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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
See
http://www.loehneysen.de/#194


Also in the Ultra high end forum similar information has been posted.


Implications as I see them.

Within a year the next generation has arrived hd2+/hd3.

With the higher CR potential higher CR 3-chip designs are possible. Imagine a 3-chipper with 3000:1 with variable light output. You can regulate the lamp and the cat eye lens. This gives you both the dark cave performance and the watching sports in the living room.
 

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3 chip with 3000-1 CR



it will be called Sony SXRD
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by tycoondog2
3 chip with 3000-1 CR



it will be called Sony SXRD
Exactly right except you will have to take the projector apart to see the 3000:1 CR because it is measured at the panel and it won't be for sale within the year.
 

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Quote:
and it won't be for sale within the year
dhp,

What are you basing this statement on? Sony has clearly stated in press releases that they will be releasing product for the US market this year.
 

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I have heard from a guy who measured a Runco 5000Ci, I believe. With the aperture closed.. he says he measured 5000:1 CR. Easy to be inaccurate at those levels of CR.. because the lumen count is down at 500 or so.. and the black level really begins to approach the sensor limit, no matter WHO'S sensor was used. Unless it was a laboratory item, and it wasn't.


Creating High CR on/off is easy. Just make the aperture like a pinhole..and start measuring. Done. Presto. But one thing it does NOT do.. is make the 'washout' of the image any better. ANSI Checkerboard CR is where the action is at, period. And the visible light output will be abysmally low with this pinhole aperture.


And most DLP, if not All DLP, or Digital Projection Period.. have this as a problem..and CRT has noticeably less of a problem in this area, which is exactly why it is perceived as looking excellent. It is not really the high overall CR, with the excellent blacks..it is that even looking 'micro- dynamic' characteristic to the ANSI CR. Very subtle changes in contrast ranging are less washed out on CRT units than on ANY digital unit. The eye uses this information for understanding the depth, and curvature of an object. the more correct this effect, the greater the perception of depth of image and color saturation, 3d, etc. It all stems from the one thing, really. ANSI CR.


There is one digital unit that is pretty decent at it, though. Just the one that I am aware of. Maybe there are more?


The greatest perceived effect of the dimple fix will be the correction of this 'micro-dynamic' washout effect in ANSI CR, and it will increase overall on/off CR... but this will be secondary to the washout correction.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Scott B
dhp,

What are you basing this statement on? Sony has clearly stated in press releases that they will be releasing product for the US market this year.
The first press release noted in this thread said:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200302/03-008E/


"Sony aims to introduce front projectors and rear projection products incorporating this technology to the market within the next fiscal year. "


According to Sony financial data on:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/index.html


Sony's fiscal year ends on March 31 2004.


Based on these two things, the best that can be said is that Sony is AIMING to release SXRD products by March 31, 2004. We will see how good their aim is.

;)
 

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I looked at it and you are probably right. The Sony press release I referenced talked about fiscal year 2003 and "your's" said 2003. I think there is still room for confusion. We won't really know what is happening until Sony announces an production SXRD projector and actually starts delivering them to dealers for sale to folks like you (and maybe me). THEN I will believe in a date.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
First KBK

Explain why crt wins more over dlp in on/off cr,but with ansi contrast the crts are not better than dlps or? Some dlps measure ansi cr >500 , what do crts have? Still you say ansi is what is important. I think we have been at this before. I still dont get unless you state a ansi cr for crts greater than 1000.
 

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Bear in mind that we're living in dangerous financial times, and companies however large, will hesitate to release new products since startup costs are sometimes prohibitively high. It takes a year or two before a company starts making money on a new product. That's why in times like these, 3 years after the bubble burst and still not sure where we're heading, exciting cool stuff are coming far and few in between.


In other words, I would be VERY susprised to see the SXRD released sooner rather than later... My guess: maybe early 2005 at a cost of over $20k (again: new product = high initial costs).


By then, I'd expect we'd see a 1080 DLP product since DLP, however young, is already a flourishing technology with most of the startup costs eaten up already.


THIS IS A RESPONSE FROM THREAD:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...02#post2115002


1080p & 3 chip

OK, rather than replying to each post individually on the 1080P and 3 chip topics, let me try to address all in this post.


