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Just got mine from Amazon.fr. Skipped though it just to check it out. My first reaction was that the audio was in a slightly higher pitch. But I was really listening for it ... what with all the fuss about this subject.


The only thing in the film that sounds higher is the Simon & Garfunkel music. But really, I'm not sure. I do remember that the songs they recorded for this film were not the commercial releases from their albums (at least most of them weren't).


So I guess I have to check this with the US non-anamorphic SD DVD to see if the pitch is higher.


Picture looked good. Not fabulous ... but for a 40 year old film, it was very nice.


I don't for the life of me understand why there would be a higher pitch on a european release. 24p is 24p, isn't it?
 

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Crap! I really wanted to get this title since MGM delayed the Blu-ray release indefinitely.



But those Simon & Garfunkel songs helped make that movie and the pitch issue would be too distracting.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hconwell /forum/post/0


I don't for the life of me understand why there would be a higher pitch on a european release. 24p is 24p, isn't it?

It's the source (NTSC vs. PAL), not the format (24 Hz).
Quote:
Originally Posted by hconwell /forum/post/0


So I guess I have to check this with the US non-anamorphic SD DVD to see if the pitch is higher.


Picture looked good. Not fabulous ... but for a 40 year old film, it was very nice.

While your at it, could you all so check for PQ, SD DVD vs. HD DVD?

Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hconwell /forum/post/0


The only thing in the film that sounds higher is the Simon & Garfunkel music. But really, I'm not sure. I do remember that the songs they recorded for this film were not the commercial releases from their albums (at least most of them weren't).

Any more info (anyone) on which songs were recorded exclusively for the movie. Are those versions on the soundtrack CD?

Thanks to all!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hconwell /forum/post/0


Just got mine from Amazon.fr. Skipped though it just to check it out. My first reaction was that the audio was in a slightly higher pitch. But I was really listening for it ... what with all the fuss about this subject.


The only thing in the film that sounds higher is the Simon & Garfunkel music. But really, I'm not sure. I do remember that the songs they recorded for this film were not the commercial releases from their albums (at least most of them weren't).


So I guess I have to check this with the US non-anamorphic SD DVD to see if the pitch is higher.


Picture looked good. Not fabulous ... but for a 40 year old film, it was very nice.


I don't for the life of me understand why there would be a higher pitch on a european release. 24p is 24p, isn't it?

Well, I know you said you weren't sure, but I'm thinking you may be biased to thinking it's there... I'll ask Amir to check on it.


I don't have the DVD to compare it to so who knows. I won't mention anything to my wife and see if she mentions anything. We'll probably watch it this week.


Chris
 

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Slotchkins -


You're on the right track. I'm hardly a "blind test" ... because I was so looking for the anomaly.


And now I've got second thoughts. "Scarborough Fair" is one of the few tunes that, I think, was lifted from their album work. And to me, it sounds just fine. Once again, I'm not absolutely sure ... but I think it's not pitched high. The very barebones renditions of "Mrs. Robinson" and "Sounds Of Silence" were specifically recorded for the film and so I can't compare. Although I would guess they'd be in the same key.


I can download "Scarborough Fair" from iTunes (or rummage through some of my old Columbia record albums) and do a compare. I'll do that tonight and post what I find.


Meahwhile, the picture quality is fine. Not great. There's some chromatic aberation in some scenes. I swear, I think it's in the original. Robert Surtees shot much of this thing with (Panavision's?) long zoom lenses. They don't exactly produce steller results when pushed all the way in. But many wide scenes look quite good. The print is very clean. Didn't see any blemishes or dirt at all.


I'll get to this pitch compare in about 3 hours.


Edit: Sorry, I forgot to answer this question. The SD DVD isn't even anamorphic. I rented it years ago. It's awful. No other way to say it. This HD DVD is a good buy for sure.


Another Edit: Big Ed. I'm still confused. It's been a while since I cut film on a Moviola ... but I thought that when an HD DVD was created, its source was neither PAL nor NTSC. I thought they remastered these films from 35mm elements directly to 2K or 4K and from there, they went to 1080p/24. And I thought that was the path globally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hconwell /forum/post/0


Slotchkins -


You're on the right track. I'm hardly a "blind test" ... because I was so looking for the anomaly.


And now I've got second thoughts. "Scarborough Fair" is one of the few tunes that, I think, was lifted from their album work. And to me, it sounds just fine. Once again, I'm not absolutely sure ... but I think it's not pitched high. The very barebones renditions of "Mrs. Robinson" and "Sounds Of Silence" were specifically recorded for the film and so I can't compare. Although I would guess they'd be in the same key.


I can download "Scarborough Fair" from iTunes (or rummage through some of my old Columbia record albums) and do a compare. I'll do that tonight and post what I find.


Meahwhile, the picture quality is fine. Not great. There's some chromatic aberation in some scenes. I swear, I think it's in the original. Robert Surtees shot much of this thing with (Panavision's?) long zoom lenses. They don't exactly produce steller results when pushed all the way in. But many wide scenes look quite good. The print is very clean. Didn't see any blemishes or dirt at all.


I'll get to this pitch compare in about 3 hours.


Edit: Sorry, I forgot to answer this question. The SD DVD isn't even anamorphic. I rented it years ago. It's awful. No other way to say it. This HD DVD is a good buy for sure.


Another Edit: Big Ed. I'm still confused. It's been a while since I cut film on a Moviola ... but I thought that when an HD DVD was created, its source was neither PAL nor NTSC. I thought they remastered these films from 35mm elements directly to 2K or 4K and from there, they went to 1080p/24. And I thought that was the path globally.

