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Many users of the madVR "PC" software would like some official comment as to direction / intent madVR Labs has in regards to the ongoing development and use of the madVR "PC" software.

Comments please.. :) Ric , Mathias
 

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I've been a user of madvr with mpc-hc long before DTM, it set the standard for high quality video rendering and since then has grown to support DTM after the advent of HDR material. I'd really like to know what's in store for PC users. Would be great if this development would evolve to a full fledge media player utilizing madvr technology (wishlist) but I'd be happy with a stable release somewhere further down the path in it's current form as well!
 

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Let's please not turn this into a wishlist (for now). This thread came over from the improving MadVR for tonemapping thread and should be a follow up on the last posts.

So actually it now waits for the input of @madshi himself or more opinions from users regarding the development of the development ( ;) ) as discussed over in the original thread.

Sorry, but I'm just a bit afraid this might quickly drown.

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A quote from (((atom))) in the madVR thread
Now one could get the impression that madVR changed into a pure test-bed for the commercial product: There are numerous bugs and instabilities that simply "are not priority" anymore, as they used to be. Nowadays one easily gets the feeling that all that counts is testing the new bells and whistles in order to incorporate them into the Envy and once it's done, move on to the next shiny feature whilst not taking care of the overall stability and useability anymore.
First of all I note a rather negative atmosphere that has recently established in the thread. I can only partially understand that. From my point of view I think one should keep in mind that - after a year with no progess at all - finally big steps have been made again starting with b114. Now we are at b130 and I appreciate the recent progress in terms of improved picture quality. Unlike others I am not weeping here at all. I rather think that it would be more appropriate to be actually thankful for that.

On the other hand I also had some troubles with flickering and stability issues. However besides all my testing sessions (which I really love doing) I was never forgetting to spend about 50% of my time in the cinema with actual movie watching. So stability is very important not to say absolutely crucial to me. The same is true for long term stability. I hate the idea that one evening my PC might say: sorry mate, time is up, no movie tonight o_O

So from the very beginning I decided to installl a second and brand new PC for just these new test builds. So I could always go back and use the old one with 112/113. My motivation for these tests: the prospect and chance to squeeze out as much picture quality as possible.

Now to the Envy and its influence on the development of the PC software:
I don't mind at all when that progress is going into the Envy. Of course it has to. Let's not forget: not the PC user are paying the salary of Madshi, these are the buyers of the Envy and the potential investors of the company who make everything possible. To be open: if I was an investor I would never have agreed to offer a software that is totally free of charge. We have now a situation with commercially availble HTPC using madVR software for free. These are nothing but a direct competition to the Envy. So the time limitation is an acceptable compromise IMO.

Personally I would like the option to buy a licence w/o time limitation. The sooner the better. We know that this kind of software will never be perfect and finished. Nevertheless everyone can judge it now and then decide whether or not is worth buying that licence. Ideally working for any build. The hardcore testers will still find room for improvements independant whether it is free or not and Madshi hopefully will find solutions. Like it always has been - just without the whining about time limitations.
 

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I didn't want to add to the tone mapping thread but now that there is a dedicated thread for this where we await an official response, I'll echo what many of you have already said. The htpc is already a complicated mistress by nature. I don't personally think it competes with the envy. They do complement each other, though. As mentioned, work that's done in the beta builds directly translates into improvements in the envy. This seems fair to me... allowing us on the htpc side to continue to see improvements while envy benefits from the time and effort of the community. I'm hoping this arrangement continues.

That being said, I add my voice to those who are concerned about the future of madvr. My thought on the time limit being introduced was that it would in theory force madshi to return to the beta before the time limit expires to bring a new build. That's a motivational factor to keep improving things. But there's a very big risk there, too. If madshi doesn't manage to get a new build out before the time limit expires, are we then stuck? Having to revert to a non time limit build just to maintain our ability to watch movies?

I've always said a commercial license for madvr would be beneficial. The one thing I would caution madshi and ric on is this... the price of a license will determine expectations. Meaning the more that's charged for a license, the more that will be expected in terms of support, new features, etc. If the price is set high and the same level of engagement we have now is maintained, I think that would not be great. If the price is set high and we end up with more alignment with envy features and support I suspect that might be easier to swallow for the htpc crowd. Or somewhere in the middle as a compromise.

Those are my thoughts. Thanks for creating this thread and I look forward to seeing what madshi has to say.

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The one thing I would caution madshi and ric on is this... the price of a license will determine expectations. Meaning the more that's charged for a license, the more that will be expected in terms of support, new features, etc. If the price is set high and the same level of engagement we have now is maintained, I think that would not be great.
That's why an option to buy a licence that works for any already existing or future build is better IMO. You will exactly know what you get because you could already test it first. So you can decide to buy the licence or not and stick with 113. If Madshi announces a version that is new and different to previous testbuilds then everybody will exspect something better with perfect stability ... so he is forced to concentrate on that version. Not a good prospect IMO because this version will absorb then his time that is better spent with newer test builds.:)
 

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These are nothing but a direct competition to the Envy
But they are not, maybe in 50% or even less, especially in the future. You can't use streaming with a PC, let alone the neverending problems with it (win/driver updates). I understand madhsi that finally he managed to get out of it and doesn't have to deal with it on a dialy basis.
 

