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My advice is please wait until you can have someone, like me!, come over and do some setup and tweaking. You have an unbelievably capable setup. You should not be lacking at any fq. The setup and calibration makes all the difference!
Also, your room being open has a greater effect on lower frequencies then midbass. So you having lots of low end shows me your room isn’t the main cause of missing midbass. The calibration and setup must be the biggest issue.
You built a hell of a speaker setup, but I have learned these things are far from plug and play.

I will definitely wait but at least I know now there is a dev that could fit in my space if the calibration can’t get there.


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I will definitely wait but at least I know now there is a dev that could fit in my space if the calibration can’t get there.


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That’s good news. As soon as I can hop the boarder, I’m coming.
 

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My advice is please wait until you can have someone, like me!, come over and do some setup and tweaking. You have an unbelievably capable setup. You should not be lacking at any fq. The setup and calibration makes all the difference!
Also, your room being open has a greater effect on lower frequencies then midbass. So you having lots of low end shows me your room isn’t the main cause of missing midbass. The calibration and setup must be the biggest issue.
You built a hell of a speaker setup, but I have learned these things are far from plug and play.
Agreed. Something looks off with that graph. You should have no lack of midbass with 6 21" woofers in your room.
 

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This is really good news with this new dimensions 40x25.5x26 every other dev was to wide at 30”. I said I would never change my front stage but with these new dimensions I am sold. I have 4 SAN214.50 up front and 2 in the rear in 10cf boxes but I am not getting the result I was hoping for. I have a ton of low end bass but it drops off between 30-80hz and I think it because of my room is kind of open concept to the side and open to the stairs.

Jared aka Jk7.2 is confident he can fix it but I am as confident (not saying Jared isn’t talented with REW but just look at the graph), it is to drastic for REW to make it happen.



I am not an expert at all in this area so I will let the pros chime in.
So my question will be will 4 of these devastators and 2 of my ported existing subs get the results I am looking for between the 30-80hz with the room I have.


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What do you have for signal processing? The SANs ported have a good amount of mid bass thump, that is definitely the result of cancellations.

If you want to try integrating them yourself using some nifty software, I would look into MSO - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2103074-optimizing-subwoofers-integration-mains-multi-sub-optimizer.html
 

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This is what I have 7705, 2 FP20 clone amps, a Minidsp 2x4hd that is not hooked up do to lost all output after trying to hook it up and dial my subs in. As I said before I have no clue how to set it up, so I wait patiently for The boarders to open up and Jared to come over to set it up

Edit: thanks Red I will check out that thread and see if I can figure some things out.

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This is what I have 7705, 2 FP20 clone amps, a Minidsp 2x4hd that is not hooked up do to lost all output after trying to hook it up and dial my subs in. As I said before I have no clue how to set it up, so I wait patiently for The boarders to open up and Jared to come over to set it up

Edit: thanks Red I will check out that thread and see if I can figure some things out.

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@Red Five nailed it. That’s cancelations. When I added my rear subs years ago, I didn’t understand why the system sounded louder with them off. Then @mtg90 came out with his guide to sub eq plus mains thread, and I finally got it. I can’t wait to measure and get things groovin.
Turn off the rear subs. And post another graph. Maybe this isn’t the place for it, but that will show us what the fronts are doing, with the rears out of the mix.
 

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Looking for some suggestions.

In my present setup I have a Full Marty with a UM18 and a Devastator v5 with a SAN214.50 (thanks for the design and help Red Five!) with both driven by an NX6000D. I'm looking to add 1-2 subs with a goal to even dispersion as bass feels loaded on the right side presently. I also want more over impact(bass that I feel) - I'm not really looking for more SPL.

My room is roughly 12x19 with a 3' cubby on the right as seen below. Ceiling is less than 8'.


The MLP is the front row middle and right seats. I probably don't listen as loud as most but I do boost the low end a bit. My UM18 handles the back row well (except midbass) so the main focus is the front.

I'm leaning towards a new setup as seen below which requires moving the front wall because of the limited sub positioning in my room. I don't have an AT screen so Devastators are perfect. I'm sure I'll lose a little bit of impact by repositioning my current devastator because it's more nearfield as appears in the pic.

I'm guessing 2 same sized subs is always better than 1 (2 SAN214.5s with an NX6000 would have more impact than an NSW21 with a Crown 2502), right? With my limited knowledge it's hard to tell how much you'd gain by going with an LFE over the original Finalizer(plus I move these things by myself and I'm not a young guy anymore). I'm currently leaning toward 2 devastators up front and in position 2(yellow) adding a mini-18 devastator or a full marty, keeping the full marty in it's current position and driving the new subs with another NX6000D or an NX6000 + mini DSP.

Any advice on subs, amplifier, or placement is appreciated but I would like to limit the budget to around $1500 (but hopefully less).

Any advice on special discounts and such would also be great!


