The Boss' Bidding Build

1580 Views 10 Replies 7 Participants Last post by sirjaymz, Jul 22, 2021

Luurrrrker

Discussion Starter · Jul 14, 2021 (Edited)

Howdy! Long-time reader. Never posted.

Been stressing over this for weeks now. Hundreds of open tabs... spreadsheets... playing with CEDIA design tool... Finally decided to post something!

I've been tasked with doing a home theater build for my boss. The home is currently under construction. The room was only designated as a future home theater on the plans at the last minute. Not a lot of consideration for the room was made. For example, the ceiling will have all the HVAC trunk lines for that part of the house. The ceilings will be flat with a height of just shy of 9'.

Some changes from the plans have already been made for other reasons. The purple wall was eliminated to provide a more open landing. The bar was flipped for some reason as well. So the entrance door to the theater is now in question. The yellow wall location is in question too. A bedroom adjacent to the theater was also added.

I was hoping to get the builder to leave the entire theater space unfinished but he is adamant about not doing the home piecemeal. Now I have to plan and specify everything exactly instead of being able to work on it as we go.

Room dimensions are 15.5' wide, 33' deep, and just shy of 9' tall. Thinking of a baffle screen wall 2-3' deep. The room is very deep I think. Maybe the yellow wall could be moved in to allow a small equipment room and an airlock for doors? Other speakers probably in-wall/in-ceiling... but current studs are only 2x4 and placement of HVAC trunk lines could get tricky. Maybe I should petition for a double wall?

Was planning on doing roxul or OC 703 for walls with everything covered by GOM fabric.

Builder is suggesting RC-1 channel and 1/2 drywall. I'm trying to get clip/channel, 5/8 DD + GG and fiberglass insulation approved at least for the non-foundation walls and ceiling.

Boss wants to seating for 3 rows of 3. I'm not sure if 2 rows of 4 would be better with possibly a third-row bar. I'm not even sure which way to have the room. The door will probably need to be somewhere on the yellow wall. That could leave you walking up and then down a riser to get to the front row... or an isle on one side to walk all the way around the front row to get to the riser steps...

Was thinking 9.2.4 but maybe 7.2.4...

Rough equipment budget. Wants around $21k equipment only.

Speakers LCR: $1,500 ($500 x 3) (was thinking DIYSG Titan-818LX or 1099s)
Speakers other: $2,000 ($200 x 10)
Subwoofers: $2,000 (2x Full Marty 18" with UM18-22 and Behringer NX6000D, possibly upgrade to 4 total later)
Processor: $3,000
Amps: $3,500 (Maybe money could be saved here by going with an AVR)

Projector: $5,500 (Sony VPL-VW325ES-B)
Screen: $3,000 (DA-LITE DA-SNAP 20418V - 166" DIAG - [2.35:1] - HD PROGRESSIVE 1.1 PERF ??) Would be 12 fL with 1.1 gain and 18' throw distance...

Total equipment $21,000

15.5'w 33'd 9'h + including 3' baffle wall:

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mhutchins

· #2 · Jul 14, 2021

You and the Boss need to have a heart-to-heart discussion regarding isolation expectations and theater performance goals. Watching movies at reference and someone sleeping in the bedroom will not be possible without serious design work. Likewise, with all those HVAC trunk lines going over the theater, noise transmission via the HVAC system will be quite likely. Finally, movies at reference means 115db of bass, which will be very difficult to isolate from the rest of the house. RC + 1/2" lightweight drywall won't make a dent in that kind of bass.

Have you considered shortening the room a bit? The length of the current room is almost exactly double the width, which will accentuate certain room modes.

You need to manage the Boss' expectations, or you will both be disappointed in the results.

Mike

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Luurrrrker

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 15, 2021

mhutchins said:
You and the Boss need to have a heart-to-heart discussion regarding isolation expectations and theater performance goals. Watching movies at reference and someone sleeping in the bedroom will not be possible without serious design work. Likewise, with all those HVAC trunk lines going over the theater, noise transmission via the HVAC system will be quite likely. Finally, movies at reference means 115db of bass, which will be very difficult to isolate from the rest of the house. RC + 1/2" lightweight drywall won't make a dent in that kind of bass.
...
You need to manage the Boss' expectations, or you will both be disappointed in the results.

I forgot to preface my original topic by saying that I don't really know what I am doing. I've never done any of this before!

When I explained why he wants sound isolation before he has told me that people won't be sleeping while someone is watching a movie... the adjacent bedroom is for a college age student who lives there only part-time. However, his bedroom/bath is above the room! My thought is that clip/channel DD+GG should be the minimum and we could probably add some DD+GG between the ceiling joist too. For the wall adjacent to the basement bedroom, maybe I can push to have a double wall built.

For the in-wall/in-ceiling speakers I thought we should build backer boxes, but if the walls are only 2x4s that doesn't leave a lot of space. Maybe if the speaker protrudes from the wall? There will be 2" of roxul or OC 703 that could provide more depth.

As far as the trunk lines I don't have any ideas... there may not be a solution within my capabilities.

Here is the mechanical drawings. It is a three-zone HVAC system (basement is one zone, upstairs is split into two additional zones [I think?].)

mhutchins said:
Have you considered shortening the room a bit? The length of the current room is almost exactly double the width, which will accentuate certain room modes.

Yes. I have but I don't know by how much. I was thinking maybe something like this? This would allow a room to also keep the equipment in. If the projector had more lumens it could even house the projector...

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kevin g.

