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Discussion Starter #61 (Edited)
New Drawings

Forgot to post my revised/new plans. The only difference between them is the front L/R speaker placement. One is behind the AT screen and the other is in front of the screen in the corners with a poorly drawn false wall.

Toe-in of 30 or 45 degrees is still TBD, so these diagrams are representative and therefore still rough drafts.

Another change I am contemplating is to move the fridge that on these diagrams would be placed under the 1/2 rack in the lower left corner, to the upper left corner and poke through the wall/shell and into the adjacent hallway. If I go the latter route, I'll build a thick backer box with cement backer board and/or MDF, plus a few sheets of drywall.

This is the room shell:




Here is version #1 , with the L/R speakers behind the AT screen:




And here's the other version w/angled false walls in front of the speakers on either side of the stage:




And finally, here's a blowup of the upper left corner (southeast quadrant):

 

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I like them both! Acoustically I'm not sure which would be better although corner loading the mains would make them reach lower but with subs who cares. It's going to look great!
 

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Discussion Starter #63 (Edited)
Running Summary of Current Build Status

Decided I'm going to insert a post here for tracking current status and checklist of what is completed. Wish I'd thought to put a placeholder for this in beginning of build thread!


Status as of 08.31.2017

Current Work:

  • Screen mounting
  • A/V Rack wiring cleanup and rack installation
  • Touch-up paint as needed
  • Paint knee wall countertop
  • Design/build countertop on top of fridge cubby (acting as shelf inside HT room)
  • Mount PJ

Running Tab of Completed & Pending Work:
  • Demolition: October - December 2015
  • Floating Floor installed: December 2015 - January 2016
  • Putty Electrical Outlets in Adjacent Rooms: January 2016
  • Framing Interior Wall: January 2016 - February 2016
  • Insulation in interior wall: February 2016
  • Fire stops between double stud walls: March 2016
  • Electrical - Run 2x20-amp circuits: March 2016
  • Electrical - High Voltage pre-wire (120v): March 2016
  • Electrical - Relocate Fire/Smoke Alarm: March 2016
  • HVAC Return Ducts for room, projector, A/V rack: April 2016
  • Ceiling Veneer Phase 1 (OSB): April 2016
  • Wall Veneer Phase 1 (OSB): April 2016
  • Extra CAT-5e/6 for VOIP Phone, Network, Doorbell sensor: May 2016
  • Ceiling Veneer Phase 2 (Drywall): May/June 2016
  • Wall Veneer Phase 2 (Drywall): May 2016
  • Drywall: May 2016
  • Soffit Framing: May/June 2016
  • Electrical - Low Voltage pre-wire (5-12v): July 2016
  • A/V Rack Rough-in/Framing Part 1 (core): July 2016
  • Framed concealed storage area: July 2016
  • Soffit wiring (A/C, D/C, Network, Low voltage, Conduit): July 2016
  • Soffit HVAC, smoke detector, PJ wiring, PJ hushbox rough-in: August 2016
  • Other Wiring - Network, Coax, IP-Phone: August 2016
  • A/V Rack Rough-in/Framing Part 2 (cabinet, SMC): November 2016
  • Drywall: November 2016
  • Riser perimeter/frame: November 2016
  • Riser floor: December 2016
  • Entry door rough-in: January 2017
  • Beverage refrigerator rough-in: January 2017
  • Entry step-up and landing: January 2017
  • Entry step lighting: January 2017
  • Entry drywall repair (hallway): February 2017
  • Entry door: February 2017
  • Window plug (right) / will be covered w/column: February 2017
  • Crown moulding (soffit): March 2017
  • Electrical and network outlets in select columns: March 2017
  • Floor outlets for rear seat power: March 2017
  • Column shells complete: April 2017
  • Columns completed (painted and grille insets done): April 2017
  • Beverage refrigerator install: May 2017
  • Front wall corner super chunks: May 2017
  • Knee wall rough-in: May 2017
  • Wire up step lights, front stage lighting: June 2017
  • Screen Mount: June 2017
  • Stage Framing: May-June 2017
  • Conceal Windows (front wall behind speakers): June 2017
  • HVAC grilles painted and installed: July 2017
  • Trim moulding (baseboard and crown, A/V rack trim): July 2017
  • Restored HVAC return duct in soffit to help cool PJ (un-plugged; waiting on grille): July 2017
  • Installed in-line return air duct booster fan: July 2017
  • Installed trim for entry door, around A/V rack opening: July 2017
  • Projector Mount location repositioned from under soffit to main ceiling (rough in): July 2017
  • Carpet Installed: July 2017
  • Furring strips installed for fabric frames, crown moulding, baseboard moulding: August 2017
  • Installed in-line supply air duct booster fan: August 2017
  • Screen constructed: August 2017
  • Complete process of PJ mount relocation to main ceiling
  • Mount screen:
  • Mount projector:
  • Velvet panels on front wall adjacent to screen mount location
  • Install equipment in A/V rack:
  • Configure equipment (HTPC, remotes, relays, etc.):
  • Electrical - Fire Alarm Strobes: TBD*
  • Soffit up-lighting:
  • Window plug (functional window/emergency exit):
  • Future stuff...
*TBD: Not sure if I'm going to do this or not. Decided if I do, they will likely go at the top of the rear columns.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Brief update while I have some spare time to post some pics. I'm nearly done with framing the interior 'wall within a wall' (i.e. double stud wall). I just need to install the DC-04 clips to support the top of the interior walls. Tried to get it done before I had to travel, but ran out of time. I'm looking forward to the DST changeover in early March so I'll have more daylight in the evenings to work on the room. Even with flood lights, I find it's much easier with daylight (at least until I plug the windows... LOL).

