[dvmdoc]

Many of you will know I'm dealing with an ailing 1292 right now. It's forced me back into the marketplace to see what my options are. So I visit a local specialty HT dealer and they are SO motivated to get their Runco 992 off the ceiling it's not even funny (great deal). Simply put, while the HT market is booming the CRT market is dwindling fast. These guys just can't sell them like they can the digital units. We all know the reasons why the "average consumer" wants the DLPs/DILAs over the CRTs. As the owner of this store said, the pool of people still willing to put a big CRT in their rooms is shrinking at an exponential rate.

I know this is the CRT forum but I saw the latest Marantz (VP3 moniker or something) plus the Runco 710. Didn't see the Sharp 12000 anywhere or the JVC 3-chip DILA HX1. What I saw looked very good. The older I get (3rd - and final! - child due in 14d) the less time I have for this "hobby" (did someone say obsession?) and I just want it to be easy already. Enough with the size, weight, loudness, calibrations, trying to find a service person, etc.

Personally, I feel that the next 12-18months will be sort of a watershed time for the projection industry. We'll have to see what shakes out. In the interim, I hope my 1292 comes back to life but failing that, for the reasons mentioned above, I'll magically become that average consumer at this life stage!

Other thoughtful insight welcome to the discussion-

Warren

 

[Krynos]

The moment I can get the same (or better) performance from a small, lightweight, economical to run digital unit --- I'll most likely buy one. I'm not going to comprise until the digital pj's can offer what my CRT can, including the durabilty. I'd put up with on going bulb expense as long as the unit itself is robust enough to last like a CRT, and the bulbs arn't extortionate and are available for the life of the unit.


Personally I don't see that happening in the immediate future, and I'm hopeful that the used / reconditioned market on CRT's will hold out long enough to get us to the point of a replacement technology.


Until then... *no comprimses*!!!


- Rick

 

[stylinlp]

So which Digital unit can you buy for around $1000 that will beat any CRT projector I can buy on Ebay? lol


I know this isnt about you but when I try to explain to friends about CRT projectors they start spouting off about what they read in their magazine about some new miracle digital projector thats sent from god. Then after hearing 10 min of them telling me stats they tell me its not out yet but will cost $20k. Man, I get so irked they wasted my time with that nonsense. Its as if they never heard a word I said.

 

[Clarence]

Warren-


I'll be more supportive because of a visit with friends this weekend... They saw my Marquee and started asking how they could get one. But since I know them, I also know they wouldn't have the mindset or enjoy the demented learning, troubleshooting, and setup investment required to setup, optimize, and maintain a CRT. I proposed a $999 plug-and-play dPJ for them.


Similarly, I had a coworker come over for a Christmas party. He fell in love with my CRT and the whole HT vision. But he lives in a 2 bedroom condo with no large walls, tiny rooms, and poor light control. Again, I suspect a dPJ may be better suited for them.


I enjoy the time I put into this new hobby, but I can sympathize with your need for other options, especially after a troublesome PJ failure.


Keep your options open, even if the options are d!%!#@!. I won't think any less of you if you end up sacrificing the benefits of CRT for more convenient HT options. Hobbies are fun, but the time spent with family is priceless.


Congratulations and best wishes for your growing family.


-Clarence

 

[dokworm]

I have found that as time goes on I get more realistic about my 'obsessions' and my interest in them fades away. Do I ever just sit in my 'sweet spot' in a quiet room to listen to music anymore? I have a 3 yr old are you kidding?

The higher maintenance/fun to work on turbo car went out the door too and was replaced with an incredibly reliable, if a little dull mitsubishi Magna, and at this stage, if I could afford a top notch digital pj I would probably go over to the (not so) dark side myself.

I find myself less interested in tweaking toys, and more interested in spending time with my kids these days - so I know exactly where you are coming from. Life changes, priorites change and 'obsessions'? I haven't got time for them much anymore.

So, if you can get a great deal on a digital, with an extended warranty, I'd do it, and free up all those hours to do other things...

nd with kids it is great fun to take the projector into different places. When I had a high output Sony LCD whe had an outdoor movie night once with a 8m (24ft) wide screen - lotsa fun!

