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It does suck. I am getting a new unit should be here tomorrow. I am so bummed. I had this calibrated by Chad B and now I’m back to square one.
Keep your chin up. There's at least one owner of the new JVC NX9 that needed 3 units to get a good one. That's an EXPENSIVE unit. Hopefully this one will be the golden sample and last you years.
 

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Sony, which terms their panels SXRD, has had panel degradation issues. JVC, which is DILA, has not.

If you read the forums you will see that JVC panels have issues with the 'gamma shifting over time'. You can call it what you want but both solution's panels change over time which is why both Sony and JVC have now added features to help compensate for this.
 

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Keep your chin up. There's at least one owner of the new JVC NX9 that needed 3 units to get a good one. That's an EXPENSIVE unit. Hopefully this one will be the golden sample and last you years.


That does suck....:(....if it wasn't a "new" one I'd be tempted to live with and try to learn to ignore the dust blob...instead of playing roulette with the refurbs. :rolleyes:


Thanks boys. I hope so too. I am okay to swap the setting from the old unit. It’s panel alignment and convergence that I do not know how to do. He also focused this thing razor sharp.
 

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If you read the forums you will see that JVC panels have issues with the 'gamma shifting over time'. You can call it what you want but both solution's panels change over time which is why both Sony and JVC have now added features to help compensate for this.

They are not the same at all.

The SXRD panel degradation is not correctable. It's a permanent degradation of the panels performance. You can not recover this performance without replacing the entire light engine.

JVC's gamma droop is simply the bulbs, as they age, show a drop in the mid gamma regions. Which can be remedied easily with picture controls or a calibration. Or a new bulb, though no one would do that unless the bulb is almost dead anyway.
 

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It is nice that Epson is willing and able to send out replacement units for dust blobs. ..........


Yep...years ago it must have been a tough company call as the cooling of the light source cannot be sealed...imagine tire companies doing the same with punctured tubes. :rolleyes:
But since dust blobs have been an issue since day 1 with LCD and other projectors I'm surprised the end user hasn't been accommodated with some means of cleaning or gaining access to the light path without a complete disassembly, maybe a gasket sealed panel with dedicated utensils with strict cleaning instructions...now that would open up another can of worms. :D.... :eek:
All in all though the 5050 appears to have been received quite well and for price/performance projects a wonderful picture and probably my future upgrade...the refurbished 5040s are also tempting but one has a good chance of being subjected to dust blobs right from the start.:(
 

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They are not the same at all.

The SXRD panel degradation is not correctable. It's a permanent degradation of the panels performance. You can not recover this performance without replacing the entire light engine.

JVC's gamma droop is simply the bulbs, as they age, show a drop in the mid gamma regions. Which can be remedied easily with picture controls or a calibration. Or a new bulb, though no one would do that unless the bulb is almost dead anyway.

What I have read, here and elsewhere, is that the JVC gamma droop is panel based. As you stated they have a autocal to compensate for this. Sony has also added a sensor to compensate for theirs as well.
 

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What I have read, here and elsewhere, is that the JVC gamma droop is panel based. As you stated they have a autocal to compensate for this. Sony has also added a sensor to compensate for theirs as well.
Read the Sony threads on panel degradation. It's not correctable nor is it the same phenomenon. However I have heard this generation and the prior one Sony has "fixed" the issue, but I haven't kept up with their products to know if that is true or not. I do know that when I was looking at the Sony 4Ks at the same time as the Epson 5040 and JVC e-shift models that the loss of contrast was substantial and the only fix was a total display engine replacement. Which out of warranty was more than the projector was worth.

I may be mistaken on whether the gamma droop is panel or bulb based on the JVC. Honestly it was so easy to correct on my RS46 at 1200 hrs it falls into the nuisance category and nothing more. So I haven't given it much thought. It's a far cry from irreversible panel degradation that costs several thousands to fix that plagued the Sonys. I don't think anyone has enough hours on the 4K JVC units to know whether a correction will be necessary. If it is, meh.

Trying to lump the 2 together is like saying a 15 minute free tuneup on your car is in the same ballpark as replacing the entire drivetrain.
 

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I just found the thread on SXRD panel degradation in the Sony's and felt that it pushed me towards the 5050/6050 until I started reading that dust blobs are becoming an issue for some users. Is it really this difficult to design out known flaws?
 

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Read the Sony threads on panel degradation. It's not correctable nor is it the same phenomenon. However I have heard this generation and the prior one Sony has "fixed" the issue, but I haven't kept up with their products to know if that is true or not. I do know that when I was looking at the Sony 4Ks at the same time as the Epson 5040 and JVC e-shift models that the loss of contrast was substantial and the only fix was a total display engine replacement. Which out of warranty was more than the projector was worth.

I may be mistaken on whether the gamma droop is panel or bulb based on the JVC. Honestly it was so easy to correct on my RS46 at 1200 hrs it falls into the nuisance category and nothing more. So I haven't given it much thought. It's a far cry from irreversible panel degradation that costs several thousands to fix that plagued the Sonys. I don't think anyone has enough hours on the 4K JVC units to know whether a correction will be necessary. If it is, meh.