I ran into a snag with regards to the east wall (rear wall). I was planning for that to be a staggered stud wall, due to the entry door along that wall. I wanted to minimize the intrusion of the rear wall into the room so that when the columns protrude out, they would not make it awkward to enter the room.

Well, when I was just about to begin framing the staggered stud wall, I realized that is the only wall with braces between the existing wall studs. Some of the braces run diagonally, and I realized they follow the roof line where it abuts with my other attic section. This presents some new options and makes others more difficult.

On the plus side, I could run the 2 20-amp circuits I'm planning to add through that adjoining attic section and into the other attic. Then from there I could run them above the garage and to the circuit breaker panel. Not the most direct route, but would allow me to run the wires directly into the A/V closet that I'm planning for the corner of the room opposite the entry door (facing you when you walk in).

Anyway, with regards to framing, I don't want to remove the braces. They are there for a reason. That means I can't make that wall a staggered stud wall, as it's not possible unless I notched each 2x4 stud where the cross brace from the existing wall is. That seems like a dumb idea to me (notching out the new 2x4's), and probably would not meet code either, so that's off the table.

That leaves me with the only option of making that wall a double stud wall just like the others. So, that's the plan now. All double stud walls. Unfortunately, it means I'll have to consider how the encroachment of a few more inches along the east (rear) wall will impact the entry door opening as it pertains to the rear column placement. I may have to make the rear columns shallower than the others.

To clarify that point a bit, I foresee the entry door left hinged, so that it will open along the rear wall. My reasoning is that any light spillover will be directed at the rear wall and not the screen. The downside is with one rear column close to the entry door, I'm going to have to make sure that the column is not too deep such that it becomes awkward to enter and exit the room.

I've now got to reconsider that plan. If I move the entry door to a right hinge layout, it solves the opening issue relative to the width of the pathway, but I'll need to be sure any lighting in the hallway is not so intense that it washes out the screen if a movie is playing.
 

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Discussion Starter #65
Here's the rear wall bracing that I mentioned above:




Framing around the front windows, before adding cross braces:




Installed a spare set of pull-down blinds to block the north (right side) windows. My wife insisted they appear white from the outside. Voila! Thank goodness for spare parts. :D




Almost done framing... just need to add the crown plate and DC-04 clips:

 

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Discussion Starter #66
Riser Steps: Inside or Outside the Room???

Almost finished with the framing. Just installing the DC-04 clips between the crown plate and existing (structural) ceiling joists or whatever framing members I can attach them to. I'm impressed with these clips. It's amazing how much it stiffens the walls to have them secured like this and nailed into the floating floor (via floor plate).

Now, I find myself in a quandary trying to figure out how to step up to the riser. The issue: outside the room, or step up while inside the room??? Or option 3, use a ramp???

