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Discussion Starter #1,461
I’ve got some B&C 15TBW100s on the way that I got for really cheap, I was going to build some DRs for them but am seriously considering going bigger and doing the 15” full range dev, for a strictly music system!


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I have not updated a 15" design in a long time. They will work in the current 15" model though.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,462
One sanity check on the BMD Shallow DF. 1000 watts of power going into a SAN214.50.


 

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Discussion Starter #1,464 (Edited)
BMD Shallow DF 21"

The BMD Shallow DF! The form factor is best suited for fitting behind couches, becoming a couch or maybe even a guest bed. The simulation is based on the Lavoce SAN 214.50 running at 1000 watts with a BW 18Hz 3rd order high pass filter. Excursion and Velocity are relatively low, add 3db for 2000 watts, which the enclosure and woofer should easily handle. The tune is calculated at 18.2Hz, but with the straight vent reducing air friction I would expect it to climb closer to 19Hz. More detailed goodies in the attachments.























 

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My Devastator journey began after the pandemic forced us to stay home. I always wanted to build a sub but just didn't have the time or the resources to do so. Forced to stay home, I saw this as an opportunity to do exactly that and finally build my first DEV and integrated it into my home theater which is primarily used for movies (95%). Post build was a nightmare due to my lack of knowledge and not been able to get additional equipment in time to try and resolve issues but thanks to this wonderful community and the support they provide, I must say, I am impressed and I am hooked.
A massive shout out to @redfive who guided me through the ups and downs, showed me the way and answered my questions at every odd hour of the day and night. John, I cannot thank you enough! If you are ever in the NJ area, I would love to meet you and thank you in person. @johnson636, @Jk7.2 @trilkb, you all have been fabulous in your support and I sincerely thank you. If you are ever in my nick of the woods, please do plan on meeting. I will be obliged.

I will post some pictures later and will try to write up a post detailing my challenges so that someone can benefit from them in the future but for now, one observation I can share is that we re-watched Avatar yesterday night and with my HT being in the basement, I could see and feel including many things, bathroom light fixtures and medicine cabinet shake at the first floor level. I have been smiling since than and can affirm that all the frustration, stress, road blocks and bottlenecks I faced were well worth it in the end. I truly am "Devastated" in a good way! On to the next build ...

DEV Details:

DEV Version - V6
Wood used - Baltic Birch
Driver - Eminence NSW6021-6
Amp - Crown 2502 XLS
 

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Glad you got everything worked out 👍
 

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Hi all.

I just finished a pair of Mini dev V4 with Dayton PA460's for a friend, but are struggeling a bit with the EQ bit, as this is not my ballpark at all.

Does anyone have a starting point file for a Inuke dsp? A file with the hi-pass and (i would guess) some shelving to flatten the curve, then i should be able to make the room adjustments later, as they would be more obvious (to me at least).

Thanks!
 

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Hi all.



I just finished a pair of Mini dev V4 with Dayton PA460's for a friend, but are struggeling a bit with the EQ bit, as this is not my ballpark at all.



Does anyone have a starting point file for a Inuke dsp? A file with the hi-pass and (i would guess) some shelving to flatten the curve, then i should be able to make the room adjustments later, as they would be more obvious (to me at least).



Thanks!
The PA460 is something I would not boost an incredible amount. In that box I would start with a 20Hz PEQ filter that has a Q value of .6 and a boost value of 6db. If you are using a Nuke I would set a Butterworth high pass filter at 20Hz with a 12db slope (2nd order). Your power handling will most likely be around 200 to 250 watts.
 

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Though I was very little help if any compared to other people, Im definitely glad you got it all worked out. I tried to get a guy into a 18" build and for some reason he just couldn't get it to work and bailed, you realize how much he missed out on just by giving up on it. Good thing you kept going till it worked right and can see the benefits.

BTW, I bought the man with the iron fists on bluray, that movie has some serious sound/bass. Its kind of messy (could be my room/acoustics) but man, theres some nice quality bass in that movie.
 