 

[jcmccorm]

Clarence, same deal here. A lot of my buddies like the HT idea. A few of them wouldn't do anything but CRT because they want the advantages of it and are willing to go through the trouble to learn how to set it up. (And they have) There are others though that I gladly recommend they go get a digital. Sometimes because of there room environment, and other times because I know them well enough to know that if they can't set it up in 5 minutes, they aren't going to be happy.


Cary

 

[Brian Hampton]

dvmdoc,


I have 2 kids also.. Congrats on the upcomming one and the notion that's enough. I hope you ponder this digital decision long enough for me to save up enough money to buy you failing 1292. I want a 1292 but time are tough for me just now and I fear by the time I get things togeather these won't be an option anymore.


I asked around for one with no tubes since the tubes cost so much hoping to get one cheap (and then slowly save for tubes) but no luck. Xanatos won't part with the one that had a big gulp spilled into it even though it needs $3000 worth of tubes and he has 3 others that are new. So, please... reflect on this decision for about the next 5 years.. ok?


=Brian


p.s. "Measure wealth not by the things you have, but by the things you have for which you would not take money." With this in mind maybe you would just want to give away the 1292.

 

[draganm]

I'm surprised at how many here are in the same situation as me, with children and changing priorities. I'm just trying to get an 8500 with clean tubes celing mounted and call the theater done. I'm very close, and I am setting a deadline of this spring to be done. If I was in Warrens shoes however and had a CRT machine that was full of Gremlins, that puppy would hit the road in a heartbeat. Despite all the threads I've read about people having problems with electrohome Marquees, I can say I haven't seen a bad chassis yet. Dead tubes yes, but I haven't had to play musical circuit boards yet, hope like hell it stays this way for many years to come. Warren, I don't think anyone here will make negative comments no matter what direction you choose to go. Good Luck

 

[Riktar]

As an owner of a Barco BG800 and Sony VPH-1031Q I will go the digital route if and when the day comes that I can'r get either of them to work.


I came to this conclusion after watching my brothers LCD projector that he brought home from work as an experiment to weigh the possibility of building a HT room in his house. What I saw was a revelation to my eyes.


I was expecting nothing but Grey for black, screen doors that jumped out and all the other nasties that I read about on this forum. Instead I saw a very watchable picture. Was it as good as my CRT's? No of course not. But it was allot closer than I assumed it would be after reading the posts on this board. There is no question that my CRT's are better than the LCD he used but is it worth the hassle involved for the sake of quality difference? Not in my mind.


I would use an audio analogy as further explanation. My brother is also an audiophile who goes to lengths that I would NEVER consider. The amount of time and money he has put in to his home components just blows my mind. Obviously his setup sounds better than my lowly Pioneer parts. But it takes my brothers explanation to REALLY notice the difference. Maybe I have a tin ear but the difference between my stereo and my brother's components is not as large as he would make it to be.


Tin ear, definitely. Bad eyes? I don't think so. The difference in quality is not enough to justify the inconvenience of CRT maintenance.


I originally bought into the CRT side of projection for purely monetary reasons. Used CRT's were/are much cheaper than a new LCD/DLP projector.


I am VERY happy with what I have and will not be rushing out to replace my PJ's anytime soon. But when the day does finally come I am pretty sure I won't be bringing home another 3-eyed monster. I can say with extreme confidence that my back and my wife will thank me for that.

 

[draganm]

no offense but a BG800 and 1031Q do not represent what CRT FPs are fully capable of, not by a long shot. These are generally starter machines for people who eventually move-up to an 8" EM focus machine as budget allows them to do so. If you saw a Marquee or G70 or BG808S in action the difference between them and that POS LCD would be huge.

 

[Brian Hampton]

Draganm,


No offense but Riktar simply stated he was happy with what he has. I would imagine he knows there are better projectors out there. What's the point of knocking what someone else enjoys? Perhaps you own a higher end projector but still you're a bit insecure about it?


A 1031Q is what I wanted back in my Jr College days because they were using them there and they were still big, big money. I didn't really think I could eventually own one. What I did end up with was a 1271 which is also not the top end of CRT FP's but I love it. I would like to move up as I'm sure anyone would but for DVD the 1271 does an incredable job. I'm sure a 1031 does great too.