I'm not fond of the ramp concept. Given my side rear entrance, and including a landing at the end of the ramp, I could squeeze out a maximum of about 10" in height (measured from the floating sub-floor). I'd prefer not to do a ramp. It just feels like a waste of space behind the rear seats.

If I step up from outside the theater room, it would allow the space behind the back row to be utilized as standing-room only for parties, etc. and would enhance the acoustic properties/use of the riser to mitigate excess bass. So far, this is the direction I'm leaning toward.

If I go with an interior step-up, the room entrance would be more attractive from its exterior hallway and it keeps most modifications inside the room. However, it wouldn't solve the small height difference between the exterior hallway and the floor inside the room. This is due to the 1-5/8" rise caused by the floating sub-floor in the HT room. That would require a ramp outside the room, in the hallway. I've only got about 3' of length there and would need a minimum of 1 5/8' feet of that 3' to build the ramp. I'd likely use at least 2' of the space, and probably all 3' to create as gentle of a slope as possible. But I'm not crazy about the idea either way.

Simply creating a step outside the entry door - with an interior swinging doorway (into the theater) would give me a landing in front of the step in the hallway and solve the entry-at-riser-height issue. Maybe I'll consider a wider than normal step in the hallway. That may be the best of both worlds, so to speak.

I welcome any constructive comments on this issue.
 

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The staggered wall you want shouldn't be structural or load bearing, right? Just cosmetic? If so, I don't think you would be bound to code but I would ask someone more knowledgeable to make sure. I would think you could notch the studs where they cross the angle braces, or turn those 2x4's flat side out, or space studs more widely, or some combination of those to not have to do a full double stud wall and lose the few inches of room.
 

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Discussion Starter #69
I would step up outside the room.
Thanks. Appreciate the input. After looking over the exterior entrance area again today, I am inclined to concur. Will be a little while 'til I get to that though, so more comments welcomed in the meantime. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #70
The staggered wall you want shouldn't be structural or load bearing, right? Just cosmetic? If so, I don't think you would be bound to code but I would ask someone more knowledgeable to make sure. I would think you could notch the studs where they cross the angle braces, or turn those 2x4's flat side out, or space studs more widely, or some combination of those to not have to do a full double stud wall and lose the few inches of room.
Bigus,

Thanks for your input.

Unfortunately, the existing wall is structural. The new wall is sort of (it will be holding up 2 or 3 sheets of OSB/drywall), the new ceiling, etc. Not really 'load bearing' in its true sense but will not be purely cosmetic.

Now, the diagonal and horizontal bracing might not be, but then again I'm sure the home builder put it there for a reason. The diagonal braces mirror the roof slope on the opposite side of the wall. Part of this wall is shared with my 2nd attic (my home is split into 2 sections with separate roofs and attics).

I decided to suck it up and go with a full double stud wall all the way around. As it turns out, I can make a couple of minor modifications to my plan and not lose much. The biggest change may be switching the side of which my entry door swings. We'll see. Not there yet and much to be done. Unlike many folks, I'm going to wait as long as I can to put the door in place. As it is, makes moving supplies in and out much easier with no door.

I thought of notching the studs, but decided it was not worth the trouble. I'm fairly confident turning the 2x4 studs sideways would not fly (re: code). Besides, I want a solid room. I have done fairly extensive research (for a layman) on the strength and bending properties of wood (e.g. section modulus, moment of inertia, and all that), and I have to say it is amazing how the tensile strength of wood is affected when you turn a piece of lumber 90°. :eek:
 

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I assumed the existing wall was load bearing and couldn't be altered, but also assumed the new half of a double stud wall wouldn't be. To be honest, I'm not sure how or even if code deals with the inner structure of a room within a room. The new wall may support a ceiling load but no real dead or live loads on that ceiling as it is just a floating structure too. Would be worth asking someone specifically to see if and what part of the code applies if the few inches are worth saving to you... and you may well have decided its no real impact to the room in which case double stud it is!

