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Ok. What would I be missing with the PA460 instead of the Lavoce or B&C drivers in these designs ? What kind of compromise would I have to make ? I'm more than likely going to be powering the sub/midbass cabs with a NX 3000 DSP if that helps with suggestions.

I checked the prices on the Lavoce and B&C drivers. 😳
Really don't think they're going to be feasible.

Thanks for all the help.
You would be missing a good bit of low end. That PA460 has a fraction of the xmax that the Lavoce and B&C 21 have. I strongly suggest one of the 21s if you don't already have your ULF covered.
 
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Before I start transcribing from attached pictures, are CutList files available? (I'm looking at the 18" shallow version.)
 

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You would be missing a good bit of low end. That PA460 has a fraction of the xmax that the Lavoce and B&C 21 have. I strongly suggest one of the 21s if you don't already have your ULF covered.
I don't have anything covered yet. We're still trying to finish our basement, but I want to start planning ( as much as possible ) the home theater/media room part of it. That way I can hopefully plan for speaker and screen/projector placement along with lighting, electrical wiring, HVAC ducting, wall placement, room layout, etc at the same time.
 

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Discussion Starter #764
Before I start transcribing from attached pictures, are CutList files available? (I'm looking at the 18" shallow version.)
Negative, run the cut list numbers in cut list optimizer. It is free and web based. Each design should have the cut list attached as a jpg.
 

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Before I start transcribing from attached pictures, are CutList files available?
Don't know about a files, but most variants have a cutlist.
 

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Negative, run the cut list numbers in cut list optimizer. It is free and web based. Each design should have the cut list attached as a jpg.
...and my state just locked down. I will revisit this again in two weeks unless "Workers who support the manufacture and distribution of forest products, including, but not limited
to timber, paper, and other wood products" covers lumberyards (and they have enough business to stay open).
 

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A couple of questions...

I’m considering adding 4 GSG devs to the rig. I’m looking to bring significant Midbass to the room. Kick drum kind of 80hz fun. Live audio large venue chest kick kind of stuff. I was going to employ a bunch of ported high efficiency PA460s in MBM flats but I’m looking at the numbers and 4 devs at 80hz is far more effective. It looks like by lowering the original design from the outdoor sub down to 19hz still leaves little to no midbass on the table, is that right? To me, the sub 30hz content is an extra benefit, I won’t be adding 12db to the 20hz.

Second, I run multiple sealed 24s, has anyone been successful in melding the devs with the sealed, sending a HP from say 40sHz and up and sending the low pass LFE from 40hz and below to the 24s? I don’t know that trying to overlap them with MSO would work? Suggestions here. I don’t want to part with the 24s, and adding these will bring my MB to the table for that music content and I’d like to take full advantage of the two types of subs for best LFE for movie content. BTW, my room is dead to freq lower than 10hz, it’s a cement floor and walls on 2 of 4 sides and it’s not resonant down in the single digits.

Thanks!


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A couple of questions...

I’m considering adding 4 GSG devs to the rig. I’m looking to bring significant Midbass to the room. Kick drum kind of 80hz fun. Live audio large venue chest kick kind of stuff. I was going to employ a bunch of ported high efficiency PA460s in MBM flats but I’m looking at the numbers and 4 devs at 80hz is far more effective. It looks like by lowering the original design from the outdoor sub down to 19hz still leaves little to no midbass on the table, is that right? To me, the sub 30hz content is an extra benefit, I won’t be adding 12db to the 20hz.

Second, I run multiple sealed 24s, has anyone been successful in melding the devs with the sealed, sending a HP from say 40sHz and up and sending the low pass LFE from 40hz and below to the 24s? I don’t know that trying to overlap them with MSO would work? Suggestions here. I don’t want to part with the 24s, and adding these will bring my MB to the table for that music content and I’d like to take full advantage of the two types of subs for best LFE for movie content. BTW, my room is dead to freq lower than 10hz, it’s a cement floor and walls on 2 of 4 sides and it’s not resonant down in the single digits.

Thanks!


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The closest setup currently running is @Jk7.2. He is using a pair of 15” mbm dev’s for midbass, and ported hst18’s (now swapped to nsw 21’s)
@tarponater is planning to add a pair of 21” MBM dev’s to complement his sealed 24’s.

The 21” MBM would be a more-suited box to what you want to do, but the gsg full range will work fine if you don’t want to build from scratch.

I’m not sure how many 24’s you’re running, but 4 devs will likely far overpower them on midbass. Nothing wrong with headroom though.

Integration will be interesting if you try to overlap. I ran full-range with a pair of sealed 18’s and a pair of mini dev’s. The cancellation issues were significant. I focused on maximizing the dev output and adjusting the sealed, as the dev’s were far stronger. I ended up with an 8th order HPF at 10hz on the sealed.
No big deal on my weak 18’s, but doing that to 24’s wouldn’t be my choice. You may be able to adjust the dev filters to work, I didn’t try it.