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Though I was very little help if any compared to other people, Im definitely glad you got it all worked out. I tried to get a guy into a 18" build and for some reason he just couldn't get it to work and bailed, you realize how much he missed out on just by giving up on it. Good thing you kept going till it worked right and can see the benefits.

BTW, I bought the man with the iron fists on bluray, that movie has some serious sound/bass. Its kind of messy (could be my room/acoustics) but man, theres some nice quality bass in that movie.
Thanks @trilkb. I will try and get that movie but I am delighted with the results so far.
 

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So I'm in a bit of a quandary. I have a quad FiCar Audio IB3 18" array at the front of the room. The first row of seats is a low profile couch. I have 8 Anarchy miniwoofers under it firing upwards (and they actually work quite well as nearfield subs!). The second row is theater style seats and behind them are four Infinity Reference 1262 also as nearfield subs. The HT is in an open loft so there is no pressurisation. The combined subwoofer output and tactile feel is pretty good, but this is AVSForum... pretty good doesn't cut it!

I'm thinking about adding a couple devs to bring excitement and impact to the 60-120Hz range. Depending on the devs I might have them dig as low as 40Hz. The four IB subs will handle everything below the MBMs.

When you look at the pics, you'll see below the screen is a shelf I built that includes three HTM-12s as LCR. To the left of that are the 4 IB subs. Immediately behind the screen is an open area that is over a secondary staircase.

Option 1. Leave everything as is. It works pretty damn well and everyone that comes over is blown away.

Option 2. Add in two 15" Mini Dev MBMs (with the LaVoce driver). I would have to nix the shelf I made. The Devs would go between the L & C and between the C & R. Since those Devs are 36" tall, I'd have to raise the screen approximately 6", but then I could also raise the LCR 6" which is more of an ideal height for the waveguide. If the vent on the minidev is down there may be less floor bounce. If the vent is up it would aim straight at the people watching the movie (maximum impact). The problem is the bottom of the screen will be about 37" off the ground, which is pretty high. This is very doable.

Option 3. I could install two of the slim 18" Devs (the newer model that is 16" deep, 30" wide and 60" tall). The two enclosures would go behind the non-AT screen and be vertically oriented. If the ports on the Dev are up and facing forward, then they would vent over the top of the screen. That would be very easy to instal but the vents would be quite a ways from the LCR and the IB subs which has me concerned about phase alignment. If I have the vents at the bottom of the enclosures and facing forward, then I'd have to raise the screen 7" but the vents would be just above the LCR and just below the screen. That would likely aid integration between the LCR and minidevs and the vents would be aimed directly at anyone watching the movie (likely the greatest impact). The the problem is the screen would need to be raised about 7 jnches, but since the LCR would not be raised, the LCR would be well below the screen which might cause a disconnect when watching movies.

To recap, I could stay as is, I could add a pair of 15" MBM Devs, or I could add a pair of 18" slim Devs. Please keep in mind my goal is the run them Devs from 60Hz - 120Hz to increase midbass impact. Tia.

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Yamaha RXa2060 - HTM12 / Pa460 3way LCR - Volt10s atmos - HT8s rears - (4) Dual JBL Devs - (2) F20s
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@krholmberg, what happened to the dev in the ceiling idea? Let me guess, A LOT OF WORK for I’m not sure it will work?
Here is my thought, keep in mind I’m still the amateur around here.
1. If your IB wall is able to eq out to the 120hz range (although you xo at 80) for LFE then I would just do three MBMs for each of your HTMs and then bring your screen out the depth of the HTMs and MBMs and make it AT. You could do a spandex screen for as little as $100 for a test and if you don’t like it scrap it, you could also make a cabinet for the entire setup to keep the room looking good. I did MBM’s for my HTMs and they came to life (for a next level setup). Also, easy intergration.

2. If your IB wall does not eq out to 120hz then a MBM for your subs would be needed IMHO. Then my vote would be for sure the slim. To me it would be a better fit for the frequencies you would like, although I’m not sure crossing them higher up would be better. Maybe run your IB wall up to say 40hz before cutting it off and then the devs higher?
The ironic part here is that if you place the Devs between the LCR then you will need a new screen, Spandex AT maybe??? Because the Devs are so tall you could easily hang the screen right in the Devs for minimum impact to your room. Later you could make a new built in for your new setup? Honestly, I think this would be a better route because you could change this all up for a small price (including screen) and if you don’t like it you could go back to what you have very easily.