Thanks in advance!
 

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Looking for some suggestions.

In my present setup I have a Full Marty with a UM18 and a Devastator v5 with a SAN214.50 (thanks for the design and help Red Five!) with both driven by an NX6000D. I'm looking to add 1-2 subs with a goal to even dispersion as bass feels loaded on the right side presently. I also want more over impact(bass that I feel) - I'm not really looking for more SPL.

My room is roughly 12x19 with a 3' cubby on the right as seen below. Ceiling is less than 8'.


The MLP is the front row middle and right seats. I probably don't listen as loud as most but I do boost the low end a bit. My UM18 handles the back row well (except midbass) so the main focus is the front.

I'm leaning towards a new setup as seen below which requires moving the front wall because of the limited sub positioning in my room. I don't have an AT screen so Devastators are perfect. I'm sure I'll lose a little bit of impact by repositioning my current devastator because it's more nearfield as appears in the pic.

I'm guessing 2 same sized subs is always better than 1 (2 SAN214.5s with an NX6000 would have more impact than an NSW21 with a Crown 2502), right? With my limited knowledge it's hard to tell how much you'd gain by going with an LFE over the original Finalizer(plus I move these things by myself and I'm not a young guy anymore). I'm currently leaning toward 2 devastators up front and in position 2(yellow) adding a mini-18 devastator or a full marty, keeping the full marty in it's current position and driving the new subs with another NX6000D or an NX6000 + mini DSP.

Any advice on subs, amplifier, or placement is appreciated but I would like to limit the budget to around $1500 (but hopefully less).

Any advice on special discounts and such would also be great!


Thanks in advance!

If you can get a second D21V5 up front that would be optimal, then get a couple Minis in the back. I do have another 18" Mini that will be coming into play. 40x25.5x24 for dimensions. The woofer is $435 right now only at PE, 3 in stock last I checked. Sim is 2000 watts with a 20Hz 2nd order HPF active. There is still excursion left in the tank for this woofer, but velocity is sitting around 33m/s or so. That is a lot of boom in a small package.


I had a 21DS115 with a very similar response to that graph and that baby could pound. Now for amps if you look around you can usually get a deal on B stock or open box XLS2002s XLS2502s, RMS is only 300 watts different, up to you if you really need the last 300 watts. The 2002s are a little over $400 on eBay if you can find open box, but that is all timing and luck. Crutchfield usually has XLS amps that are opened box or have cosmetic blemishes for a bit more. If you are not afraid of more learning curve there are some Crown CTS 2000s currently on eBay. I picked up two of those now after getting the first one. The first one hits much harder than the NU3000DSP, I did not think the M18V1s could get that loud...
 

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This is what I have 7705, 2 FP20 clone amps, a Minidsp 2x4hd that is not hooked up do to lost all output after trying to hook it up and dial my subs in. As I said before I have no clue how to set it up, so I wait patiently for The boarders to open up and Jared to come over to set it up

Edit: thanks Red I will check out that thread and see if I can figure some things out.

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MSO has a big tutorial, but it has files for you to practice on and goes step by step. MSO does export the data so you can directly dump it into your MiniDSP, so you do not have to set all the delays, PEQs and gains manually. It optimizes your delays, PEQ and gains for multiple positions based on the measurement data and parameters you set. Your job is to give it the data it needs and set up parameters that it needs. It will then give you an estimate of what the response will look like with the filters, delays and gains that it is suggesting. My subs are colocated so I have not dug into it much further, but if you have subs that are not colocated around the room it is a very useful tool.
 

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That one is pushing velocity a little more than I like. I have stuff that has not been turned into a plan yet. I spent hours tweaking a rear chamber configuration and I have landed on something that does not take a ton of space and is 18Hz tuned with a low velocity. Form factor is 40x25.5x26 for a 21"(Mini 21 Version 5), knock a couple inches off for an 18" woofer. The rear chamber's primary design target is the new beast sub from B&C, the 18DS100-4. Like all DS the motor is strong and the suspension is very stiff making velocity fun to tackle. Price is very awesome at $435. It will handle 2000 watts in the cabinet.
A bit too technical for me but I think 40x25.5x26 would be the size? This will be awesome. I'm ready to build 2 of them if design is all set as long as these subs will be just like V1. My V1 have LaVoce SAN214.50 21" Neodymium Subwoofer. If I can fit them in this new box then I'm good to go to build 2 more :). I'll move both V1 to the front and these new ones to the back. Will solve all the problems for me :). I also did an FR merge with devs in all four positions and I was getting FR for all my seats within 2-3dB.
 

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If you can get a second D21V5 up front that would be optimal, then get a couple Minis in the back. I do have another 18" Mini that will be coming into play. 40x25.5x24 for dimensions. The woofer is $435 right now only at PE, 3 in stock last I checked. Sim is 2000 watts with a 20Hz 2nd order HPF active. There is still excursion left in the tank for this woofer, but velocity is sitting around 33m/s or so. That is a lot of boom in a small package.