· #4 · Jul 15, 2021

Curious on how you got the "assignment" if you have never tackled anything like this before?

You need to manage the Boss' expectations, or you will both be disappointed in the results.

And with it being "the boss" ...I wouldn't want that over my head...

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Luurrrrker

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jul 15, 2021

kevin g. said:
Curious on how you got the "assignment" if you have never tackled anything like this before?

Because of my big mouth! I offered to help but I said hey if you just want something super simple… an AVR, some towers and bookshelf speakers, a projector… I can help with that. It just sort of snowballed from there.

I’m also doing the whole house audio and outdoor speakers.

As far as experience, I do IT for him as my day job but everyone in the company wears many hats. As an IT generalist who has mostly worked with small to medium businesses I’m used to it. I’ve never been the type to say no to doing something just because it isn’t exactly in my field. So I end up doing all things techy that I’m sure lots of IT folks would turn their nose at. Such as commercial audio/paging, security cameras, video walls, etc. It keeps things interesting! Just makes it hard to turn my brain off outside of work though. I’m always thinking about it… how to do a good job and thinking what all I know I don’t know!

Uhh anyways! End rant! He has been very happy with everything I have done for him in the past. I think his expectations aren’t high. It is me pushing to do the best I can. Hope that makes sense.

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BIGmouthinDC

· #6 · Jul 16, 2021 (Edited)

Planning your bosses theater based on DIYSG speaker kits is not something someone who values their job would do. I like DIYSG but availability has been very uncertain.

On your plan locate the door between the screen and first row of seating otherwise see if you can step up outside the theater and enter at riser height. Carving up the interior space with a walkway is a poor design. Your seating plan must assume bolt down seats as your plan has seat back to back from row to row of around 5 ft. If your boss wants power reclining theater seating you need at least 6 1/2 ft back to back. Front row is way to close at about 8 ft. Be sure to check the throw distances for the Sony and your screen size for projector mounting location. Remember to check 2.35 and 16:9 positions. You need to do the calculation twice. fitting the 2.35 image on the width and fitting the 16:9 on the height of your 2.35 screen. The possible projector mount is the overlap of those ranges.

A three row theater in a 9 ft room will require careful planning for unobstructed views.

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squared80

· #7 · Jul 17, 2021

Where's the budget for sound isolation and especially acoustical treatments? And why such a lowball number on the LCR speakers. Skimp on the others, if need be.

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Luurrrrker

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jul 21, 2021

BIGmouthinDC said:
Planning your bosses theater based on DIYSG speaker kits is not something someone who values their job would do. I like DIYSG but availability has been very uncertain.

On your plan locate the door between the screen and first row of seating otherwise see if you can step up outside the theater and enter at riser height. Carving up the interior space with a walkway is a poor design. Your seating plan must assume bolt down seats as your plan has seat back to back from row to row of around 5 ft. If your boss wants power reclining theater seating you need at least 6 1/2 ft back to back. Front row is way to close at about 8 ft. Be sure to check the throw distances for the Sony and your screen size for projector mounting location. Remember to check 2.35 and 16:9 positions. You need to do the calculation twice. fitting the 2.35 image on the width and fitting the 16:9 on the height of your 2.35 screen. The possible projector mount is the overlap of those ranges.

A three row theater in a 9 ft room will require careful planning for unobstructed views.

Thank you so much, Jeff!

We are going to work with Tim Westerfield on sound isolation. Boss is onboard with wall, ceiling, and floor treatment. The adjoining bedroom has been delegated as the 3rd extra bedroom and will most likely not be used more than a few times a year.

The new thought is to do 2 rows of 4 using a couch with double chaise on the front row and 4 shared armrest seats for the rear. Some small counter seating at the rear too.

Shortening up the room depth by adding an airlock and two storage rooms, one of which will have the rack. Step up in airlock to the single riser. No option to enter except via the rear because the other wall is totally covered with a bar

Boss is okay with a temporary 3.2 setup using existing speakers if we decide to go DIYSG, but I'm open to other options too. That may mean raising the budget for the fronts and lowering it for the other channels?

This is a super rough sketchup...

Here are some current pictures:

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squared80

· #9 · Jul 21, 2021

Hello, HVAC!!! Wooh, baby.

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DougUSMC

· #10 · Jul 21, 2021

BIGmouthinDC said:
Planning your bosses theater based on DIYSG speaker kits is not something someone who values their job would do. I like DIYSG but availability has been very uncertain.

I second Jeff on this. I just sold 6 of mine when we remodeled the theater. I can tell you I got MORE than I paid for them new, b/c availability was so tough lately.

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sirjaymz

· #11 · Jul 22, 2021

Just some things I would be on top of ...
I would be having some Dynamat (or similar) attached to all that HVAC ducting now.
Make sure you have enough power circuits going to the gear location. Room lights on a separate circuit.
Make sure to stuff insulation in all those floor joist crevices around the HVAC ducting.
Use 12awg wire for all speaker runs.
Are we doing DD/GG , clips and channel? Whats the sound proof strategy?
Build Riser / soffit after drywall has been installed in the room.
Make sure the HVAC supply's are at the front of the room, and the returns at the back of the room.
Insulate pipe's with pipe insulation. Doesn't matter what kind of pipe it is, just insulate it.
Ensure you have room outlets spacing per local code.
If using backer boxes, get them installed now for lights, and Atmos speakers. Example of triple layer one. (This might be a little overkill).
Determine where Atmos speaker placement is going to be. Looks to be difficult with all that HVAC ducting.

Good Luck.

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