Hank-


Thanks for the information! I didn't mean to discredit your post... it's just often when I'm specifically looking for something (especially a flaw) I think I find it when it's not really there.



According to Amir, the film was 24p, but somehow they took the 25p tracks before and made them 24p again without fixing the pitch issue. It was some really strange thing that was hard for Amir to explain, but it was basically due to them not having worked with 24p before. I am (was?) hopefully this problem would be fixed as Amir had someone talk to them about it.


I'm a little more encouraged now with your latest report. I hope the comparison goes well tonight. Regardless, I'm sure I'll enjoy this one - great flick.


Chris
 

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OK, I just decided to do a quick test using another method. I know this isn't the same as playing the SD DVD on a player and comparing side-by-side ... so take it for what it's worth.


I went to iTunes. I found the original album cut of "Scarborough Fair". I listened to it ... then picked up my guitar and found some of the notes. Took the guitar downstairs to the theater. Played the new HD DVD. "Scarborough Fair" is almost (not quite) a half step (on the guitar, that's one fret) higher on the HD DVD. So the pitch is up.


Now that you're all picking yourselves up off the floor laughing about my methodoligy, remember I said take this for what it's worth.


Obviously, the iTunes recording could be off. Obviously, the way the tune was mixed in the orignal film might be different. I remember when I was in radio (my first job out of college), many stations used to play the hits just slightly sped up ... the music directors thought it added energy. Plus it shortened their playing time allowing for more spots. Anything is possible.


But the sample on iTunes of that song is lower in pitch than it is in the French HD DVD.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hconwell /forum/post/0


But the sample on iTunes of that song is lower in pitch than it is in the French HD DVD.

Damn. I guess I'll stick with the Criterion LD until MGM gets around to releasing it on Blu-ray. Assuming they and Fox still support that format.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlotkins /forum/post/0


Hank- I didn't mean to discredit your post.

No problemo. I didn't think you were.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hconwell /forum/post/0


OK, I just decided to do a quick test using another method. I know this isn't the same as playing the SD DVD on a player and comparing side-by-side ... so take it for what it's worth.


I went to iTunes. I found the original album cut of "Scarborough Fair". I listened to it ... then picked up my guitar and found some of the notes. Took the guitar downstairs to the theater. Played the new HD DVD. "Scarborough Fair" is almost (not quite) a half step (on the guitar, that's one fret) higher on the HD DVD. So the pitch is up.


Now that you're all picking yourselves up off the floor laughing about my methodoligy, remember I said take this for what it's worth.

That's what I do, I grab the guitar. It is indeed VERY close to a 1/2 step up.

I have the PAL Buffy sets and if I play along with the musical episode, the songs are all 1/2 step up.

A song on the NTSC is in "C", it's in "d-flat" on the PAL release.

Same thing here.
 

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IIRC, all of the songs for 'The Graduate' were recorded for the movie...only Scarborough Fair was taken off the album. So these will all sound a bit 'different' then the normal album/CD versions, including 'The Graduate' album/CD. I believe a few of these songs were created exclusively for the movie (Mrs. Robinson, April She will Come). Again, I don't know for sure, as I am only 23 and was obviously just a glimmer in my 11 Year old Father at the time this was released.


I am SO looking forward to the import version which shipped today from Xploited. I LOVE this movie and LOVE Simon and Garfunkel so damn much. Both version in Region 1 were BAD transfer, and the Region 2 DVD was just a slight step up from that. I hope we see 'Harold and Maude' shortly on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hconwell /forum/post/0


Big Ed. I'm still confused. It's been a while since I cut film on a Moviola ... but I thought that when an HD DVD was created, its source was neither PAL nor NTSC. I thought they remastered these films from 35mm elements directly to 2K or 4K and from there, they went to 1080p/24. And I thought that was the path globally.

Would that be GREAT!!!

A new HD transfer for each & every HD Disc release.

Unfortunately, we got VHS transfers on LD, LD transfers on SD DVD (heck, even VHS transfers on DVD!
), & SD DVD transfers (from 1080 sources of coarse) on HD Discs.

So, we are now seeing 1080i problem transfers on HD Discs & PAL speedup audio problem on HD Discs; from PAL (I think their on D6, although like you, its tough for me to keep up as well!
) transfers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD /forum/post/0


IIRC, all of the songs for 'The Graduate' were recorded for the movie...only Scarborough Fair was taken off the album. So these will all sound a bit 'different' then the normal album/CD versions, including 'The Graduate' album/CD. I believe a few of these songs were created exclusively for the movie (Mrs. Robinson, April She will Come). Again, I don't know for sure, as I am only 23 and was obviously just a glimmer in my 11 Year old Father at the time this was released.


I am SO looking forward to the import version which shipped today from Xploited. I LOVE this movie and LOVE Simon and Garfunkel so damn much. Both version in Region 1 were BAD transfer, and the Region 2 DVD was just a slight step up from that. I hope we see 'Harold and Maude' shortly on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray.

It is so wonderful to hear folks your age praise these works of the '60's. As you can see from my profile, I'm a performing musician. And I perform "April Comes She Will" at every gig.


You have very good taste in 20th century popular music.


BTW, this HD DVD is very fine. It's almost a half step up ... but it's still a joy.
 

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I just went through the HD disc and compared it to the DVD. The PQ is nice, clear, and full of detail (both playing through the XBox 360). I don't have the ear for the whole pitch thing, and I love the songs.


just one word - plastics.


-Pablo
 
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