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HDMI 2.1 is a hardware update, it can't be done with a firmware update. It's possible Sony's followup to the Z9D, Z10D may have HDMI 2.1, but it won't launch till Q4 2017, same goes for Xbox Scorpio, possible for HDMI 2.1 Q4 2017, but no guarantee. Only thing that is a promise is next year there will be lots of products announced at CES. HFR is HDMI 2.1 2018 models or later only. New tvs, new a/v receivers, new game systems, new cable boxes, new tv tuner boxes, and new blu-ray players w/ dynamic metadata Technicolor HDR (St 2094-20), all of that stuff is 2018, most of it is HDMI 2.1 only. HDMI 2.0a gets 4K @ 60 input/output only. No gaming at 120fps, nothing above 60fps max on a 2017 tv. NFL games will look incredible in 120hz, bigger upgrade than 4K arguably.

That woulld look incredible, I can't wait for the World Cup in 2018.
 

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That would look incredible, I can't wait for the World Cup in 2018.
Most broadcast shows and sports won't be adding 120hz for a little while, after the full transition when ATSC 1.0 shuts down, but if they were going to make an exception, it would probably be for World Cup. I read WC '18 is going to have a 4K UHD broadcast. Haven't seen any official words on if it will be 60hz or 120hz broadcast, but it should have 4k, HDR, 10-bits, HEVC, even if it's 60hz, it'll still be something different from what we're used to, here in the USA. ATSC 3.0 will make it incredibly easy for people in the US to get to watch it in 4K too. Bring on Superbowl 'LIII' 2019. Actually, bring on Superbowl 'LIV' 2020, because I'll have moved to 4K OLED by then, and I want to LIV baby!
 

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Will the cable and satellite companies have to update their stb's when 1080p HDR arrives? Same with streaming boxes? Will 1080p HDR use the current HDMI 1.4 setups, thus not requiring any upgrading of the provider's hardware?
 

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Will the cable and satellite companies have to update their stb's when 1080p HDR arrives? Same with streaming boxes? Will 1080p HDR use the current HDMI 1.4 setups, thus not requiring any upgrading of the provider's hardware?
Could be, but anything 'HFR ready' will have to be HDMI 2.1
 

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Could be, but anything 'HFR ready' will have to be HDMI 2.1
Yes, but could the cable/satellite companies simply send the 1080p HDR feed at 60 fps instead of 120 fps, thus not having the need for 2.1? Currently, most 4K HDR tv's can handle 1080p at 60 fps with no issues.
 

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Yes, but could the cable/satellite companies simply send the 1080p HDR feed at 60 fps instead of 120 fps, thus not having the need for 2.1? Currently, most 4K HDR tv's can handle 1080p at 60 fps with no issues.
There'll be setups for older tvs too, but you at least need HDMI 2.0a, if you want HDR, or HDMI 2.1, if you want HFR. Still would have to be new hardware in the cable box. The boxes may be all HDMI 2.1 outputs, but those outputs on the cable box can still hook up to an older tv. You only need new hdmi cables/new tv to do 4k @ 120hz. Even a non-HDR 4K and a non-4K 1080p tv will see some benefits.
 

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Thanks again for the 300 posts you've made about not upgrading:rolleyes: we get it by now, trust me.

I don't think i have made 300 post on here in a year dear. I don't see OTA- HD changing for the better anytime soon june.

Many of the chans are only 480i and break up so bad with any fast motion.
 

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There'll be setups for older tvs too, but you at least need HDMI 2.0a, if you want HDR, or HDMI 2.1, if you want HFR. Still would have to be new hardware in the cable box. The boxes may be all HDMI 2.1 outputs, but those outputs on the cable box can still hook up to an older tv. You only need new hdmi cables/new tv to do 4k @ 120hz. Even a non-HDR 4K and a non-4K 1080p tv will see some benefits.
If that's the case with new hardware being needed, I don't see any rush by the cable/satellite companies to get this done. Since the majority of the people in this country get their locals via cable/satellite, and not OTA, most will likely not experience 1080p HDR for years to come. Plus, since it's not mandatory, I don't see many local stations jumping on board with 3.0.
 

