The HD-A1's like a PC, so what!

2178 Views 54 Replies 28 Participants Last post by pcdvdguy, May 13, 2006

eganov

Discussion Starter · May 4, 2006

I've read a number of posts and seen teardowns of this unit comparing it to a PC (Pentium cpu, std memory, USB interfaces, Linux OS). This is either an explanation for the HD-A1's idiosyncrasies or a reason for profound hope that the unit can be upgraded, added on to, etc - just like a real PC. The reasons for doing this don't make a lot of sense to me at this point. I've got a dozen CE devices that are flash upgradable and very inexpensive. Also, the PC is a general purpose device designed for many functions. Generally, things that work most efficiently are designed specifically for a particular purpose. If it is, in fact, more like a PC than previous players, what is the reason for that? Did Toshiba or any other manufacturer indicate a reason?

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plazman

· #2 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by eganov
I've read a number of posts and seen teardowns of this unit comparing it to a PC (Pentium cpu, std memory, USB interfaces, Linux OS). This is either an explanation for the HD-A1's idiosyncrasies or a reason for profound hope that the unit can be upgraded, added on to, etc - just like a real PC. The reasons for doing this don't make a lot of sense to me at this point. I've got a dozen CE devices that are flash upgradable and very inexpensive. Also, the PC is a general purpose device designed for many functions. Generally, things that work most efficiently are designed specifically for a particular purpose. If it is, in fact, more like a PC than previous players, what is the reason for that? Did Toshiba or any other manufacturer indicate a reason?

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So you can surf the web and reply to emails during a boring movie

LoveMovies

· #3 · May 4, 2006

I like that fact, because it means there is considerable opportunity for upgrades and fixes. add a hard drive? install additional codecs? make it faster? add additional functionality? You would not be able to do these things if it were a few hardcoded chips all soldered to the circuit board.

eganov

Discussion Starter · #4 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMovies
I like that fact, because it means there is considerable opportunity for upgrades and fixes. add a hard drive? install additional codecs? make it faster? add additional functionality? You would not be able to do these things if it were a few hardcoded chips all soldered to the circuit board.

I understand the analogy and the possibilities but I have doubts about whether this is what was intended by Toshiba or that it will ever happen. I don't see Toshiba, or anyone else, extending the hw capabilities by adding a hard drive or ports. One would have to open the box and add brackets, connectors, replace memory, etc. I don't even see where the processor is upgradable. Even so, the user manual is full of the requisite warnings about opening the box, voiding the warranty, qualified service personnel, etc. As far as soldered, hardcoded chips, many CE devices already employ rewritable flash ram for updates. It would follow that Toshiba would not want the warranty/repair headaches caused by "normal" people fooling around inside the box. If this thing was intended to be super-upgradable I'd see the Marketing folks balking too as it would cut into new model sales. I don't want to cause a ruckus but it looks like this design was somewhat experimental and maybe done this way to expedite a quick delivery using off-the-shelf components. It will be interesting to see what the next non-clone devices look like.

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jayrader

· #5 · May 4, 2006

I find this all very comforting as it makes me think after a bit of time I can easily make my own HD DVD, BD DVD combo unit. We know that both HD DVD and BluRay drives are PC compatable, now all I need is a software decoder and a vid card with the correct output. Shazam! Combo player.

jschefdog

· #6 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by eganov
One would have to open the box and add brackets, connectors, replace memory, etc. I don't even see where the processor is upgradable. Even so, the user manual is full of the requisite warnings about opening the box, voiding the warranty, qualified service personnel, etc.

Don't forget there are two USB ports that could be used to add hard drives or other new hardware. So far I haven't read about any use for them, but they are there so Toshiba must have some plan for them.

Chris Moreau

· #7 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayrader
I find this all very comforting as it makes me think after a bit of time I can easily make my own HD DVD, BD DVD combo unit. We know that both HD DVD and BluRay drives are PC compatable, now all I need is a software decoder and a vid card with the correct output. Shazam! Combo player.

I LIKE your thinking, Jay!

