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I was interested to see what people thought of this comparison. I have a JVS RS-4810 that I absolutely love. It looks amazing on my 148" 2.35:1 cinemascope screen. I haven't made the jump to a UHD player yet since this can't accept it. I've been wanting to make the jump to 4K and my buddy just bought a Sony 285. I was at his house and it looked nice but I wasn't blown away like I thought I would be. I don't know how he had it adjusted but it was on the same screen material I have but his was a 133" 16:9 screen.

So do people think it's worth it to upgrade from my JVC RS-4810 to a new JVC or Sony? I know the 2018 JVC's are coming out too and adding a Oppo 203 I could finally start to enjoy some of my 4K movies. It seems like most people are calling this a very close comparison but I like the fact that the JVC has memory mode even in the $4000 model.

I'm not a gamer at all and I only watch movies in this theater room. I have a smaller sports room that I would like to rotate my RS-4810 into on a 106" 16:9 screen. What do people think? Are the new 4K projectors worth the upgrade in my situation?
Wait for next CEDIA...
 

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I don't know what the total sales numbers are between JVC and SONY but if I had to guess Sony outsells JVC 10:1 ? This is just a guess of course.

JVC as some of you know struggled very badly financially for years mainly because they have no other products. They don's make TV's any longer or Stereo Equipment or much of anything that we know of here in the USA.

Sony if you remember and you may have followed it years ago was losing 800M per quarter. Not kidding. PS4 was the only thing keeping them alive. Samsung completely gobbled up their TV business years ago and almost put them out of business. The Japanese are smart and fought back and figured out how to rebuild their name and within 2 years dominated the TV market again with some of the best TVs on the market for 2017.

JVC as we heard from pretty close sources a few years ago was totally kept alive by the Japanese Government who uses their products in military applications and needed them to be alive to produce things such as Sonar Arrays for Subs and video products for the Japanese Military.

What does this all mean ? When investing in a 20-35K piece of Video Equipment such as a Projector that you know drops in value each year, make sure you know who you are buying from. When I see Mike G post lots of B stock JVC projectors available , this worries me. Sony doesn't do this and actually its next to impossible to find a Sony B Stock. Why does Mike G have so many B Stock units ?

Mike please feel free to elaborate ? Why does JVC dump these back on the market at such low prices and how can this be good for JVC sales ?

Please don't take this post as negative towards either brand. I respect them both very much for even being in the projector business as its costly and each year you need a new product that outdoes the years prior model. Its a crazy business but for me I want 4K FULL Support and JVC has only 1 model with that at 35K and Sony has many models to choose from.

JVC's Eshift which at some point will come to an end when they can do real 4K for reasonable prices which they haven't been able to pull off. Sony has for years and years. Now that 4K content is alive and growing I dont know why people would consider a non 4K projector but to each is own.

Craig
 

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Honestly, Its means you have limited experience with a product which has been quite heavily honed in the past year based on viewings at a trade show which lets be honest, does not have a track record for even closely setting up display devices properly let alone at a biased Sony hosted event, and you are basing your knowledge on 3rd party observations and out of date information.

How do you know the Gamma was actually properly tracking at these trade shows? Do you really know for sure? Who calibrated them.

From your previous posts you have had a dig at the JVC's tone and color palette vs the Sony whatever that means despite not seeming to recognise that the very purpose of calibration; which both of these brands I might add, are able to be calibrated to perfection, is to match colour and gamma to that of the mastering monitor and adhere to a standard and thus by very definition are indistinguishable from one another.

Based on that, you are pretty quick to jump on peoples real world evaluations both here and the 20k forum I might add as being clearly wrong and impossible.

The 885 does not have the ARC-F lens. That should be all you need to know right there. You have no idea that real quality of the optics on that 885 sample, from what ArrowAV has reported based on the five machines he has, the lens can vary quit a bit, its probably good but it was never going to hold a candle to a machine with a lens probably 3x the size and weight. Never.
JAVS

Your missing the point here. I get to work with both brands regularly. I see the warranty repair and replacement issues with both brands. I get to see the picture on both brands regulatory. I see the value in both brands and who the companies are and how they act as companies from their engineers and communications to their dealer base and how they treat their customers.