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If that's the case with new hardware being needed, I don't see any rush by the cable/satellite companies to get this done. Since the majority of the people in this country get their locals via cable/satellite, and not OTA, most likely not experience 1080p HDR for years to come. Plus, since it's not mandatory, I don't see many local stations jumping on board with 3.0.
That's not how it works. ATSC 3.0 is not just for local channels, it's for cable and satellite channels too. Cable/Satellite companies are in a rush to have this implemented. The end result will be more revenue for them. If your cable provider is a true 'mom and pop' cable company, like say "East Arkansas Cable TV" (real company) then yes, the ATSC 3.0 implementation will be terrible. They may even go under once the transition to ATSC 3.0 is completed. Large entities like FIOS, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Charter, and Cox will have no issues quickly implementing the ATSC 3.0 standards, likely they'll happily gobble up those mom and pop cable companies that can't afford to the transition easily. Likewise, DirecTv and Dish network will rush to implement new ATSC 3.0 standards. Technicolor slide also shows ATSC 3.0 launching in 2018 in USA...

 

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That's not how it works. ATSC 3.0 is not just for local channels, it's for cable and satellite channels too. Cable/Satellite companies are in a rush to have this implemented. The end result will be more revenue for them. If your cable provider is a true 'mom and pop' cable company, like say "East Arkansas Cable TV" (real company) then yes, the ATSC 3.0 implementation will be terrible. They may even go under once the transition to ATSC 3.0 is completed. Large entities like FIOS, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Charter Communications, and Cox Communications will have no issues quickly implementing the ATSC 3.0 standards, likely they'll happily gobble up those mom and pop cable companies that can't afford to the transition easily. Likewise, DirecTv and Dish network will rush to implement new ATSC 3.0 standards. Technicolor slide also shows ATSC 3.0 launching in 2018 in USA...
Thanks for the clarification. The other issue is how many people in the US will even have tv's capable of the new 3.0 standards in 2018, or even on 2020. I would venture to guess less than 10%. Most people don't upgrade to new tv's that often. So why rush towards 3.0 if very few people will know or even care about it. People did not rush out to buy HD TV's, so I can't imagine them rushing out to buy tv's capable of ATSC 3.0. I'm not saying we shouldn't implement 3.0, just not sure it will have much of an impact for years to come. After spending $5K on a 2016 OLED, I'm not going to rush out to buy a new tv. I want the new cable/tv equipment to allow me to watch 1080p 60fps HDR, without any more money out of my pocket. Right now my tv can do 4K HDR 60fps without an issue, so I'm hoping that all of us with 4K HDR tv's will not have to worry that our tv's are outdated with the new standard. Sure we won't be able to get HFR of 120fps, but there should be no problem with cable and satellite companies taking that 1080p 120 fps signal and sending it to us at 1080p 60fps with HDR or at least having the stb do that automatically. 60fps with a 1080p feed would look impressive compared to what we see now.
 

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Thanks for the clarification. The other issue is how many people in the US will even have tv's capable of the new 3.0 standards in 2018, or even on 2020. I would venture to guess less than 10%. Most people don't upgrade to new tv's that often. So why rush towards 3.0 if very few people will know or even care about it. People did not rush out to buy HD TV's, so I can't imagine them rushing out to buy tv's capable of ATSC 3.0. I'm not saying we shouldn't implement 3.0, just not sure it will have much of an impact for years to come. After spending $5K on a 2016 OLED, I'm not going to rush out to buy a new tv. I want the new cable/tv equipment to allow me to watch 1080p 60fps HDR, without any more money out of my pocket. Right now my tv can do 4K HDR 60fps without an issue, so I'm hoping that all of us with 4K HDR tv's will not have to worry that our tv's are outdated with the new standard. Sure we won't be able to get HFR of 120fps, but there should be no problem with cable and satellite companies taking that 1080p 120 fps signal and sending it to us at 1080p 60fps with HDR or at least having the stb do that automatically. 60fps with a 1080p feed would look impressive compared to what we see now.
Yes, everything you're saying is mostly correct. But the thing is, sure most people won't have a tv that can do every capability of ATSC 3.0, but yes, but 99% of people have tvs that can at least do 1080p. For those people, getting true 10-bit 1080p HEVC broadcast will be a big improvement on an 8-bit 1080p tv, as many channels are 720p and some are 1080i all currently use MPEG2 which is awful in 2017. If you have HDR all the better. The thing is, just for people who want HFR, for fast action shows, sports and gaming will need a 2018 or later model as the thread starter correctly mentioned. Anyone with a 2016 OLED should have a great time w/ 1080p/4K HDR HEVC 60hz though.