And yeah, huge difference in stiffness for the two axes of a 2x4 and a definite drop turning it flat... probably in the same ballpark as notching it down to that thickness. But turning it flat keeps the cross sectional area intact whereas notching does not, and thus has higher load bearing capacity than the notched stud, even if code doesn't recognize it as such. Code afterall is a set of shorthand rules that simplify things both in building and inspection, but by no means are an exhaustive application of all the engineering principles involved. Which is why, ultimately, having the stamp of a registered PE who runs the calculations for your specific situation and certifies that minimum requirements are satisfied trumps code. Not to say I'd hire a PE for a minor issue like yours, just saying... Code is nice, but neither absolutely guarantees or is the only way to safe and sound construction.
 

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Thanks. Appreciate the input. After looking over the exterior entrance area again today, I am inclined to concur. Will be a little while 'til I get to that though, so more comments welcomed in the meantime. :)


This would be a great entrance
 

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Man if you do staggered stud and pink fluffy all the way around ..the walls at least will be very isolated. I did this in my adjoining walls, and also the same around my bedroom. It's pretty crazy how well they work. Heck I didn't even bother messing with my ceiling and still it has to be basically at reference to hear anything in the rest of the house.
 

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Discussion Starter #74
I assumed the existing wall was load bearing and couldn't be altered, but also assumed the new half of a double stud wall wouldn't be.
Yes, you are correct. I didn't intend to pick apart your post so literally. Sorry!

To be honest, I'm not sure how or even if code deals with the inner structure of a room within a room.
In fact, there IS a reference in the IBC/IRBC to double-stud walls. The exact reference escapes me atm, might be in the 300 or 600 ranges (i.e. section of the code). There's not much about them in the Code, but it is mentioned in a few places (mostly re: nail size and stud spacing). There are also some comments in the Fireblocking area (718.2.1.5; ICC IBC 2012 edition). The latter is an area I suspect many people don't know about. You MUST fireblock the gap between the two stud walls.

And yeah, huge difference in stiffness for the two axes of a 2x4 and a definite drop turning it flat... probably in the same ballpark as notching it down to that thickness.
Indeed. I've done extensive work with Excel to calculate relevant engineering values for various combinations of ceiling joist structures. It can get overwhelming pretty quickly. I've actually been meaning to publish my worksheet on the forum, but I really need to make it more user-friendly first. I was inspired to produce a custom worksheet by the fact that the AWC (American Wood Council) and IBC (code) tables are too generic for many circumstances. Sure, they are still useful as a guide, but nothing beats the ability to customize your figures to actual need. For example, my worksheet allows the user to specify dead load, live load, wood species, wood grade, etc. and the exact span, if the joists will be sistered, etc. I structured it in a way that allows A/B comparisons as well (e.g. what if I want to compare the bending of a single 2x6, sistered 2x6's, or a 4x6 across a given span with a specific load?

But turning it flat keeps the cross sectional area intact whereas notching does not, and thus has higher load bearing capacity than the notched stud, even if code doesn't recognize it as such.
True. Actually, the Code does reference notching specifically. 25% is the max under most if not all conditions.

Code afterall is a set of shorthand rules that simplify things both in building and inspection, but by no means are an exhaustive application of all the engineering principles involved.
Agreed. :D And unfortunately, it's not uncommon to find references for similar situations in various parts of the Code, complicating enforcement and appeals. Still, it is a good baseline. I consider building codes to be the 'minimum' standard when it comes to structural integrity.
 

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Discussion Starter #75


This would be a great entrance
Yeah. LOL. I thought of that briefly... since the entrance is outside a bathroom and bedroom, I'm certain this would not pass the WAF!
 

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Discussion Starter #76
Man if you do staggered stud and pink fluffy all the way around ..the walls at least will be very isolated. I did this in my adjoining walls, and also the same around my bedroom. It's pretty crazy how well they work. Heck I didn't even bother messing with my ceiling and still it has to be basically at reference to hear anything in the rest of the house.
Awesome. I'm glad to hear that because just yesterday I more-or-less decided to do the sacrilegious: that I'll attach the ceiling materials to the structural joists.

Why? Quite frankly, cost is the #1 factor. I've calculated ~100 clips required, based on two sources (Sound Proofing Co. and one of their competitors' website calculators). I know it's not a huge amount of $ if I go with some of the cheaper clips, but it's still $ that could be applied elsewhere to items that I'll enjoy spending it on more (e.g. A/V equipment).