Both companies have issues as almost all do but Sony does have a competitive edge in most areas. They make the Recording cameras that shoot most of the 4K and 8K content. They have what the movie industry considers some of the best recording solutions in the industry. For me I like that they build the cameras that shoot the content and then they make the projectors and TV's that reproduce those recordings in a way they feel is best for the consumer.

There is alot the a customer needs to consider when making a purchase decision at these levels. The Lens yes of course a great lens can make a better picture but lets be serious the best lens in the world on a 480P projector with 600 lumens doesn't really matter anymore does it ? There is more to the puzzle. Okay so JVC has a nice lens on the 4500 as we know but does everything else match it ? Some will say yes , what I have seen says no. Granted it was not recent and I will for sure bring a 4500 in again to look at but its the whole PICTURE no pun intended that the consumer needs to look at.

What will their projector be worth next year when they go to sell it and buy the next model ?

You think JVC holds their resale values like sony ?

Just ask the JVC B stock program about that.

This is what scares me about JVC
 

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I don't know what the total sales numbers are between JVC and SONY but if I had to guess Sony outsells JVC 10:1 ? This is just a guess of course.

JVC as some of you know struggled very badly financially for years mainly because they have no other products. They don's make TV's any longer or Stereo Equipment or much of anything that we know of here in the USA.

Sony if you remember and you may have followed it years ago was losing 800M per quarter. Not kidding. PS4 was the only thing keeping them alive. Samsung completely gobbled up their TV business years ago and almost put them out of business. The Japanese are smart and fought back and figured out how to rebuild their name and within 2 years dominated the TV market again with some of the best TVs on the market for 2017.

JVC as we heard from pretty close sources a few years ago was totally kept alive by the Japanese Government who uses their products in military applications and needed them to be alive to produce things such as Sonar Arrays for Subs and video products for the Japanese Military.

What does this all mean ? When investing in a 20-35K piece of Video Equipment such as a Projector that you know drops in value each year, make sure you know who you are buying from. When I see Mike G post lots of B stock JVC projectors available , this worries me. Sony doesn't do this and actually its next to impossible to find a Sony B Stock. Why does Mike G have so many B Stock units ?

Mike please feel free to elaborate ? Why does JVC dump these back on the market at such low prices and how can this be good for JVC sales ?

Please don't take this post as negative towards either brand. I respect them both very much for even being in the projector business as its costly and each year you need a new product that outdoes the years prior model. Its a crazy business but for me I want 4K FULL Support and JVC has only 1 model with that at 35K and Sony has many models to choose from.

JVC's Eshift which at some point will come to an end when they can do real 4K for reasonable prices which they haven't been able to pull off. Sony has for years and years. Now that 4K content is alive and growing I dont know why people would consider a non 4K projector but to each is own.

Craig
Sounds like desperation. You are the third person that has tried this tactic. Here is the answer I gave the other two.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/2937544-sony-vw885es-vw760es-depth-review-comparisons-36.html#post55296028 Also who said anything about low prices? You think you are saving money buying a 4500 B-stock?
There really is no need for it. The 885 is a great projector. I know of nothing under $34,998 MSRP that can compete against it.
 

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I'm curious why the Sony VW385ES didn't have its Dynamic Iris engaged when the JVC RS640 has one and don't recall anyone saying they didn't engage that one?

Did I read this wrong? Sorry if I missed something here. I've been out of the loop, in the ICU 3 times in the last two weeks and almost died. :eek:
 

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JAVS

Your missing the point here. I get to work with both brands regularly. I see the warranty repair and replacement issues with both brands. I get to see the picture on both brands regulatory. I see the value in both brands and who the companies are and how they act as companies from their engineers and communications to their dealer base and how they treat their customers.