Not to discredit the HTMs or having them on the floor (I did at one point too) but once they come up behind the screen a whole new world opens up both in design and sound.
 

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@Audiophile75 yes too much work! Plus, I wanted to be able to take them with me if I love them or sell them if I don't like them. If I built them in the attic they would be stuck there forever!

I have thought about an AT screen but I have a few reservations. I really need a AL screen since the HT is in a loft. I put up blackout curtains which helped A LOT but it's far from perfect light control. The other thing is if you look at the pic of the HT, there are two vertical columns behind the screen. The opening between them is only about 70" wide, so the LCR would have to be closer together by about 11" on each side to be behind the screen. There would be room for 3 MBMs if I do that. If I wanted to spread them apart further, I could uninstall the IB and move it to the Attic, but that's a lot of work. Doable, but a lot of work. Then the L could go where the IB is, the C behind the AT and the R on the right shelf, but then there wouldn't be enough room for the Devs to go behind the screen and there would definitely be no room for 3 MBMs (2 yes, 3 no) it would have to go below the screen, but then there's only room for small Devs. If I keep the LCR below the screen, then I could do 2 MBMs below the screen, or 3 behind it or two shallow lager Devs behind the screen (AT or not). Lots to think about.

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I have 2 21" Eminence subs and an NX6000 amp and wanting to build 2 devastator subs to put behind my AT screen. I would like the keep the depth at or below 24" which leaves me with either BMD 21" Shallow HCR (60x30x20) or Version 4 HCR (48x30x24). Which one should I build? The key difference I saw was 17 hz vs 19 hz tuning, anything else I'm missing?
 

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Here is the apples to apples comparison of the two cabinets with the NSW. The D21V4 will be able to crossover higher vs the BMD, that could be an important determining factor depending on the capability of the current speaks.


 

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Here is the apples to apples comparison of the two cabinets with the NSW. The D21V4 will be able to crossover higher vs the BMD, that could be an important determining factor depending on the capability of the current speaks.


Awesome plot, just what I needed to make a decision. I like the D21V4 curve....wider range of frequencies. Current speakers are dual 15" in mains but downsizing to single 8" so the extended response of the V4 helps out.

Thanks Red Five!
 

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@Red Five, what's the difference b/w

Devastator v1/original 21" 48"x25.5"x30"
Mini Devastator 21" (18"s still work) 40"x25.5x30"

besides the dimensions? I have 2 version1 and I think I'm in love with them :). Issue is that they are 48" tall and my surround back speakers are at 40" height which means they reflect off of them. When I take them out, room sounds much better and open in the back but with devs in the back, that goes away because surround back speakers are like only a few inches away form them. Building a 40" tall Dev will make it under the speaker but I wouldn't wanna lose what DEV V1 does either hence my question.
 

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@Red Five , what's the difference b/w

Devastator v1/original 21" 48"x25.5"x30"
Mini Devastator 21" (18"s still work) 40"x25.5x30"

besides the dimensions? I have 2 version1 and I think I'm in love with them :). Issue is that they are 48" tall and my surround back speakers are at 40" height which means they reflect off of them. When I take them out, room sounds much better and open in the back but with devs in the back, that goes away because surround back speakers are like only a few inches away form them. Building a 40" tall Dev will make it under the speaker but I wouldn't wanna lose what DEV V1 does either hence my question.

That one is pushing velocity a little more than I like. I have stuff that has not been turned into a plan yet. I spent hours tweaking a rear chamber configuration and I have landed on something that does not take a ton of space and is 18Hz tuned with a low velocity. Form factor is 40x25.5x26 for a 21"(Mini 21 Version 5), knock a couple inches off for an 18" woofer. The rear chamber's primary design target is the new beast sub from B&C, the 18DS100-4. Like all DS the motor is strong and the suspension is very stiff making velocity fun to tackle. Price is very awesome at $435. It will handle 2000 watts in the cabinet.