I can promise you will be able to make a two way sub stage work.
I can’t guarantee you can make overlap work, that will be a trial and error process.
Either way, I bet you will live the sound addition of the dev’s.

Chris


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Paging @Jk7.2 @FOHTech wants to know about your room!

Jk7.2 has accomplished this sort of feat.
 

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Discussion Starter #770
Just pondering a thought here. Would there be any negative effects if i did a narrow mini dev and shove it in to the rafters of the garage firing down for a garage setup? I realize that plan might not be Optimally placed for best results but would there be a negative effect? This seems like the best bang for the buck. Add a pair of volt 8's or 10's and a old receiver and a small amp and call it a day.

I do not see anything being too negative. The woofer will be in a vertical alignment, so it will sag slightly as time moves on. Otherwise all the standard room issues would still apply. As a plus you get a lot of added coolness factor for having a sub hidden in the ceiling that is not IB :)
 

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Just pondering a thought here. Would there be any negative effects if i did a narrow mini dev and shove it in to the rafters of the garage firing down for a garage setup? I realize that plan might not be Optimally placed for best results but would there be a negative effect? This seems like the best bang for the buck. Add a pair of volt 8's or 10's and a old receiver and a small amp and call it a day.

I’ll be using my quad jbl dev in similar fashion. Lifting it 8ft to the top shelf will be interesting. Hopefully my mini-tractor will reach most of the way.
Currently still have the garage setup apart for finishing testing the quad. I’ll be running a pair of ht-12’s eventually, 30x50 shop.

Chris


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Paging @Jk7.2 @FOHTech wants to know about your room!

Jk7.2 has accomplished this sort of feat.

Here I am!
Yeah, do it. If the devs are playing a different range then the other subs, it will be possible to integrate. Experimenting will be required with low pass on the big subs, and high pass on the devs like I have mine setup.
 

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As far as I know JK is running ported instead of sealed. Also, I don't believe he is overlapping his Devs with his ported. I've overlapped my Dev and my ported subs, but I had to invert the polarity in order to avoid cancellations.
 
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As far as I know JK is running ported instead of sealed. Also, I don't believe he is overlapping his Devs with his ported. I've overlapped my Dev and my ported subs, but I had to invert the polarity in order to avoid cancellations.

I am running ported. They do overlap a little. My fronts are low passed at 75. And the devs are highpassed at 60. I’ve documented my work with measurements in my duel micro devs thread. Check it out I’d link it if my links ever worked.
 

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I am running ported. They do overlap a little. My fronts are low passed at 75. And the devs are highpassed at 60. I’ve documented my work with measurements in my duel micro devs thread.
From what I gather, integrating the devs and ported is a lot easier than dev and sealed. All I had to do was invert the polarity on the dev and everything played nicely all the way to 80Hz:)
 

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From what I gather, integrating the devs and ported is a lot easier than dev and sealed. All I had to do was invert the polarity on the dev and everything played nicely all the way to 80Hz:)

I am sure that statement is correct. But I’d bet a dollar it would be doable to integrate with sealed.
 

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From what I gather, integrating the devs and ported is a lot easier than dev and sealed. All I had to do was invert the polarity on the dev and everything played nicely all the way to 80Hz:)

Having done both, generally yes. Phase shift at variable port tuning can throw a wrench in it, but sealed is still generally worse.

Running a two-way sub stage makes it way easier, since you only have to integrate in the overlap range. Usually doable with just time alignment.

Chris
 

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I am sure that statement is correct. But I’d bet a dollar it would be doable to integrate with sealed.
Definitely doable.
 

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Having done both, generally yes. Phase shift at variable port tuning can throw a wrench in it, but sealed is still generally worse.

Cris
That's what I was eluding to:) What solution did you end up with integrating the devs and sealed as opposed to the devs and ported?
 

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That's what I was eluding to:) What solution did you end up with integrating the devs and sealed as opposed to the devs and ported?

Mini dev has 20hz port tune.

Sealed:
10hz 8th order BW HPF
120hz 8th order BW LPF
Mini dev:
20hz 2nd order BW HPF

(Current setup)
11hz ported:
11hz 8th order BW HPF
80hz 6th order BW LPF
Mini Dev:
20hz 2nd order BW HPF

16hz ported:
15hz 4th order BW HPF
80hz 4th order BW LPF
Mini Dev:
20hz 2nd order BW HPF

20hz ported:
18hz 2nd order BW HPF
Mini Dev:
20hz 2nd order BW HPF
(Was a touch of cancellation on the top end of this one. I didn’t like the low end result in my room, so never refined further)

You can find rew graphs on all of these in my build threads.

As you can see, the more separation in port tune, the more interesting the integration.

I have not found a successful way to model phase interaction, this was all done with trial and error, lots of changes and measurements.

Next I will be integrating an Alpha dev (should be easy) and a Submax v3
(Could be interesting) into the 11hz version I run now.

Chris


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