Both companies have issues as almost all do but Sony does have a competitive edge in most areas. They make the Recording cameras that shoot most of the 4K and 8K content. They have what the movie industry considers some of the best recording solutions in the industry. For me I like that they build the cameras that shoot the content and then they make the projectors and TV's that reproduce those recordings in a way they feel is best for the consumer.

There is alot the a customer needs to consider when making a purchase decision at these levels. The Lens yes of course a great lens can make a better picture but lets be serious the best lens in the world on a 480P projector with 600 lumens doesn't really matter anymore does it ? There is more to the puzzle. Okay so JVC has a nice lens on the 4500 as we know but does everything else match it ? Some will say yes , what I have seen says no. Granted it was not recent and I will for sure bring a 4500 in again to look at but its the whole PICTURE no pun intended that the consumer needs to look at.

What will their projector be worth next year when they go to sell it and buy the next model ?

You think JVC holds their resale values like sony ?

Just ask the JVC B stock program about that.

This is what scares me about JVC
That sounded like a long way of saying you are extremely brand loyal to Sony. Thanks, not like we didn't know, but now we definitely do.

You don't need to preach it, I don't have it wrong, guess what, I work in the film industry too. I am well aware of Sony's history in the industry and the professional gear used. JVC though do also have some absolutely excellent field monitors, its not like they do not know what they are doing.
 

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I'm curious why the Sony VW385ES didn't have its Dynamic Iris engaged when the JVC RS640 has one and don't recall anyone saying they didn't engage that one?

Did I read this wrong? Sorry if I missed something here. I've been out of the loop, in the ICU 3 times in the last two weeks and almost died. :eek:
Wow. I'm sorry to hear about your health troubles and I hope you overcome absolutely and completely. I do however have a question. Do you have plans to get an 885 and will you work your HDR awesomeness on some settings like you did for the 675?
 

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I love it. Someone goes to great lengths to setup an A/B comparison. Folks attend, watch it with their own eyes, give seemingly unbiased feedback and then folks who weren’t even there tell the observers they are wrong and why.

To those who went and gave your feedback- thanks. It’s so hard to get a good demo of one projector, to have so many side by side including PJs that cost more than any car I’ve ever bought is a treat. Most of us appreciate your thoughts and observations.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I love it. Someone goes to great lengths to setup an A/B comparison. Folks attend, watch it with their own eyes, give seemingly unbiased feedback and then folks who weren’t even there tell the observers they are wrong and why.

To those who went and gave your feedback- thanks. It’s so hard to get a good demo of one projector, to have so many side by side including PJs that cost more than any car I’ve ever bought is a treat. Most of us appreciate your thoughts and observations.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LOLz so true... I was on the other thread started by ARROW, and based on the photos posted, I gave my opinion that the Z1 looked a lot better, better contrast, etc, suddenly everyone jumped on me... They go thru length pointing out numbers this numbers that... .all of which I am not interested in if the actual photos shows one clearly better than the other... Now, I realize that looking at photos is highly deceptive, but if I am seeing two sets of photos, both taken by the same guy with the same equipment in the same room, on the same computer screen, then at the very least I can do a 'relative comparison'...
 

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I love it. Someone goes to great lengths to setup an A/B comparison. Folks attend, watch it with their own eyes, give seemingly unbiased feedback and then folks who weren’t even there tell the observers they are wrong and why.
You are absolutely 100% correct i am afraid, that is why more and more this forum is becoming a complete and utter waste of time!!! :(
 

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I love it. Someone goes to great lengths to setup an A/B comparison. Folks attend, watch it with their own eyes, give seemingly unbiased feedback and then folks who weren’t even there tell the observers they are wrong and why.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had the very same reaction when I saw some of the posts written by folks who were not present at the shootout. I suppose it is human nature to want results to turn out according to our own biases. But I very much appreciate the effort and planning that went into this event and I respect the opinions and conclusions of the people who attended the event and rated the projectors.

