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Nice work Dan. I haven't read all the posts in this thread and at HTGuide, but i was wondering the design choice for the plexi to extend so tall above the tweeter? Sonically there must have been and advantage in this design, correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Tweeter diffraction and dipole mid modeling both suggested improvements with a taller baffle.


I also started the design with the tweeter about 1.5" higher, positioned like the one on the Salk speaker, but moved it down to improve the polar response. Still, the modeling, as mentioned above, was better with the taller baffle, so I left it that way after moving the tweeter down.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Here is a little update for anyone interested. I hope to have the finish wrapped up in the next week or two and then will make final crossover tweaks, if any, and publish the completed design. I used a small spare room we have upstairs to do the finishing in, since it is easier than doing out in the garage this time of year. I etched the logo on the Lexan with by hand with a dremel using vinyl stencils (that John over at AE speakers did for me, thanks John!) as a guideline.





 

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Simply beautiful!
 

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dlneubec,


I purchased a pair of Peerless HDS just for kicks to check out the SQ since its so highly reviewed and after checking out Augerpro's tests. (costed me S$360!) I really feel that even at low SPL the SQ is slightly lagging behind both the Beyma CP380M on DDS ENG 1-90 Pro waveguide and the Faital Pro HF10TX on tractrix horn, all EQed as possibly flat as possible. (though our hearing is nonlinear but at least we have a baseline for reference, and esp so with the tractrix flare). I kept the xover the same at 2k and everything's active, 2k should be high enough....and all toeing in nearly directly at my ears so its pretty much on-axis. (no issue with that type of sound presentation). The CDs just sound more hifi, detailed, dynamic, exciting. Operating below 2k would be the TD15M-A.


Not sure if its my amp (Almarro 318B, 18W SET, modded input and coupling caps, nice tubes), but i pretty doubt so as I never exceeded 100dB with typical hifi not so dynamic material.

Remember last time we had the discussion about straining the dome, well I don't have a high quality SS that can really pump out the power. Well not dissing the Peerless HDS, and some people may just like the more relaxed and less-critical kinda presentation....but seriously the DDS WG really performs superbly here that its hard to describe. If possible and the price is right I'd love to try John's WG as I am more than happy with the CDs performance.
 

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Discussion Starter #48

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2100 /forum/post/15957074


dlneubec,


I purchased a pair of Peerless HDS just for kicks to check out the SQ since its so highly reviewed and after checking out Augerpro's tests. (costed me S$360!) I really feel that even at low SPL the SQ is slightly lagging behind both the Beyma CP380M on DDS ENG 1-90 Pro waveguide and the Faital Pro HF10TX on tractrix horn, all EQed as possibly flat as possible. (though our hearing is nonlinear but at least we have a baseline for reference, and esp so with the tractrix flare). I kept the xover the same at 2k and everything's active, 2k should be high enough....and all toeing in nearly directly at my ears so its pretty much on-axis. (no issue with that type of sound presentation). The CDs just sound more hifi, detailed, dynamic, exciting. Operating below 2k would be the TD15M-A.


Not sure if its my amp (Almarro 318B, 18W SET, modded input and coupling caps, nice tubes), but i pretty doubt so as I never exceeded 100dB with typical hifi not so dynamic material.

Remember last time we had the discussion about straining the dome, well I don't have a high quality SS that can really pump out the power. Well not dissing the Peerless HDS, and some people may just like the more relaxed and less-critical kinda presentation....but seriously the DDS WG really performs superbly here that its hard to describe. If possible and the price is right I'd love to try John's WG as I am more than happy with the CDs performance.

You paird $360 for a pair of HDS tweeters?
I think they are up to $78 each last I checked and I got mine when they were still only $55 each!


I've not heard the other drivers you are mentioning, so I can't comment, however, most deep horns have their own set of drawbacks, as do domes, ribbons, or any other particluar driver solution. IMO, a speaker design is very much a holistic creation; a combination of drivers, crossover, box/baffle, power and polar response, etc. that springs from a specific set of goals to start with. One can always suggest alternatives after the fact, but those may not fit in with the overall design goals or improve the overall deisgn result. For example, I would not personally consider using a 15" driver up to a 2khz crossover, but others do.