Ilka

· #8 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jschefdog
Don't forget there are two USB ports that could be used to add hard drives or other new hardware. So far I haven't read about any use for them, but they are there so Toshiba must have some plan for them.

Aren't these to be used for joysticks so that we can play Pong while we wait for the disks to load???

bullgates

· #9 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilka
Aren't these to be used for joysticks so that we can play Pong while we wait for the disks to load???

Damn those add-ons. !!!

housecor

· #10 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilka
Aren't these to be used for joysticks so that we can play Pong while we wait for the disks to load???

LOL. Thanks for the chuckle.

umr

· #11 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by eganov
I've read a number of posts and seen teardowns of this unit comparing it to a PC (Pentium cpu, std memory, USB interfaces, Linux OS). This is either an explanation for the HD-A1's idiosyncrasies or a reason for profound hope that the unit can be upgraded, added on to, etc - just like a real PC. The reasons for doing this don't make a lot of sense to me at this point. I've got a dozen CE devices that are flash upgradable and very inexpensive. Also, the PC is a general purpose device designed for many functions. Generally, things that work most efficiently are designed specifically for a particular purpose. If it is, in fact, more like a PC than previous players, what is the reason for that? Did Toshiba or any other manufacturer indicate a reason?

I heard there are plans that this thing will be more interactive and internet connected. This will allow you to download applications from a disc distributor to your player or possibly play a game. It seems like this might be an attempt at making your HDTV a big computer monitor and smearing the gap between home computer and TV.

Here is one idea for an application. You get a HD-DVD in the mail with a catalog and it would allow you to purchase and look at things from your player.

Only time will tell if this kind of thing is going to really happen, but some folks are very interested in selling you things from your TV.

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kjack

· #12 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by eganov
If it is, in fact, more like a PC than previous players, what is the reason for that? Did Toshiba or any other manufacturer indicate a reason?

It was simply the fastest way to get the player to market since the HD-DVD decoding chips weren't ready yet.

BuGsArEtAsTy

· #13 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjack
It was simply the fastest way to get the player to market since the HD-DVD decoding chips weren't ready yet.

That's exactly what I think.

I'm not in the industry, but so far I have not seen chips capable of decoding VC-1, H.264 and MPEG-2 at Ã¼ber high bitrates.

I suspect once they are available (at a reasonable price), the Pentium 4 will be gone. Along with this, the units should hopefully get cheaper, quieter, and smaller too.

eganov

Discussion Starter · #14 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjack
It was simply the fastest way to get the player to market since the HD-DVD decoding chips weren't ready yet.

kjack, would you expect future models (Toshiba or otherwise) to have less PC-like components internally? Are the decoders in production yet?

thebland

· #15 · May 4, 2006

Slowwwwwwww.....liike a PC booting up!

kjack

· #16 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy
I'm not in the industry, but so far I have not seen chips capable of decoding VC-1, H.264 and MPEG-2 at Ã¼ber high bitrates.

Sigma and Broadcom have them now, and many other chips will be dribbling out between now and end of next year.

kjack

· #17 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by eganov
kjack, would you expect future models (Toshiba or otherwise) to have less PC-like components internally? Are the decoders in production yet?

Although I don't pretend to know what every player manufacturer is doing or thinking, I don't see any more "PC-like" players coming on the market. Decoding chips are already in production from us and Broadcom.

Clepto

· #18 · May 4, 2006

SOC are also MUCH cheaper, and in order to bring the prices down, will likely be a requisite of many future players. Which is why prices will be much lower for both HD DVD and BD players a year or so down the road.

Rich4av

· #19 · May 4, 2006

Thanks for the update, Keith.

The question now is how long will hardware makers need to complete, test, and ship the hardware-based decoding platforms...

rasjax

· #20 · May 4, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebland
Slowwwwwwww.....liike a PC booting up!

People that complain about slow boot times obviously don't remember computers back in the early 80's like the 8086 an 8088... talk about sllllllloooowwww. Funny how that didn't stop people from buying those either.

Ryan

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