Anyways this is the 1000 watt simulation with the SAN214.50. Excursion peaks at 13mm, port velocity peaks at 22m/s. Based on the SPL graph it will bring the violent bass like most Devastator designs.




If money is not a concern then you get step up into the NSW and run 2500 watts into it. Displacement is a little under 22mm and velocity sits right around 33m/s. This would more than meet expectations... :)


 

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That one is pushing velocity a little more than I like. I have stuff that has not been turned into a plan yet. I spent hours tweaking a rear chamber configuration and I have landed on something that does not take a ton of space and is 18Hz tuned with a low velocity. Form factor is 40x25.5x26 for a 21"(Mini 21 Version 5), knock a couple inches off for an 18" woofer. The rear chamber's primary design target is the new beast sub from B&C, the 18DS100-4. Like all DS the motor is strong and the suspension is very stiff making velocity fun to tackle. Price is very awesome at $435. It will handle 2000 watts in the cabinet.



Anyways this is the 1000 watt simulation with the SAN214.50. Excursion peaks at 13mm, port velocity peaks at 22m/s. Based on the SPL graph it will bring the violent bass like most Devastator designs.




If money is not a concern then you get step up into the NSW and run 2500 watts into it. Displacement is a little under 22mm and velocity sits right around 33m/s. This would more than meet expectations... :)



That one is pushing velocity a little more than I like. I have stuff that has not been turned into a plan yet. I spent hours tweaking a rear chamber configuration and I have landed on something that does not take a ton of space and is 18Hz tuned with a low velocity. Form factor is 40x25.5x26 for a 21"(Mini 21 Version 5), knock a couple inches off for an 18" woofer. The rear chamber's primary design target is the new beast sub from B&C, the 18DS100-4. Like all DS the motor is strong and the suspension is very stiff making velocity fun to tackle. Price is very awesome at $435. It will handle 2000 watts in the cabinet.



Anyways this is the 1000 watt simulation with the SAN214.50. Excursion peaks at 13mm, port velocity peaks at 22m/s. Based on the SPL graph it will bring the violent bass like most Devastator designs.




If money is not a concern then you get step up into the NSW and run 2500 watts into it. Displacement is a little under 22mm and velocity sits right around 33m/s. This would more than meet expectations... :)



This is really good news with this new dimensions 40x25.5x26 every other dev was to wide at 30”. I said I would never change my front stage but with these new dimensions I am sold. I have 4 SAN214.50 up front and 2 in the rear in 10cf boxes but I am not getting the result I was hoping for. I have a ton of low end bass but it drops off between 30-80hz and I think it because of my room is kind of open concept to the side and open to the stairs.

Jared aka Jk7.2 is confident he can fix it but I am as confident (not saying Jared isn’t talented with REW but just look at the graph), it is to drastic for REW to make it happen.



I am not an expert at all in this area so I will let the pros chime in.
So my question will be will 4 of these devastators and 2 of my ported existing subs get the results I am looking for between the 30-80hz with the room I have.


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This is really good news with this new dimensions 40x25.5x26 every other dev was to wide at 30”. I said I would never change my front stage but with these new dimensions I am sold. I have 4 SAN214.50 up front and 2 in the rear in 10cf boxes but I am not getting the result I was hoping for. I have a ton of low end bass but it drops off between 30-80hz and I think it because of my room is kind of open concept to the side and open to the stairs.

Jared aka Jk7.2 is confident he can fix it but I am as confident (not saying Jared isn’t talented with REW but just look at the graph), it is to drastic for REW to make it happen.



I am not an expert at all in this area so I will let the pros chime in.
So my question will be will 4 of these devastators and 2 of my ported existing subs get the results I am looking for between the 30-80hz with the room I have.


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My advice is please wait until you can have someone, like me!, come over and do some setup and tweaking. You have an unbelievably capable setup. You should not be lacking at any fq. The setup and calibration makes all the difference!
Also, your room being open has a greater effect on lower frequencies then midbass. So you having lots of low end shows me your room isn’t the main cause of missing midbass. The calibration and setup must be the biggest issue.
You built a hell of a speaker setup, but I have learned these things are far from plug and play.
 
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