I had a 21DS115 with a very similar response to that graph and that baby could pound. Now for amps if you look around you can usually get a deal on B stock or open box XLS2002s XLS2502s, RMS is only 300 watts different, up to you if you really need the last 300 watts. The 2002s are a little over $400 on eBay if you can find open box, but that is all timing and luck. Crutchfield usually has XLS amps that are opened box or have cosmetic blemishes for a bit more. If you are not afraid of more learning curve there are some Crown CTS 2000s currently on eBay. I picked up two of those now after getting the first one. The first one hits much harder than the NU3000DSP, I did not think the M18V1s could get that loud...

Thanks for the quick response! Another question. If I were to build a 2nd v5 with a SAN214.5 and put them both up front I'm assuming I could bridge them and run them off of a 2502 right? I'm assuimg 2400W @4ohm s on the Crown real world is much closer to the claimed 3000W @ 8ohms Behringer is claiming.

Besides the fan noise with the Behringers, are the Crowns just more reliable with better features?


I'll check out that B&C also. If I'm lucky PE will have a sale on the Lavoce on the 4th.
 

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Thanks for the quick response! Another question. If I were to build a 2nd v5 with a SAN214.5 and put them both up front I'm assuming I could bridge them and run them off of a 2502 right? I'm assuimg 2400W @4ohm s on the Crown real world is much closer to the claimed 3000W @ 8ohms Behringer is claiming.

Besides the fan noise with the Behringers, are the Crowns just more reliable with better features?


I'll check out that B&C also. If I'm lucky PE will have a sale on the Lavoce on the 4th.

The subs up front will most likely work as one sub. The Crown would take bridging much better than a Berry. A Berry can do 2500 watts peak, probably closer to 2400s peak for a very split second. I did not have the greatest luck running a low impedance load with my 3000, they do better with 8 Ohm loads, like one 3000 bridged into a 214.50. The Crown will give you RMS power at 2500 watts, who knows what peak power will be, higher than 2500. That will be a noticeable difference. Your other option is an XLI 3500 one SAN on each channel, they are hard to find a deal on though, but it would be more than 1000 watts RMS per channel. I would suggest an ART cleanbox for getting the line level up for the Crowns XLR input if you can.
 

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A bit too technical for me but I think 40x25.5x26 would be the size? This will be awesome. I'm ready to build 2 of them if design is all set as long as these subs will be just like V1. My V1 have LaVoce SAN214.50 21" Neodymium Subwoofer. If I can fit them in this new box then I'm good to go to build 2 more :). I'll move both V1 to the front and these new ones to the back. Will solve all the problems for me :). I also did an FR merge with devs in all four positions and I was getting FR for all my seats within 2-3dB.

I can easily do screen grabs of my calculator sheet cut list if you want something right now? I still need to work on the JBL Quad DF... It is a top hatch design with rear port routing, it would follow this for panel overlapping and assembly order - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/3094240-devastator-index-38.html#post59557878
The assembly order for rear port routing is under the Mini 18 version 1.



 

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The subs up front will most likely work as one sub. The Crown would take bridging much better than a Berry. A Berry can do 2500 watts peak, probably closer to 2400s peak for a very split second. I did not have the greatest luck running a low impedance load with my 3000, they do better with 8 Ohm loads, like one 3000 bridged into a 214.50. The Crown will give you RMS power at 2500 watts, who knows what peak power will be, higher than 2500. That will be a noticeable difference. Your other option is an XLI 3500 one SAN on each channel, they are hard to find a deal on though, but it would be more than 1000 watts RMS per channel. I would suggest an ART cleanbox for getting the line level up for the Crowns XLR input if you can.

I think I'll see what kind of deal I can get on a 2502 and run both v5s off of it and then go from there. I appreciate all your help. I'll probably start on this in a couple weeks and I'll post some pics after this is finished.
 

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I can easily do screen grabs of my calculator sheet cut list if you want something right now? I still need to work on the JBL Quad DF... It is a top hatch design with rear port routing, it would follow this for panel overlapping and assembly order - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/3094240-devastator-index-38.html#post59557878
The assembly order for rear port routing is under the Mini 18 version 1.



thx. Will this fit 21" driver? The build steps would be similar to that of V1?
 

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thx. Will this fit 21" driver? The build steps would be similar to that of V1?

Yes, it will fit a 21", the Mini Devastator 21" version 4 is 2 inches shallower than this box. Steps would be slightly different than the Devastator V1. My build thread is in my signature, that would be a good one for the rear port routing assembly and Chris also has his Mini 18 V1 build thread posted in the Index.
 

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@Nalleh do you think you can work with this? 1000 watts, 20Hz tuned. I shaved some displacement off of the box. Works very well still as you can see from the simulation :)



 

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