Reason #2 is the fact this theater is on my 2nd floor. I've already discovered that isolating my garage door opener just below the room is going to be an issue for sure. Even with my floating floor, I can feel it. Annoying. Anyhow, there is a big attic above the room, and it's on one end of my home. The room forms a sort of peninsula if you can imagine that, with the garage beneath. I'm betting there will not be as many concerns about flanking through my attic as there would be if I had a basement or 1st floor theater.

There are very few 2nd floor theaters on AVS with such details, so I'll be a guinea pig of sorts and see what happens. I can always opt for a 3rd layer of drywall if warranted (I have some massive joists in the room).

Reason #3 is those massive joists. In order to lower the ceiling and use a true floating joist arrangement as I originally intended, my calculations showed to span my 17', I would have needed at a minimum either sistered 2x6's @ 16", and I'd have to live with a 3/4" deflection across the room width-wise (or 1/2" deflection @ 12" offsets, which is probably what I would have done.

The concern then became losing that extra 5.5" to drop below my massive 14" tall LVL beams that are holding up my roof. So, when you add that 5.5" + 1" gap + 1.5" raised floor I'd lose 8" off the bat from my 9' ceiling height. Then figure a 12" riser (estimated for now, but based on calcs) and a 10" soffit, there's a total 31" drop from 9' to where I would be standing on the riser. I know one can 'fudge' the code by claiming the riser is 'furniture' (if not permanently attached to the walls/floor, it does not reduce floor/ceiling height), but what about human comfort? That means more to me than code when it comes to the ceiling height.

So, this is my logic. I'm gaining ceiling height and sacrificing sound dampening in the ceiling. We shall see how it turns out! Worst case scenario, I'll have to turn down the volume when the kiddos go to bed. Not a big deal since I very rarely watch film or TV that late anyway except on the weekends.
 

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Man mine is 2nd floor too. My bedroom right below it. I have nothing but spray foam sprayed in the floor cavity, the ceiling has nothing on it, not even fluffy. It's silent in my bedroom as long as it stays -20 and quieter. I mean if it's louder Im up there or it's daytime and no one is sleeping. At some point you have to realize it's not always feasible to spend money on something that isn't a big deal anyways. The HT door can be open and I can yell at my teenager and she never hears me, I have to call her..:cool:..kids!. My last theater also had just a staggered stud wall, no other fancy stuff.. same deal had to be cranked to hear anywhere else. The staggered stud alone does great.

With you're setup I'd stagger stud/fluffy fiberglass any shared walls with the living areas and move on and put that money elsewhere!
 

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Discussion Starter #78
Man mine is 2nd floor too.... I can yell at my teenager and she never hears me, I have to call her..:cool:..kids!. My last theater also had just a staggered stud wall, no other fancy stuff.. same deal had to be cranked to hear anywhere else. The staggered stud alone does great.
Wow. I thought it was just my teenager. I can stand in the foyer below his room with his door open and yell. No response. If I text or call him on his cell phone, he answers. Go figure. :rolleyes:

With you're setup I'd stagger stud/fluffy fiberglass any shared walls with the living areas and move on and put that money elsewhere!
Good to know. Thanks for all your comments. I am planning to build a narrow storage cavity along the wall shared w/the adjacent bedroom. That should help with additional isolation there, I suspect.
 

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That is a shear wall and you definitely don't want to mess with it. It provides lateral sway strength.


As for the entry, you could scale that idea down. Maybe a small wood/stone/other material feature wall, and a digital movie poster light box.
And/or, some stand off lettering. (That's what I am doing, and it definitely resonates with your comment about funds possibly being allocated
elsewhere.)


Art Sonneborn's second floor theater floor (over a garage) has some give to it. Very tactile with the infill subs in the side columns, when his Master
and Commander demo had ships trading broadside canon fire.


Do you really still want that refrigerator in the theater? ;) It kind of defeats the purpose of a higher end build, with how it will negatively impact on the
noise floor of the room.
 

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The staggered stud wall is much stronger than standard wall.. it's two walls sharing a 2x6 top and bottom plate.

I have a lot of staggered studs wall in my new house and the one I built in 07, there's no code around here that it must be fire blocked. If so that would defeat the purpose and you'd be forced to just build a normal wall and use sheetrock isolation clips on that wall.

And I agree... fridge in the HT= unwanted noise.
 
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