That said, in the shallow waveguide, this is not quite the same as the standard flush mount HDS. The waveguide provides about 5db of boost centered at around 3-4khz. Once this is eq'd out in the crossover, it drops distortion at the low end by another 5db and provides more headroom down low as well for better dynamics and power handling. The standard HDS is often described as being too hot, which is likely due to its naturally rising top end. The waveguide provides a means to acoustically counteract that rising response.


I have yet to hear anything that sounds like tweeter strain at the levels I've auditioned them at, which is as loud as I ever want to listen. I've found these easy to listen to, even at high levels, for extended periods of time without fatigue, probably due to the low distortion.
 

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Yep I agree, very very specific goals and I know why the HDS fits your app in your case. Apologies again if I look like I am dissing the HDS dome which I am not, just I'm looking from the angle that the TD12H + B&C 6.5 is more like dynamic/high SPL high performance oriented (High SPL doesn't mean low SQ, i don't mean that at all).


Seriously I *WAS* expecting the HDS to perform better in SQ in lower SPLs than the CD+Horn combi namely the Beyma CP380M + DDS (actually I just got the Faital Pro + tractrix recently). That's why I got it anyway mainly from your recommendation and augerpro's tests, as I do intend to play it esp with vocal/acoustic music tracks which I sometimes do enjoy. But apparently its not the case.


Or maybe I have been listening to too much dynamic and loud stuff....
I came from the mushy girl-with-guitar audiophile speaker SET tube camp.


15" 2k. That's why I chose the TD15M apollo which actually is supposed to be better than the 12/10 inchers but scores low in WAF due to size (this thing goes up to 4k unEQed with no nasty stuff and if you +15dB 10k is audible but without refinement LOL!), and it does not operate below 80Hz. Read the whole story at the AESpeaker forum, but am sure you know the Lambda is not the regular high-performance stuff you see. But seriously 2k was chosen arbitrirary as I was more afraid of taxing the Peerless HDS.


With the CD+horns I usually operate 1.5k thereabouts - plus direct toe in (no issue here with me). If there is anything very wrong it would show up with the Audiokinesis stuff too (am sure most know the story).


The Beyma is not exactly high distortion too, its ~ 1% H2 at approx 105 dB thereabouts at 1m across the working range, H3 is 55dB to 65dB down. The quoted high-distortion is when it is blasting away at high 120s - "CDs are not low distortion devices" as one often hears being quoted.
Anyway if one is a Geddes believer, distortion does not even enter the picture (and "unfortunately" he has the tests to prove it). Again, audiokinesis "story" - if its distortion then many thousands of golden ears would have reported in the shows.


Converted to USD its about usd240 for the pair. Heh heh...I used local currency which I did mention. Most of the stuff sold here always factor in the shipping from US, prob due to no local distributor support.

Seriously I got it more for kicks and wanna hear how a dome tweeter sounds again, as I did "grow up" on dome tweeters (from Ushers to Scanspeaks R2904s).


Just sharing the info, if you feel uncomfortable in this I'd be glad to edit/delete the stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
No problem with sharing ideas. We all have our likes and dislikes. I try to stay open minded. Heck I've done 4 omnidirectional speaker designs when most people said "you can't so that". You may have seen my HOSS design on the 2009 PE catalog cover. That had a lot of naysayers, still does, until they hear it.


I know the Lambda's are great drivers and I have measured the TD12H and know it is pretty much flat out to 4khz. That said, there are all kinds of issues to consider in regards to beaming, power response and polar response, to name a few, with regards to using a 15" driver for a midrange and even more so with a large waveguide on the tweeter, because that pushes the drivers even further apart. The woofer will most certainly be beaming at that point and you will have some serious lobing in your vertical polar response with that kind of driver spacing and in room power response issues.


I'm afraid I will need a lot more convincing than Geddes has provided to buy into his distortion argument, when it comes to applying it to my listening habits and for long periods of time. From my understanding, he used 15 second bits of music in his testing and a bunch of people who were not trained or experienced at hearing or listening for driver distortion in a speaker design. IMHO, the short 15 second sessions say absolutely nothing about how tolerant one would be of higher distortion after a couple hours of listening. Listening fatigue was not part of the study, as far as I know and that is where distortion can really drive you crazy. In my experience, it is often the case that inexperienced listeners will often pick the speaker that stands out, is splashier, etc. in short listening sessions.


I've just not found the HDS tweeter, as it's implemented, to lag in any way with regards to dynamics compared to the B&C or the Lambda. Perhaps its the shallow waveguide. YMMV. BTW, what do the high/odd order distortions look like on the CD drivers? That is where you will find the most objectionable distortion, IMO. I'd feel better about trying those expensive CD drivers if there were independent tests like Zaph does.