Trying to lump the 2 together is like saying a 15 minute free tuneup on your car is in the same ballpark as replacing the entire drivetrain.

Sony and JVC both use variations of the same technology, LCOS, and both have panels that change over time, since you don't want to use the word degradation. JVC has acknowledged this and the auto cal will help compensate for it but you cannot for Sony which means you live with the change or switch out the panels. You can read the JVC Auto Calibration thread which has information about the panel degradation, sometimes auto cal helps other times it doesn't. If I am not mistaken Sony now has ways to compensate for panel change in the newest high end units.


Sorry for the thread derailment. I guess the end result is that all of the solutions have some sort of compromise or issue unfortunately.
 

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The 5050UB arrived late today and I was able to switch out the Sony HW50ES with the 5050. Right off the bat the weight may be similar but the Epson is quite a bit larger.


A quick convergence check using the Epson pattern looked pretty good, just a little off horizontally.


I hooked up the new Panasonic 820 and popped in the Aquaman 4k. I only had an hour with the projector so I didn't do any fine tuning but all I can say is WOW. The HDR image that the Epson can throw out is incredible. I wanted more lumens to handle ambient light and the Epson has it in spades. Explosions and lasers on screen are blinding.


The negatives are that the Epson fan is noisier than the Sony in any mode (Eco, Med or High). The other issue is that the image isn't as crisp when there is a lot of movement. I didn't have much time so not sure if it is an issue with the Aquaman media, Epson's motion handling being less capable than Sony's or if it is a limitation of the 4k Eshift.


I will be able to give some more details once I have some more time with the projector but the wife said that she could definitely see the improvement which says a lot.
 

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I just found the thread on SXRD panel degradation in the Sony's and felt that it pushed me towards the 5050/6050 until I started reading that dust blobs are becoming an issue for some users. Is it really this difficult to design out known flaws?
That's quite funny, I had exactly the same. I almost pulled the trigger to buy a new Sony until I saw the panel degradation thread. This had me looking for an alternative and the Epson seemed like a great competitor. But if you compare the flaws, dust bulbs can be prevented. Panel degradation is a much bigger problem. If these were easy flaws to fix they would probably have done it a long time ago. Also, you cannot judge the flaws based on a few forum posts. Maybe only 1% of the total sold projectors have these issues.

But I'm happy I found the tread t.b.h. because now I can buy the 6050UB (TW9400) for a cheap retail price and definitely beats the Sony.

As for preventing dust bulbs, I will use a dust cover (when the projector is not being used), swap the dust filter on a regular basis and maybe using a spare (very quiet air sucking system to suck off the heat and incoming dust).
 

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I am scanning for a good article/thread for calibrating projector with monitor calibration tools. I have a xrite i1Display Pro. Not able to figure out a way to calibrate my 5050 with it. Has anyone done so with x-rite or spyder?
 

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Sony and JVC both use variations of the same technology, LCOS, and both have panels that change over time, since you don't want to use the word degradation. JVC has acknowledged this and the auto cal will help compensate for it but you cannot for Sony which means you live with the change or switch out the panels. You can read the JVC Auto Calibration thread which has information about the panel degradation, sometimes auto cal helps other times it doesn't. If I am not mistaken Sony now has ways to compensate for panel change in the newest high end units.


Sorry for the thread derailment. I guess the end result is that all of the solutions have some sort of compromise or issue unfortunately.
I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but all of us should and likely will consider different brands going down the road. I don't use the word degradation as it implies permanency. The JVC gamma droop is something you can easily correct and will end up with gamma that tracks perfectly. The SXRD issue Sony owners have fought with can't be corrected and requires several thousand dollars to fix. They may use the same technology, but the implementation is different.

There is a dedicated thread on the $3000+ projector forum with 2,198 posts on the Sony SXRD issue. There is no thread I'm aware addressing gamma droop on the JVCs and you will rarely see it mentioned in threads because it is essentially a non-issue. It just needs to be understood that this is not at all the same level of severity.
 

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That's quite funny, I had exactly the same. I almost pulled the trigger to buy a new Sony until I saw the panel degradation thread. This had me looking for an alternative and the Epson seemed like a great competitor. But if you compare the flaws, dust bulbs can be prevented. Panel degradation is a much bigger problem. If these were easy flaws to fix they would probably have done it a long time ago. Also, you cannot judge the flaws based on a few forum posts. Maybe only 1% of the total sold projectors have these issues.

But I'm happy I found the tread t.b.h. because now I can buy the 6050UB (TW9400) for a cheap retail price and definitely beats the Sony.

As for preventing dust bulbs, I will use a dust cover (when the projector is not being used), swap the dust filter on a regular basis and maybe using a spare (very quiet air sucking system to suck off the heat and incoming dust).

Can you explain what you mean here?