Some people don't understand why it will be better still. I'm glad you get it. Simply by virtue of switching over to 1080p minimum, 4K maximum resolutions, we're all going to upgrade boxes, and we're all going to notice it. Some folks have a harder time wrapping their heads around it than others do. I called Cox (my local company) to make sure, and they confirmed for me that they will not charge customers anything to upgrade their cable boxes, if they're keeping the same cable plan. You just have to call them and make arrangements to get your older model boxes replaced, once the ATSC3.0 models come out. If someone is too ignorant or not knowledgeable enough they probably will miss out on it for longer then they would have to. Cox will take buses into populated areas and show off ATSC 3.0 tech to random consumers, stuff like that to drum up hype to get more new customers and old 'cable cutters' who they want back. Don't expect them to send a letter to every current customer letting them know any of this. If someone knows about ATSC 3.0 and cares, and has their boxes replaced, then they'll benefit. If someone else is just fine with their current cable box, and doesn't feel like they care enough to get the free upgrade, well to each their own.
 

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the state of the art is changing so rapidly that even if you wait for ATSC 3.0 you will likely run into HDCP 3.xxx issues, or be told that 8k is just around the corner, and you should wait for HDMI 4.xxx and a new universal HDMI connector that comes with a tool to remove pin 19 so you can get ARC to work

its always something :eek:
This is pretty much what I was getting at (though in the context of past upgrades), but you elucidated some nice hypotheticals. ;)
 

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This is pretty much what I was getting at (though in the context of past upgrades), but you elucidated some nice hypotheticals. ;)
Okay dude, nice hypotheticals, except there is no such thing as HDCP 3 (at least in 2017) and really you can replace your cable box or satellite box for free once ATSC 3.0 comes out. Also, it's backwards compatible with every type of TV, even CRT, being that they are phasing out ATSC 1.0 eventually, and all. To enjoy every single feature of ATSC 3.0 you simply need a 2018 tv or later, with hdmi 2.1 and 4k w/ good HDR. Not too complicated for most people, and the new standard is going to last about a decade before we actually upgrade to a 12-bit 8K HDR standard. Yep, it'll be just around the corner when my 6 year-old niece gets her driver's licence. But yes, you and @markrubin may wish to wait for HDCP 3.0 and HDMI 4.0 before you call your cable companies and get a free upgrade to your cable boxes.
 

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That's not MY hypothetical, damn, so why are you pouncing on me? I'm beginning to regret that I ever told you about this subforum.

Anyway, not interested in your diatribe, been doing this for 10 years, so I know that deployments rarely ever go as planned. Not buying a TV in 2018 no matter how much you huff and puff.
 

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That's not MY hypothetical, damn, so why are you pouncing on me? I'm beginning to regret that I ever told you about this subforum.

Anyway, not interested in your diatribe, been doing this for 10 years, so I know that deployments rarely ever go as planned. Not buying a TV in 2018 no matter how much you huff and puff.
I just thought you were always ragging on me, and you thought I was a joke or something. Everyone is making fun of me on this forum, and nobody even cares I'm on the autism spectrum. It's been a bit brutal. So I was a bit snotty. I'm sorry dude.
 

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I just thought you were always ragging on me, and you thought I was a joke or something. Everyone is making fun of me on this forum, and nobody even cares I'm on the autism spectrum. It's been a bit brutal. So I was a bit snotty. I'm sorry dude.
I've not noted anyone making fun....personally i find the stuff you post extremely informative/interesting if a little frustrating as i'am in for buying another Tv this year, can't wait for ever.
 

