slab. So, I broke out paint thinner and a the hand sander and got the paint off the floor where the screen wall toe plate would be. I wanted to make sure that the liquid nails bonded the board to the concrete and not the paint. It actually bonded it to neither. So, I went and bought a hammer drill, a masonry bit and some Tapcon screws. I actually thought that this would be easy. Once I started drilling, I quickly remembered that this slab was poured in 1976. I also remembered that a contractor told me that concrete gains 90% or so of it's strength in the first 30 days of curing. And then, it continues to get harder and harder over what could be many years. I found out that concrete is exceptionally strong after 38 years. The Tapcons didn't stand a chance. The phillips head screw bits on my drill were being destroyed. So, I went back to Lowe's and got the kind of anchors that you hammer into the pilot hole and then tighten down with the included bolt and washer. I thought that I for sure had this little project handled. And I was right, sort of. Only it took what seemed like forever to drill down 1.5" into my slab. I went through 3 Bosch bits to install 4 anchors. This was by far, the second most frustrating part of the job. If there is ever a next time, I'm renting a Hilti gun. This part of the job turned what has been a pretty fun experience into something that damn near made me cry like a school girl.


Nothing special but making some progress nonetheless. It takes me a little longer to do a lot of these things since I don't do this for a living. I'm hoping to be done completely the week after the super bowl. I still have to design the book shelf that will be going in place of that bay window.




Well, back to the fun part. Here are the fabric samples:



Here is the carpet I'm going with:



Carpet guy is supposed to be here today to measure but hasn't called me just yet. We've had some nasty weather so I'm hoping we don't have to reschedule.
 

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Geesh! Hurry up with the theater build, already....it's been almost 3 weeks! LOL!



Nice progress! I hope that piece of lumber you fastened was pressure-treated! May I ask why you built the riser before drywalling? Just curious as it's normally built after the shell is fully complete.


Keep up the great work.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Lumber was pressure treated. The 2 x 6's for the riser were treated also. The shell is what you see. I saw no point in drywalling since I'm not soundproofing the room. I'm going to rent a sprayer for $90 and paint the OSB black. I know it's definitely a more raw approach. I did decide to hang linacoustic along the walls up to ear level or so underneath the fabric panels to help with some of the reflections. I couldn't imagine the reflections would be any worse than a room that was covered in intricate woodwork than just OSB. I know it's a little different than what everyone else is doing. Hell, the room before didn't have a door and had a painted concrete floor and it still sounded good. I'm upgrading every aspect of this room except for the speakers, so I figured I would be more than happy with it even if there was no drywall. By the way TMcG, I've been following yours for quite a while, and I am more than interested to see this art deco thing play out. That coffered ceiling you and that carpenter built was unbelievable. I had to show the wife that one.
 

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A true man cave - love it!!


And thanks for the compliment on the ceiling. It was a ton of work, but well worth the effort and we get lots of positive comments on it from guests to our home. The prep work with sanding and staining was fine, as was the four days of installation, but then I tore up my right foot and all I can think about was how bad it sucked being on a ladder for the next two weeks painting, filling thousands of nail holes, polyurethaning and installing all the electrical while the injury was still fresh. My physical therapist enjoyed yelling at me for months to come. But hey, happy wife, happy life, right?



I forgot to ask before - are you going with all three fabric colors for different colored panels? Those genuine theater seats are perfect for your room.
 
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