Anyway, that's what is so great about DIY, you can have it any way you want it!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlneubec /forum/post/15958600


No problem with sharing ideas. We all have our likes and dislikes.

That had a lot of naysayers, still does, until they hear it.

Yep, that's great. Actually after thinking over your designs and goals, its not that difficult to understand why you did it this way, and of course you had aural confirmation of what to expect with a proto from Salk or something like that.


Your drivers are very affordable too and reasonably good in efficiency.

For me I had my confirmation with the compression drivers - I was like you actually, wanted a nice neutral long-duration listening speaker. And I actually had 3 speakers (commercial) prior to DIY....actually 5 but those Acoustic Energy bookshelfs and stuff don't really count dah....



But I would 80% agree that one cannot totally relax with CD+horns. Its not the distortion, but the presentation, perhaps with the directivity-pattern. There is quite a difference in presentation between the DDS 90x90 WG and the 60x50 tractrix flare even after EQ (like you said in room response, its not anechoic here).

But sometimes I can relax with the CD, at low volumes the details are all there, just a bit of EQ (stored as a preset in memory) to tilt it up to compensate for the equal loudness curve...wa lah.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dlneubec /forum/post/15958600


That said, there are all kinds of issues to consider in regards to beaming, power response and polar response, to name a few, with regards to using a 15" driver for a midrange and even more so with a large waveguide on the tweeter, because that pushes the drivers even further apart. The woofer will most certainly be beaming at that point and you will have some serious lobing in your vertical polar response with that kind of driver spacing and in room power response issues.

These are all real issues definitely at least in theory, and I have considered them. I really took a leap in faith and just bank on quoted experiences with real commercial speakers implemented like Duke's Stormbringer, Jazz, Planetarium (even Lynn sang praises), Earl's Summas, EP CS2 and a host of other "big speakers" be it commercial. The super high-end audiophile stuff like Netherland's BD-Design, Avantgardes the distances are crazy esp for the 3-ways! There are a whole lot of DIY designs which are similar of course, but then nobody would say bad things about their projects right.
The commercial speakers demoed in shows with lotsa audience would be a very good sampling pool.


RE: Point sources....coaxes are not spared. The response is not pretty! But from what I hear from users of a commercial speaker, not much issues after EQ.
http://www.usspeaker.com/B&C-8CX21-1.htm
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=294-653


Difficult to fix the problem eh?



Lobing, seriously I think I am getting more combfiltering from the wall behind my ears. LOL! But seriously from the measurements (didn't save them!) the raw graph does not look that bad. No EQ needed.


The Lambda 15 with phase guide does not beam much at 1.5k, in fact I like that the response this way is more controlled and directed to the listener. I was just fooling around with the SPL meter and it does not really move much (3dB variance) up to about 10deg each side, possible more. 2k is still doable. I EQed 10K all the way up and of course that beams - no question about that.


Everyone I met tells me that the 15 is the best sounding, followed by the 12, and then the 10. I know, it was nearly impossible for me to accept that initially too esp with my more than decade old audiophile background.


Did I tell you that I have a smaller dia 10" Beyma 10MW/Nd box, and the midrange sounds more fuzzy than the 15" Lambda. LOL!
That thing costed me usd240! John's stuff is among the best out there for the best price. (paid 345 for my 15 apollos and the USD-SGD exchange was still great then!). Excellent stuff.

I have the Fostex 206es-r too.....sheesh I can't bear to listen to that thing again. Lets see if the Banana cone rots.


Quote:
Listening fatigue was not part of the study, as far as I know and that is where distortion can really drive you crazy. In my experience, it is often the case that inexperienced listeners will often pick the speaker that stands out, is splashier, etc. in short listening sessions.

I know this "phrase", actually its pretty widely used by the dealers selling speakers (
) and its true to a certain degree. After a long day's work you gotta relax, ya know? It was part of my journey and I got this speaker (not sure if you heard at RMAF in your country).
http://www.acousticzen.com/adagio.html

Very easy to listen to, but.....



Seriously with tube amps driving good compression drivers and horns, its not as bad as its made out to be. I never knew that before trying.