Cal68
 

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Sounds like something is very wrong in this setup TOE.

The 4500 in every demo we have been to including CEDIA was washed out and relaxed to the point that its not fun to watch. I have already witnessed people removing 4500's from their homes to go back to Sony's. The Sony 885 when we saw it at the Giants Stadium Setup a few months ago was crisp and vibrant and exciting. Alive and Full of colors and Motion Resolving which JVC dreams about.

Not sure what you guys are watching but if you think that the JVC holds a candle to the 885 something is terribly wrong with your setup.

Maybe its the perf screen or something but your telling me that Sony 885 loses to the 4500 and also to the 1080P JVC's as well ? I dont think so.

Craig
As Kaotikr1 mentioned, we even tried to refocus the 885 and it simply didn't help. I never made any comparison with the 885 to the 385/640 either because we didn't actually do that comparison while I was there. I don't know how the 885 would have compared to the lower models, but from what I saw it would have been very similar for sharpness Im guessing. From what I saw, the lens holds back the 885. Any way you cut it though the 4500 had a clear (pun intended :)) advantage even from ~20' away in the back row.
 

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Not being there I agree it is not fair to make a judgement not based on my own observation. There are so many factors that will determine how a unit will look and it often depends on wall coverings, the darkness of the room and other factors making things very subjective. It also depends on the settings as we all know. I only wish that they tried some of the newly post settings and tweaks for both the Sony's and JVC's from the German group. It seems that these settings really have a big impact on HDR viewing especially with the Sony units.
See below.

"Since there are many people interested in the Custom HDR Foren Edition, we now provide the package as a download."

https://www.magentacloud.de/lnk/tqPPtDkS

In the bottom line of the mask you can switch from German to English language.
Please click on the arrow under the word "Herunterladen/ Download" in the mask.

When saving the gamma curves with the ImageDirector, the projector must be connected to an active image source, such as a Blu-ray player in the menu, at the same time. Otherwise you can not select gamma 7-10."


dditional SDR Gamma Curves for Sony Projectors
Hello @All ,
the selection of SDR gamma curves on the Sony projectors is very modest just around the Gamma 2.2. In addition, sometimes the Sonys have to fight with a light Gammadrift.
Since not everyone wants to do manual gamma curves with Projector Calibration Pro or the ImageDirector, I'll just make some curves available, which might help in some cases.
The "Custom SDR Forums Edition" includes 6 new gamma presets and complements the standard gamma curves (1.8 / 2.0 / 2.1 / 2.2 / 2.4 / 2.6) of Sony projectors to case by case to choose a better fitting gamma curve. Especially in connection with a slight gamma drift, it may be useful to use a modified gamma curve. In this case, it makes sense to measure the grayscale before using a correction curve.
But even without Gammadrift it may be that, for example, gamma 2.30 likes better than 2.20 or 2.40.

The package contains the following gamma curves, each in the file format for the Sony ImageDirector:
SDR Gamma 2.25
SDR Gamma 2.30
SDR Gamma 2.35
SDR Gamma 2.45
SDR Gamma 2.50
SDR Gamma 2.55
The curves were calculated with an application by me to create gamma curves in 10-bit resolution.

Here is the link to the package and instructions:

https://www.magentacloud.de/lnk/wNvPN4qZ

In the bottom line of the mask you can switch from German to English language.
Please click on the arrow under the word "Herunterladen/ Download" in the mask.

Maybe one or the other can use something like that."
 

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I'm curious why the Sony VW385ES didn't have its Dynamic Iris engaged when the JVC RS640 has one and don't recall anyone saying they didn't engage that one?

Did I read this wrong? Sorry if I missed something here. I've been out of the loop, in the ICU 3 times in the last two weeks and almost died. :eek:
Sorry to hear about your health. Glad you are still with us. :) To answer your question. The 385 was doing double duty at this event. It was used as a 285, by turning the dynamic iris off and a 385 when the dynamic iris was on. So when you read about it having the iris off, that was the 285 that was being compared. When on, it was the 385 being compared.
 