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Sorry if that's the case and I overreacted, tone doesn't transmit well through text.
I'm hyper passionate about tv technology. ASD and all, it's one of my many autistic obsessions. I started posting on these forums a lot a couple of days ago. A lot of long rambling posts, at first many of them were off topic. Found out that blunt criticism of LG and Samsung in the 2017 model 'coming soon' threads, and making lots of long posts, no matter how warranted it may be, it goes down like a lead balloon. People don't hesitate to lash out at me for my obsessiveness, bitter diatribes, weirdness, my goofy tangents or my awkward bluntness, or when they have their facts wrong but want to argue anyway. Everybody, I apologize, I'm tryin to follow the rules, be helpful, friendly, all that stuff.

What does a guy have to do to ever get Warner Bro to release Top Hat (1935) on Blu-Ray, or randomly "Bye Bye Love" (1995) I'll Do Anything 1994. Sidekicks 1992, Homeward Bound 1993. This is 2017 I wish to see some of those come out now. At least they'll probably get better HDTV tv and itunes/amazon versions, for all of those, I hope... Some of them already out on itunes 720p/1080p so come on, what's the hold up on Blu-Ray? Don't they know people will buy those movies? My favorite film is Rebel Without A Cause, but I also love Rain Man, top ten. Both have pretty great Blu-Ray transfers. Bring on the 4K w/Dolby Vision disks, the DI already exists for Rain Man at least.

ATSC 3.0 ... BAAAM .. the future of broadcast television. ATSC 3.0 ... BAAAM .. the future of broadcast television...ATSC 3.0 ... BAAAM .. the future of broadcast television...

 

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That's not how it works. ATSC 3.0 is not just for local channels, it's for cable and satellite channels too. Cable/Satellite companies are in a rush to have this implemented. The end result will be more revenue for them. If your cable provider is a true 'mom and pop' cable company, like say "East Arkansas Cable TV" (real company) then yes, the ATSC 3.0 implementation will be terrible. They may even go under once the transition to ATSC 3.0 is completed. Large entities like FIOS, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Charter, and Cox will have no issues quickly implementing the ATSC 3.0 standards, likely they'll happily gobble up those mom and pop cable companies that can't afford to the transition easily. Likewise, DirecTv and Dish network will rush to implement new ATSC 3.0 standards. Technicolor slide also shows ATSC 3.0 launching in 2018 in USA...

There is so much mis-information here!

ATSC is an OTA transmission standard. Cable and satellite do not use ATSC. They have other standards. All any cable or satellite company need to do is to install ATSC 3.0 receivers for thos channels broadcasting in ATSC 3.0. Nothing else changes.

Where is this "Rush to implement". I follow all the broadcast industry trade journals, publications the average person does not have access to. There is no rush to ATSC 3.0.
 

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There is so much mis-information here!

ATSC is an OTA transmission standard. Cable and satellite do not use ATSC. They have other standards. All any cable or satellite company need to do is to install ATSC 3.0 receivers for thos channels broadcasting in ATSC 3.0. Nothing else changes.

Where is this "Rush to implement". I follow all the broadcast industry trade journals, publications the average person does not have access to. There is no rush to ATSC 3.0.
Cox recently hosted an ATSC 3.0 event, as did Turner broadcasting. Dish Network has had deep involvement. ATSC 3.0 was designed with the 5G network in mind, and vice versa.

The VP of technical operations for Cox cable wrote an article about it

http://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/0031/why-atsc-30-opportunity/279930

From wiki:

'Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC) standards are a set of standards for digital television transmission over terrestrial, cable, and satellite networks. It is largely a replacement for the analog NTSC standard, and like that standard, used mostly in the United States and Canada.'

Nowhere does it say it's only an OTA local network broadcasting system. It's a broadcasting system. Cable and Satellite represent "broadcasting" too, not just OTA channels. It's IP based. In a couple of years 5G is coming, and I'll be able to use that and atsc 3.0 for in home, and on the go. What you say goes against/contradicts what all information has been put out online from ATSC and companies including Technicolor. Please provide your conflicting evidence. Thanks.
 
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