I think I may be making a bold attempt in saying this, but actually nowadays I do listen to some pop/rock ya know the commercial stuff (I have been listening to audiophile stuff for the past 15 years or so), and I think the compression driver make a cleaner and better presentation in the mids/upper mids than the HDS. All not high volumes in the 90s. I was expecting the other way round. I may be very much preferring the dynamic snap of the CD+horn...who knows. My wife was listening to her favourite dialect-based vocal pop CDs and quite a number of brand name audiophile speakers did not make it - my wife prefers the CD+horn.

Quote:
I've just not found the HDS tweeter, as it's implemented, to lag in any way with regards to dynamics compared to the B&C or the Lambda. Perhaps its the shallow waveguide. YMMV. BTW, what do the high/odd order distortions look like on the CD drivers? That is where you will find the most objectionable distortion, IMO. I'd feel better about trying those expensive CD drivers if there were independent tests like Zaph does.

Your 2.8k point for the HDS is pretty optimised, from the Xmax POV. Custom Analogue/Augerpro's tests look good (the 92dB/1m graph). Zaph's website is just icing.


I can't find the test simulation I read somewhere, which concluded that with 0.4mm Xmax you can do 1.5k and run out of Xmax before you hit 100dB/1m. Its like trying to ask my TD15M to do 20Hz at 100dB sealed - not possible.


Unfortunately no independent websites for the pro drivers - i'd really love to get my hands on it. H2 and H3 from the Beymas is all I can get.....but from what we see the higher order should be decent too below 110dB/1m. Its hard to get close to what I get in real life, I measured peaks touching nearly 130s with African drums etc in the events that I do (i'm a pro photographer as well, but I do bring my SPL meter along sometimes + ear plugs LOL!).

Another point I am intriuged is why the 6md38? John was playing with such stuff and sorta concluded the dustcap always gives you such a resonance (6md38 would be 5k). Remove the cap and it would be gone. If you level it down with EQ or in your case notch filter, it would be 10dB down, but the resonance is still a problem just lower in level, esp 2.8k is less than 1 octave from 5k. If yours is 2nd order xover, so its approx 20dB down, or "10%". That resonance problem area is right in the smack of where its most sensitive, 3.8k I believe from what I read (guiness book of records or something). Esp your goal of low distortion and priority in making it sound relaxed overall.


Quote:
that's what is so great about DIY, you can have it any way you want it!

Yep!!!

Seriously I am thinking of trying to play with John's new 6.5 and its easy with just a sealed box and FG stuffing. A few months ago I did think of your issues quoted, its like "what if I tried". But then I'm on active, and I need another amp. So its $$$!. My stuff is all modular (bro thylantry recommended this), so its easy to add on or subtract.



I'd really love to try stuff like the RAAL and 8538 (you know the story on this?). The pro ribbons are low disto, CDs are inherently high distortion by design of the compression chamber (130dB, 25% is not unheard of, just that its low disto at 100-110dB range). I really wanted to try the RAAL and there is a local guy who has the 70-20 w/amorphous core, but then some of the specs like sensitivity and low flux density put me off (worse than the Chinese stuff). But definitely need more confirmation, they cost a heck lot more than the $78 you paid for the HDS! LOL!



PS. Bro, don't have to reply to everything.
 

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Managed to get the FR for the old Avantgarde Uno 2. Its 3.5k xover between the mid and high freq horn, so its supposed to be very big distance for that kinda freq (ie worse than than mine). Its at least 25" there. Actually in my case the lip of my WG is just covering the surround of the Lambda - i estimate just about 12 inches distance from acoustic centre of my 2 drivers.




 

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Discussion Starter #53
My tweeter crossover is actually about 2400hz, but don't forget that I have about 5db more headroom than the flush mount HDS, due to the shallow waveguide.


I tried the B&C 6md38 after comparing it to the PHL that Jeff used in his speaker. They are extremely close in specs and frequency response, but the B&C is easily available and about 1/2 the price. The peak at 5khz was not difficult to deal with at all. Using a bottomless notch filter puts it down a good 50db (see graph below).




On axis frequency response is pretty small part of the picture. Take a look at the simulation below. The polar response of my speaker at the 2400hz crossover, is in red. Notice how wide the lobe is vertically and how the nulls are aimed at about 30º. This points the nulls so that ceiling and floor reflections are reduced at the listening position. The lobe is wide enough that you can stand up, sit down on the floor, whatever, and the speaker still sounds the same. In this case, the mid and tweeter are 5" apart.