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The pissing contests are nothing new here, when Alan owned and ran the forum there was more respect. But that’s because he didn’t allow these threads to carry on like they they do now, the mods shouldn’t have to babysit for adults but they also need to keep these threads in check! A lot of these thread derailments are sales and brand loyalty related.

When you mix a forum with sales and consumers your bound to have issues like this...

Nobody wants to read through 30 pages of arguing back and forth with only 2 pages of usable comments!
Hopefully those folks can restrain themselves from having to lash out so we can here from the people at the shootout...
 

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I'm really surprised to hear most people preferred the JVC. Now I'm beginning to question if I had the Sony and JVC mixed up at the event. I sure hope not =)
 

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Thank you for all the comments all who attended and the host John. New here, but curious! Did the Epson ever show up and partricipate in the event?

Thoughts if so, I understand it was Sony vs JVC.

Great forum guys learning much!!
 

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JVC must have had a miracle software update from what I saw when I sat with Ash Sharma at Cedia and we walked out of the room disgusted with the images.

I know more than one person who has had the 4500 and took it down and went back to sony. What does this mean ? Not sure but this was all late last year or early 2017. If JVC has had enhancements to get the 4500 up to a level that we didnt get to see than I cant argue here.

Have there been huge video improvements in the 4500 over the last year ? I haven't been following it honestly as I was so upset with what I saw out of the gate when Bill showed it at Cedia.

I guess all things considered the 4500 MSRP is what 40% Higher MSRP than the Sony 885 so I hope it should be a little better.

For me I would have to see a current 4500 during Sports like a good Sunday football game fed from Directv compared to an 885 to be convinced but maybe the 4500 for specific movies does some things the sony doesn't but does JVC's motion and overall picture for live sports compare ?

Craig
Ironically, we did watch a few minutes of the Bronco game on the 4500 yesterday and it looked unreal! In fact, I was raving to my GF and her two boys about it when I got home yesterday as they're huge Bronco/football fans.
 

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The pissing contests are nothing new here, when Alan owned and ran the forum there was more respect. But that’s because he didn’t allow these threads to carry on like they they do now, the mods shouldn’t have to babysit for adults but they also need to keep these threads in check! A lot of these thread derailments are sales and brand loyalty related.

When you mix a forum with sales and consumers your bound to have issues like this...

Nobody wants to read through 30 pages of arguing back and forth with only 2 pages of usable comments!
Hopefully those folks can restrain themselves from having to lash out so we can here from the people at the shootout...
LOL, I would like to agree with you, but some of those CRT/digital and DLP/LCD threads became epic.:)

But yes you are correct. People that weren't there continuously saying something must be wrong is kind of an affront to John and Greg. It isn't like Greg doesn't know his stuff. Greg has been around a long time and for those that don't know teaches the THX calibration courses.
http://lionav.com/new/gregg-loewen/

Having said that, was there possibly an issue with the set up or the Sony? Possibly. There could also be an issue with other peoples set up and comparisons. As always a larger sample size gives better results and each individual is just one data point.
 

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I'm really surprised to hear most people preferred the JVC. Now I'm beginning to question if I had the Sony and JVC mixed up at the event. I sure hope not =)
Some folks are just much more sensitive to properly done motion. You seem to be in that camp and the sony has a clear advantage over JVC with that in mind. You have to choose your battles. Contrast/black floor lovers have always needed to venture towards the JVC camp, with Motion/Native folks heading more towards Sony. Decide which one is more important and don't question it :D This likely wont be changing in the near future anyways. I for one appreciate that you felt the Sony "285" was clearly better, and it takes courage to be the one that is falling on the other side of the popular opinion. Don't let other's being heavily weighted the other direction sway your opinion by any means...
 
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