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90% of support questions could be answered with a simple FAQ/Wiki. Which could if needed even be written by experienced users. It is mostly the same questions asked over and over again by new users. And with a official forum, users could help each other with other issues.

MadVR for PC is a great way to build a strong brandname. The potential userbase is in the order of millions, just by looking at the vast amount of people who use players such as MPC-HC. If just a fraction of that is willing to pay/donate to unlock more advanced options, that's a lot of essentially free money.

Make base functionality free like it is now.
Unlocking advanced options (3DLut/NGU High/advanced DTM) => $20
Unlocking super advanced options (NGU vHigh/custom advanced DTM/SVP like frame interpolation/etc) => $100
DTM testers could be given a serial to unlock experimental features for a limited period of time.
Envy of course keeps having exclusive features that are not available on PC.

When people visit the payment website you have the chance to advertise the even more advanced and easy-to-use Envy products and reach a larger audience with those products.
 

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I dont't really have time to scour the Internet for exclusive DisneyPlus or Netflix movies, but we already see it with shows. You won't find The Mandalorian or The Witcher on bluray.
So because a few TV shows wont get released on disc means HTPC are irrelevant?

That doesn't make any sense to me since there is still tons of content coming out that is on Disc and as long as there is content coming out on Disc that I want to watch, I will want to use madVR to watch it.

If it's 1080p I will want NGU upscaling and if it's HDR I will want DTM. Among other things like 3DLUT.
 

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Let's keep the focus at Madshi here, this thread shouldn't need to be that long if he/they have a clear business model/plan in mind, really.
Just looking at the attention/focus shift of the normal thread, it seems like most of the userbase agrees that there needs to be some sort of announcement.
It's quite obvious to me they need to sit down and discuss this, otherwise an answer would of been given several posts ago, Madshi is not blind, he's on the forums daily.
So, being smart, while waiting, don't drift this topic away from a clear focus, narrow down your discussions around the future plans of madVR, to keep the seat heated, be clever.
 

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It's not your say though whether or not other people want/need madVR.

Even if they stopped releasing discs today there are hundreds or even thousands of existing movies and TV shows on disc that I want to watch or even rewatch some day.

I see no shortage of HTPC content that I want to watch in my life and I want to use madVR to watch it on my projector.
 

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Well just because new content may be limited in the future, it does not mean that there is no need for HTPC.

People have massive libraries with over 1000 movies/shows. Plenty of content to watch through a HTPC.
 

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It's seriously impossible to have a calm discussion here. I'm just saying that the advent of streaming has made madvr less relevant to a lot of people (including myself) who watch content through streaming apps and boxes, and that this trend will continue in the future. And you make it sound like I forbid everyone on earth to keep using madvr for their own need... Seriously, man :oops:

I'm out.
 

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There's also a trend of new TVs that do the photoshop of every frame for you. Read up on new TVs and you will see how the processors analyse frame by frame and generally goof around with the pixels.

I wonder what happened to fidelity? Cant we take what's on the disc or stream as gospel? ... Or is everything so badly made that real time tweaking and darbee type junk is essential ?
 

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It's seriously impossible to have a calm discussion here. I'm just saying that the advent of streaming has made madvr less relevant to a lot of people (including myself) who watch content through streaming apps and boxes, and that this trend will continue in the future. And you make it sound like I forbid everyone on earth to keep using madvr for their own need... Seriously, man :oops:

I'm out.
Lol, if madVR isn't relevant to you anymore then why are you even here in a thread about madVR?

I don't go into other threads that are irrelevant to me and ask all the users there if the product is relevant to them anymore.

And you make it sound like I forbid everyone on earth to keep using madvr for their own need...
That's not what we are saying. But madVR being less relevant to a lot of people has no bearing on the future of it for the users who do and will continue to use it...
 

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Cant we take what's on the disc or stream as gospel?
When the disc says 4000 nits and my projector does 75 nits, how exactly do we take it as gospel?

Or when the disc says 1920x1080 but my projector has 3840x2160 pixels, how do we take that as gospel either? Maybe you would say make 4 pixels be 1 pixel, but you can arguably do much better than this.

Or if the disc says 10-bit color but my display says 8-bit, need to dither.

Or if my display does not conform to correct color gamut or gamma, and does not have very good internal calibration controls need to apply 3DLUT.

There are many, many reasons to manipulate a video between disc and display.
 

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HDR is such a mess.

I should not have replied because I have not used MadVR in years. Last time I use MadVR it worked great so I actually don't know what people are talking about here.

I'm ok with 3DLUT or better upscaling functions. I don't like Darbee or new processors designed to add contrast at random.

One thing steaming has proved is people want less not more quality.
 
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