For comparison, I moved them 12" apart and simulated that as well. That is the black response. Note the very narrow lobes. You wouldn't have to move up or down much to get into a null area. Also, notice how the secondary lobes are pointed at the floor and ceiling and will increase those reflections, which is not a desireable result. These are the kinds of problems you get as you separate drivers, especially as the crossover point goes up. These are real in room problems that have a major effect on how a speaker sounds. Again, on axis frequency response is a very small part of the picture.




As many have said before, all speaker design is a set of compromises. I don't know of any solutions that don't involve them. We each have to choose which ones to tackle and which ones to avoid. There is no free ride.
 

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Hey bro, that's cool. Could you please simulate my case of 1.2k, 1.5k and 1.7k freqs? What I have seen before is not as bad as it seems....but I have never simulated my boxes before.


Its weird, the difference in my case is that I have actually listened to the different xover points way above 2k (and way down to 1k) just for fun, the compare function on the DCX2496 is cool to use and its on the fly instantaneously.
I'm using LR-24, but I guess I could try LR-48 but seriously that probably brings more -ve than +ve from all the comments I have seen....but never hurts to try esp with an active setup.


WOW, your notch is really deep, 45dB slope from 2.5k to 5k. That's a reaallly steep slope man....but as long as you like the voicing.


But I am not sure if I am getting something wrong or right in my setup, your simulations shows things to be really bad for my setup, but seriously I do not get any major issues on the FR graphs nor listening in the real world. But I might be lucky as its a relatively pretty well damped room in the MF and HF. (i'm actually sitting on a foam bed, and I open my cupboards to hopefully damp some LF.
).

Or coz in my case the horn edges are emitting 1.5k and that's not too far from the Lambda (only the centre approx 6" is emitting the upper freq ranges)...so the distances are way less than 12" in the real world. The larger waveguide/horn is very different from the topology of a piston-based driver. This would be best explained by the experts?



Your graph shows about 25 deg. 25 deg in my case is just above my head (there's a big cloth canvas picture there) and below is my bed (no issues). The first reflection points won't be in front of me....but I guess it will affect in a bigger room. But having good pattern control does not mean we can escape treatment I guess.


I think we may have opened a can of worms, this means at least on paper a heck lot of so-called good speakers are still pretty flawed.



Standing up or sitting on the floor? I have been "sufferin" all along.
If I get this out its probably just about +/-5 deg for the treble...forget about those lobes! http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%20tpl150-1.htm


I'll try to see if I could get down and use the Spectrum tab on REW to get us some distortion readings. I could not get it to work the last time I used it. You just got me interested.



PS. That tweeter distortion thingy is rearing its head once again in DIYA.
 

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Discussion Starter #55

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2100 /forum/post/15965694


Hey bro, that's cool. Could you please simulate my case of 1.2k, 1.5k and 1.7k freqs? What I have seen before is not as bad as it seems....but I have never simulated my boxes before.

The lobing will reduce as you cross lower. If I get a chance, I'll simulate that, but I would have to set up a passive crossover to emulate yours to do so and I'm not sure how much of that I want to do. The crossover topology affects lobing as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2100 /forum/post/15965694


Its weird, the difference in my case is that I have actually listened to the different xover points way above 2k (and way down to 1k) just for fun, the compare function on the DCX2496 is cool to use and its on the fly instantaneously.
I'm using LR-24, but I guess I could try LR-48 but seriously that probably brings more -ve than +ve from all the comments I have seen....but never hurts to try esp with an active setup.


WOW, your notch is really deep, 45dB slope from 2.5k to 5k. That's a reaallly steep slope man....but as long as you like the voicing.

Nah, not really. Notch filters like this are really common in passive xover design and don't negatively affect voicing at all. I could add a resistor and bring the response back up to a flat rolloff, but I believe it is most effective to remove as much signal as possible from the cone at break up. From a voicing standpoint, it is not really any different than a standard 4th order acoustic slope would be for a driver that does not have the break up. There is no dip in the finished frequency response, since it is so low in the stop band at that point in comparison to the tweeter output in its passband. Can't you do notch filters like this with the DCX2496?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2100 /forum/post/15965694


But I am not sure if I am getting something wrong or right in my setup, your simulations shows things to be really bad for my setup, but seriously I do not get any major issues on the FR graphs nor listening in the real world. But I might be lucky as its a relatively pretty well damped room in the MF and HF. (i'm actually sitting on a foam bed, and I open my cupboards to hopefully damp some LF.
).