I am scanning for a good article/thread for calibrating projector with monitor calibration tools. I have a xrite i1Display Pro. Not able to figure out a way to calibrate my 5050 with it. Has anyone done so with x-rite or spyder?

I have the xrite but haven't used the projector calibration yet. Should be straight forward once you use the software it comes with. It was super easy on my computer monitors.
 

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I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but all of us should and likely will consider different brands going down the road. I don't use the word degradation as it implies permanency. The JVC gamma droop is something you can easily correct and will end up with gamma that tracks perfectly. The SXRD issue Sony owners have fought with can't be corrected and requires several thousand dollars to fix. They may use the same technology, but the implementation is different.

There is a dedicated thread on the $3000+ projector forum with 2,198 posts on the Sony SXRD issue. There is no thread I'm aware addressing gamma droop on the JVCs and you will rarely see it mentioned in threads because it is essentially a non-issue. It just needs to be understood that this is not at all the same level of severity.
Just because people give it a specific name, gamma droop, doesn't change what it is. Please do some searches and you will find info on the JVC panel degradation aka gamma droop. Heck if you want you can read over the JVC Auto Cal thread on here with 806 posts (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1493203-jvc-auto-calibration-9.html).

The end of the story is that both Sony and JVC use the same technology and both have issues but JVC has auto cal which is a work around to help compensate for the issue but it does not fix the actual physical panels.

Yes there are a lot of JVC loyalists that ignore the issues that their projectors have and unfortunately this does a disservice to those that are in the market. The whole reason this line of conversation came up was to bring up the fact that Epson can run into dust blobs due to their LCD implementation but the sealed LCOS implementations also have their own issues, such as panel degradation. If the Epson 5050UB, which just arrived last night, doesn't work out for me I will either go to the Sony 695ES or JVC NX7.
 

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Just because people give it a specific name, gamma droop, doesn't change what it is. Please do some searches and you will find info on the JVC panel degradation aka gamma droop. Heck if you want you can read over the JVC Auto Cal thread on here with 806 posts (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1493203-jvc-auto-calibration-9.html).
Yes it's a correctable nuisance. And GASP the auto cal thread and software are used for much more than dealing with this. So those 806 posts are not all about gamma droop. The thread on SXRD is over 2000 posts specifically about an uncorrectable, very expensive to remedy, design flaw.


The end of the story is that both Sony and JVC use the same technology and both have issues but JVC has auto cal which is a work around to help compensate for the issue but it does not fix the actual physical panels.
End of story there is no defect that can't be easily corrected on brand A, but there is on brand B. So regardless of sharing similar technologies, the issues aren't even in the same league as far as severity.

Yes there are a lot of JVC fan boys that ignore the issues that their projectors have and unfortunately this does a disservice to those that are in the market. The whole reason this line of conversation came up was to bring up the fact that Epson can run into dust blobs due to their LCD implementation but the sealed LCOS implementations also have their own issues, such as panel degradation.
Oh the fan boy card! Yay! No I think most everyone that has owned a JVC past a certain point acknowledges droop exists. I did in a post above. And gosh it was such a chore to spend the 10 minutes to restore perfect gamma tracking. Absolutely the same thing as spending more the than the projector is worth for an uncorrectable loss of picture quality :rolleyes:.

One of our LCD projectors at work had a blue panel go bad and turned the entire picture blue. Sounds like a flaw with EVERY LCD projector. I mean there couldn't possibly be differences in implementation. So you should run from all of them. That's sarcasm BTW. I've recommended the 5050 in more threads since it's release than anything else. Guess that makes me biased huh.
 

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End of story there is no defect that can't be easily corrected on brand A, but there is on brand B. So regardless of sharing similar technologies, the issues aren't even in the same league as far as severity.

I am sorry but a software adjustment cannot repair physical panel degradation, it can only compensate for it to an extent.
 

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I am sorry but a software adjustment cannot repair physical panel degradation, it can only compensate for it to an extent.
And if the gamma tracks 100% perfectly and there is no contrast degradation, color shift or lumens impact this matters why? The extent it is compensated for is 100%.

Is it a major flaw with bulb projectors we need to adjust calibration every few hundred hours too?
 

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discounts

I see the Epson 5050 is currently going for $2700 around the web. Has anyone ever seen better deals than this that are worth holding out for? If you sign up for a Best Buy credit card you can get a 10% reward (only for use at best buy of course) which comes out to $2430, plus tax. Any other places worth considering?
 

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I see the Epson 5050 is currently going for $2700 around the web. Has anyone ever seen better deals than this that are worth holding out for? If you sign up for a Best Buy credit card you can get a 10% reward (only for use at best buy of course) which comes out to $2430, plus tax. Any other places worth considering?
Please refrain from Price discussion of anything other than manufacturer suggested retail price. I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer I just hate to see anybody get banned for discussing price. Generally staying that company or store a has a great deal going on right now and mentioning that they offer a 10% reward should not violate the rules of the Forum. But outright naming prices is not permitted and has been discuss several times.

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