1080P - I do not know if you are all aware of our recent introduction into the Digital Cinema market, but if you are not, here's a bit of information. At the recent Showest Event in Las Vegas, TI and DLP Cinema previewed our new DLP Cinema high resolution (1080 x 2048) chip set. To say the least, the audiences were blown away by its performance. This chip has been designed for implementation for very high end applications and very large screens.


As for consumer 1080p, were are very aware of the market desire for products with such resolution, and we and our customers will not disappoint you. In the meantime, our partners DLP based displays featuring 720P, PAL, and 480p solutions continue to excel in the market offering industry leading performance, reliability, and price, in both front projection and rear projection HDTV.


As far as some competitively priced 3 chip DLP systems, I would hope some products make it to market in '04. Competitively priced? Compared to what? A G90? While our costs play a part in our OEMs overall BOM, it is up to our OEMs, and the market they target with such a product to determine product design, system integration, performance parameters, dist/dealer margins, and pricing. Even at a very competitive, but most assuredly low margin MSRP of $10-15K, like some 3 panel LCOS sets, volumes in the front projection Home Theater market are minimal, especially compared to the digital TV market. Even the popular SX21, with 1400 x 1050 panels, only runs at just over 720p in the 16 x 9 mode. Is it that more compelling than the Infocus 7200, or Z10000 at 720p? Are the margins comparable? Is the difference in spec resolution that discernable on the screen to the consumer? A 3 chip system in that price range may not give you any higher resolution, an increase in brightness ( is it needed? ), lower volume and lower margins.


Thus, today, on a price/performance basis, a single chip architecture is the most effective way to offer the consumer a compelling value proposition - outstanding video performance and reliability at competitive price points.


Consider the RPTV market? Why is it current 3 panel LCOS( variations) sets are priced substantially higher as compared to several DLP and LCD based implementations? Why has Philips invested so much time and money planning to introduce a single chip LCOS product? Because, today it is the only way to be cost competitive in generating a competitively priced with DLP and LCD products, and potentially reaping some return in a very large market that is going to continue to grow in the years to come.


I know I did not address all of your concerns, but I tried to be as thorough and honest as I could in my response.


Pete



__________________

Peter J. Broas

Marketing Manager

Home Entertainment

DLP(tm) Products

Texas Instruments Incorporated




My advice: be patient and lower your expectations in order not to be disappointed. Kinda like gWb...;)

Peter Broas TI DLP Marketing Manager 1080p & 3 chip
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I will take an optimistic stance.

Sony sxrd delivered early in 2004 at 15k$.

If we had to wait until 2005 for sxrd, then glv will be ready to smoke its pants off.


I agree on one thing and that is that a low price for an sxrd product under 10k$ is very unlikely, why give away your best technology for "free".


With dmds with dimple fix TI has a very mature technology. The hd2 products are very good. The next iteration of product will have made very good products great. There is always a learning curve to get past. In the next generation they can focus on the little details and functions that really makes the product shine.


I maintain that higher chip on/off cr makes a good starting point for designing a great 3-chip hd2+ product. Yes it will be expensive, it has been posted on the forum that the price will be 20-30k$. Some will find it worth paying those dollars.
 

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Mattias,


"First KBK

Explain why ..."


Let me give you a time-saving tip: Save yiour breath. KBK doesn't discuss or address points made, he's a hit-and-run oraculator.
 

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I have a black box (can be had in red, blue, and silver, too) that will beat all comers, but costs $500K. Units are ready, so who wants one?
 

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GLV will not be available for home use for close to 5 years -- if ever.
 

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Well, All I can say is if.. CRT looks better than digital projection...AND the measurements seem to say otherwise, or are contradictory.. then obviously.. something is missing in the analysis. Look for that thing.
 

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Hey, I've found what is missing from with the analysis, Ken! It's a big black line crossing out the statement: "ANSI Checkerboard CR is where the action is at."
 

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KBK: we are all in suspense as to which digital projector you think is "pretty good at ANSI checkerboard Contrast Ratio". You said there is only ONE.....WHICH ONE?
 

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Well, they will take me away from the podium in handcuffs, but not before I say " I have no comment".
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ChaCha
KBK: we are all in suspense as to which digital projector you think is "pretty good at ANSI checkerboard Contrast Ratio". You said there is only ONE.....WHICH ONE?
He's telling us that he has made one and it is the only one.


--Darin
 
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