Or coz in my case the horn edges are emitting 1.5k and that's not too far from the Lambda (only the centre approx 6" is emitting the upper freq ranges)...so the distances are way less than 12" in the real world. This would be best explained by the experts?



Your graph shows about 25 deg. 25 deg in my case is just above my head (there's a big cloth canvas picture there) and below is my bed (no issues). The first reflection points won't be in front of me....but I guess it will affect in a bigger room. But having good pattern control does not mean we can escape treatment I guess.

You could very well have it optomized for your room setup and listening position. I don't know anything about it. I was simply making a generalized comparison to indicate what a larger driver spacing can do. Most crossover designers will try to reduce the impact of or manage vertical lobing, for example, steering the lobe direction to their benefit.


I'm guessing you haven't done any passive crossover design, but have used the DCX to adjust slopes and crossover points to get to something that sounds the way you like it. You may find you will get better results with your active crossover efforts if you fully understand passive crossover design first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2100 /forum/post/15965694


I think we may have opened a can of worms, this means at least on paper a heck lot of so-called good speakers are still pretty flawed.



Standing up or sitting on the floor? I have been "sufferin" all along.
If I get this out its probably just about +/-5 deg for the treble...forget about those lobes! http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%20tpl150-1.htm


I'll try to see if I could get down and use the Spectrum tab on REW to get us some distortion readings. I could not get it to work the last time I used it. You just got me interested.

Well, many of us have others around when we listen to music or watch a movie. Everyone typically can't sit in a narrow sweetspot. We might have seating significantly off axis that people use or even get up and walk around, get down on the floor to play with the kids, etc., you know, real world stuff.


IMO, REW is a rather gross tool for getting any kind of usable distortion readings, or evaluating individual drivers for crossover design, since you get all the room stuff in the measurements. You really need an MLS based system, like SoundEasy, Arta, LspCad, etc. to do the kind of measurements you need to do crossover design and you need to do measurements not only on axis, but at a number of off axis intervals to really understand what you are doing when you EQ. You may EQ it to flat on axis and have a terrible peak off axis that you have no idea about. EQing on axis can cause problems off axis, so you need to consider it holistically.


Anyway, we are way off track on what this thread is about. I'm not really interested in a debate about speaker design in this thread, there is enough of that going on all over the forums. I just wanted to present a project that is thoroughly thought out and designed. The proof is in the pudding. It has already been given very positive peer reviews by a group of DIYers at the Lexington DIY, who heard it in a prototype stage back in November and I plan to bring it to 2-3 other events this year. Anyone who is interested can come and listen for themselves. We don't all like the same things, that's for sure.
 

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Hey bro, no problem....I understand your goals. Enough of those stuff.
It seems like in the industry priority in this lobing area is not very high. Check out the Escalante Fremont with a 12" and a R2904 (heard that speaker for a year in the showroom every week). And that's not a cheap speaker!
Definitely there is a change in "voicing" because the couch can only have 1 sweet spot and often many would stand behind. Thanks for your patience, I actually learnt something new from ya and I think some other forums the "hifi-type" guys would have flamed me!


RE : Passive xover. I was intending to start that, but after checking out what I have to do for compression drivers + horn I was like...
I'm definitely still "new" in speaker design, passive will kill me for what I'm after.


I thought very hard about all aspects before jumping over from commercial....and I don't have a lot of money but wanna try everything. LOL!


PS. I'm distributing a dynamic piece of music for test...you may wanna have some fun with that.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
They are finally complete! Below are the final details for the BaSSlines design. I'm extremely pleased with the results, which I believe are my best effort so far.


Included below is the crossover schematic, the simulted frequency response, the simulated polar response from 500-3500 in 500hz increments, the parts list (using all PE available crossover parts) and cost estimate for the pair, not including the lexan, the hardwood, mdf or veneer and finishing supplies and a photo in our main room.





 

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Amazing! You must be one happy man.


How do the passive crossovers sound compared to the active setup?


Are you going to do any measurements for frequency response?
 

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Very nice.
 

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I wonder how close the B&C 6pev13/TD12S setup I have is too your B&C 6MD38/TD12H. I also have a PHL1120/TD12S setup so I want to do those also.





Im active so far but I want to eliminate some amps now and I need to try and build some passive crossovers.


Very well done, very well documented!!!!
 
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