-Brian

 

[filecat13]

I've seen a lot of discussion on threads here--even participated in a few--about the viability of the CRT market, its size compared to the LCD/DLP/etc. market, its longevity, blah, blah, blah. However, the fact remains that ANY market only matters to ME if I'm interested in it.


When my kids were young and at home, I had minimal interest in the upgrading of my audio or video systems, because, as others have mentioned, there were other priorities and realities to deal with. As time passes, kids grow, opportunities present themselves, then things change.


Nothing is future proof. Anyone who believes that something is future proof is... (tact prevents me from saying). I use reliability, quality, value, and feature set to help make decisions, but not the futile search for semi-permanence.


My first mainstream computer was a 386 running Windows 3.1. Everyone said get a Windows machine because that was future proof. It's what everybody, including business used. So I got the darn worthless piece of crap. Can you tell how much I liked it? That's the last time I let consumer market or business market preferences drive my decisions.


I've been happy with Macs for 12 years now. (Nobody uses Macs. They're going out of business. They're not real computers. There's no software.) I drive a Hyundai Sonata, perfect in the first 40,000 miles. (Korean cars are junk. The quality is bad. You can't get parts. Even their own dealers don't want to sell them. Only poor or ignorant people drive them. They're going to fail in the American market.) I listen to JBL Performance Series speakers. (JBL is a consumer brand. No audiophile would use them. Their glory days are over. Harman International ruins everything it touches. JBL is a dinosaur on its way to extinction.) And I have a 7" Seleco CRT. (CRTs are dead. CRTs are too big and heavy. CRTs are old tech. Seleco is unsupported and unknown in the US; you'll never get service or parts. CRTs are too hard to set up and maintain. You'll never be happy with 7" tubes.)


Well I could go on (and I have!), but my point is you're happiest when you get what you want, not when you get what someone else wants you to get. I create my own market and search for a product to fill my one person demand. If the product doesn't exist, then I have to change my preferences, don't I? But I don't need anyone telling me that my preferences are wrong or that I'm buying in the wrong market. Neither do any of us.


Buy what makes you happy or what fits your current reality without apology. You (and your family, if you have one) are the only one(s) that has(ve) to live with it. CRT, LCD, DLP, plasma screen, whatever, buy what makes you happiest and be...HAPPY.

 

[Riktar]

Thanks for the plug Brian.



draganm : None taken. And yes I am well aware (from reading) that what I have is closer to the bottom than the top.


Since I don't have the money or time to go out and see most of the CRT offerings I will continue to read about them on this forum. That will give me a basis to judge (barring 1st hand experience of course) what direction to go in for the future.


My point is/was that after all the searching and reading about projectors on this and other sites I was (mildly) surprised to note actual differences between CRT and LCD/DLP projectors. And that was an experience I will remember in the future. Seeing is the ultimate test/measurement for a person to judge with.


I have no doubt that higher end projectors will throw a better picture than mine. As to the measurable difference: If your opinion is "huge" I can respect that. Especially if you have seen them in action. Since I haven't I will have to take the Missouri attitude until then and wait to see if the difference is really "huge".


No offense

 

[draganm]

Quote:

What's the point of knocking what someone else enjoys? Perhaps you own a higher end projector but still you're a bit insecure about it?

Brian you couldn't have misinterpeted my post any more than that. I would never knock any CRT PJ, I think they are all good machines. What i took issue with was Rick saying that, based on what a BG800 + 1031Q could do, the difference between CRT and LCD was not that big. That's incorrect, I just sold an M8500 to guy in Sacramento who had been running a 1271Q. Even with HDL-8 lenses, which he claimed made a big diference on the 1271, the move to the 8500 was a "huge improvment" in his words.

Rik, you should post if anyone in MO can show you a 8" EM machine. I think you'll be surprised. For what they're selling for now, you could probably sell the machines you have now and get one for even money. If your brother is really an audiophile he probably listens to vinly, which is analogue. Once your borther sees what and 8" EM machine can do, and you explain to him that CRTs are also analogue, then the poor guy will have another obsessive hobby to deal with.

 

[MC Maniac]

Warren,


You mentioned there was a 1292 in your area with 500 hours..


How much were they asking for it?

 

[xanatos]

DVMDOC


i know well the aggravation of a high dollar peace of

av gear going down for no reason at all. you put money in to

it and then something else goes wrong

i went through this with a nec xglc

in fact i believed the nec projectors were the biggest peace

of junk ever inflicted on the world

i was wrong instead of being the worst projector

ever made it is one of the best

and congratulations on the new member of your

family soon to arrive

my first son is do to arrive in less than three months

and no doubt my priorities are do to change in four

no viper for me


BRIAN HAMPTON


i know it seems greedy of me

but i did pay over 6,000$$$ for this unit

and put another 2,500$$$$ in to it with parts

and labor after the big gulp incident

what you need to do is get rid of that pesky moral compass

you will be amazed at how your financial situation will improve



XANATOS

 

[HoustonHoyaFan]

draganm

Riktar never said that "the difference between a CRT and a LCD was not that big" what he said was

"Was it as good as my CRT's? No of course not. But it was allot closer than I assumed it would be after reading the posts on this board"


I own a Sony D50 CRT and a Sony HS10 LCD, and agree that the differences are not as pronounced as either side of the religeous wars would have you believe. The CRT is clearly better, particularly on demanding material. On your average romantic comedy, it is not enough of a difference for the average person to put up with the issues involved in owning a CRT. The other day my Wife and I watched Bruce Almighty on the HS10. If that was typical, from a video chalenge standpoint, of the kinds of movies that i would watch, I would be perfectly happy getting rid of the D50!


My neighbor has a G90/NRS? combination. I had the chance to A/B compare my D50 last year when my house was been renovated. Is the G90 better? ABSOLUTELY!!! However, it is not enough of a difference for me to me to put up with the issues involved in owning a G90. $$$$

 

[Riktar]

Quote:

Originally posted by HoustonHoyaFan draganm Riktar never said that "the difference between a CRT and a LCD was not that big" what he said was "Was it as good as my CRT's? No of course not. But it was allot closer than I assumed it would be after reading the posts on this board" I own a Sony D50 CRT and a Sony HS10 LCD, and agree that the differences are not as pronounced as either side of the religeous wars would have you believe. The CRT is clearly better, particularly on demanding material. On your average romantic comedy, it is not enough of a difference for the average person to put up with the issues involved in owning a CRT. The other day my Wife and I watched Bruce Almighty on the HS10. If that was typical, from a video chalenge standpoint, of the kinds of movies that i would watch, I would be perfectly happy getting rid of the D50!

Bingo! Perspective is an individual definition. Make no mistake I am not making a blanket statement that everyone should adhere to. What I am stating is that now that I have ACTUALLY seen the difference I have a whole new perspective on the CRT vs. LCD/DLP. From a standpoint of the models I use.


I would love to find someone in the area who had a high end 8" EM or a 9" machine to look at. Maybe that would sway me the other way. Then again I don't think I could sway the wife. She is counting the days till the "coffee tables" blow their fuses for good now that I told her that the next PJ will possibly be a cute little breadbox.


In fact the funny look in her eyes tells me that I will dust the furniture in the HT room for the immediate future. I can just hear it now:

"Oops,,,, honey, I think I made a boo-boo".

 

[draganm]

Quote:

I own a Sony D50 CRT and a Sony HS10 LCD, and agree that the differences are not as pronounced as either side of the religeous wars would have you believe. The CRT is clearly better, particularly on demanding material. On your average romantic comedy, it is not enough of a difference for the average person to put up with the issues involved in owning a CRT. My neighbor has a G90/NRS? combination. I had the chance to A/B compare my D50 last year when my house was been renovated. Is the G90 better? ABSOLUTELY!!!

So what are you saying, the D50 is a little better than the LCD and the G90 is way better than the D50. Where does that leave LCD, for romatic comedies? I can agree with that, I would not use-up my CRTs to watch romantic comedies. As a matter of fact I wouldn't even traverse the stairs down into the basement to watch romantic comedies, the 27" television is plenty good enought for that. I guess I use my HT in a different way, only a small percentage of new movies are worth the ritual of firing up the HT. I know some people use it on a day-to-day basis, and that's fine, but not using it for a week or 2 makes that great movie like LOTR that much more awe inspiring to watch in the UNRIVALED quality and beauty of CRT, IMO.

 

[Alan Gouger]

Please keep the political comments out of this.