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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First off, let me say that I am not a projector expert by any stretch of the imagination. I got my Sony VPL-VW10HT about 2 weeks ago and Peter's projector is only the second of which I got an extended demo. I suspect that Peter and the other guests have far more experience than I do.


With that out of the way...


Peter was projecting the HT200 with an ISCO II lens onto a 84" Stewart Greyhawk screen. The Greyhawk definitely looks grey when you compare it to the white walls that are next to it, but when the projector is running, the whites seem white.


Peter had a variety of DVDs to choose from, and he also demoed the local cable signal along with a copy of the Phantom Menace on laserdisc. It was quite interesting to see how the perception of the projector's abilities changed with the source material, but more on that later.


Since I have the 10HT, you can imagine that the first thing I looked for was black level. The Seleco seemed better than the 10HT but not hugely better. However, even disregarding the fact that I didn't have the 10HT there to properly A/B the two, it still isn't an even contest. The Seleco was shown with a Greyhawk, but my 10HT has at least a 100" wide picture. With either picture, however, I am fairly satisfied with the black level.


Contrast... We commented throughout the night that more important than a deep black is a high contrast ratio. Now, I know that the two are intertwined, but the Seleco seemed to have an incredible contrast ratio. This is particularly evident when looking at shadow detail. I certainly had nothing to complain about as far as overall contrast was concerned.


Rainbow effect: I couldn't see it. However, this was my first DLP demo and maybe I don't know what to look for. However, others had a very, very hard time spotting it also. I would certainly say that even if they did see it, it cropped up only very rarely and it would be a non-factor in any decision about buying this projector.


Pixels: This is, in my mind, the only real shortcoming of this projector. At 800X600, even with an ISCO II lens, you could see the pixels. Now, let me be completely honest and say that I was initially sitting 10 feet away and later in the night, I moved up to about 6 feet away. When I stood at about 15 feet away (which is where I sit in my home theater) I couldn't notice the pixels. For comparison purposes, I can still notice a screendoor effect on my 10HT from 15 feet away with the right source material.


What was particularly evident, though, with the lack of pixels is that some slight diagonal lines would jitter. To me, it looked like exactly what you would see if you used a S-Video cable from an interlaced source instead of component cables from a progressive source. Peter took a guess that we wouldn't see those artifacts if we had more pixels.


Would the relatively few pixels bother me on normal viewing? The answer became obvious when Peter threw in some DVDs that were extremely well mastered, such as the Criterion release of "The Rock". When we were watching that, even with my 6 foot viewing distance, we were hard pressed to notice any artifacts or even notice the pixel structure. We were amazed what a difference the source material makes.


I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this projector to a friend. My only concern would be whether or not it has enough resolution to deliver a great HDTV picture.


All in all, it was a great setup and a very educational experience.


Thanks for hosting the night Peter, and I stand by my offer to do a similar 10HT demo if anybody is interested.


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Brian
 

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Brian-


Great write up =) The source dependent issue is relevant with all projectors and has some solutions with screen size and how good your processor is. I may be moving my current Greyhawk out for a smaller one so that for the meantime DVD weaknesses aren't so apparent; while I wish that all DVD releases are as clean as the few reference discs out there, they aren't.


I also just ordered an overnight delivery of the AccessDTV HDTV card and will be trying it out tomorrow night...I'm afraid I'm jumping into a situation most HD lovers have which is that there isn't enough being shown! It will good to compare the best DVD's I have with the HD signal the card will output. I'm getting the card because I haven't heard of any software updates to correct the HD input problems the HT series are having, plus I trust my Radeon HTPC will do a fine job of scaling the 1080i to SVGA for me =) I'll try and post some close up pics of what the pixels look like when watching DVD vs. HD...
 

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Peter I want to thank you for the invitation and I am so sorry I could not make it. I have not been feeling well this whole week That is the reason I did not got to your home theater demo. I really wanted to see your projector at work with the GrayHawk since I am thinking about getting a GrayHawk myself.



BTW how much does a Gray Hawk sells for?


Again thanks for the inviation and sorry I could not make it.


Dennis
 

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I wholeheartedly agree with Brian's assessment. I too thoroughly enjoyed the demonstration and concur with Brian's comments. The fact that we were able to sit so close to the screen and enjoy the picture from the Seleco HT200, particularly on the source material like "The Rock" DVD, shows how far projectors have come. For the record, I am also not an expert on the subject as I am in the process of building my first home theater.


On a side note, given how difficult it is to find a decent home theater setup in any retail store or even a good specialty shop, it is a credit to this forum that its members are willing to invite other members into their homes so we can actually experience the equipment so frequently discussed and dissected here.


Thanks again to our gracious host, Peter. When my own HT setup is ready, I also plan to extend the invitation to our local members. Until the retailers "catch up" with the forum, this is the only way we can make informed purchases.


Alan.


P.S. It was almost as much fun looking out Peter's windows as it was watching the demo.
 

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I start this by saying that this was the first "in home" dlp i have auditioned....the rooms at the Hifi show don't count, because it is always nice to see how "real" people set them up. i agree with the others, that it is great for people to be so generous and allow others over---I will be more than welcome to return the favor in a month or two when my system is complete.


on that note, I was very impressed by this SVGA projector---i thought resolution would be an issue, but from 10 ft away on the 84" greyhawk, i didn't notice anything, except poor DVD mastering! reminded me a lot of the Panny plasma vs. the others---resolution definitely isn't everything! However, in all fairness, Peter didn't have HDTV set up yet, so that would be interesting to see how the projector scales it down to 800x600. this is where the HT250 problably shines. One other sidenote, is that Peter hadn't had time to set it up with Avia, so I believe the picture will even be better---which was already spectacular. The black levels were very good, and I didn't see any problems on the Fifth Element. The reds still really impress me on the Selecos...they are so true in color. Overall, the picture was very detailed and "vivrant" i feel, and I had no problems with contrast at all. Still very easy to see shadowing as some of the others agreed. The Greyhawk I am sure adds to this as well...


Much thanks goes out to Peter for putting up with us for 2.5 hours!


PS. I rarely noticed any rainbow effect...definitely not enough to prevent me recommending the projector to anyone (and this one is on my personal list too) and it seemed the others agreed as we were all looking for it!


PSS. Oh yeah, it really sucked going home to my 32" panny http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif
 

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I just wanted to comment on the rainbow effect. I saw the HT250 at CES, and I thought the rainbow was *horrible*. I literally felt sick after watching it for a short time. (I believe they were the ones that had lost their Grayhawk, however, and were showing it on a no-name screen.) My wife didn't see any rainbow, however, so I am at least a little sensitive to it.


The HT200 at Peter's place on the Grayhawk, however, I saw practically no rainbow. Only on credit-type scenes, i.e. white text on a black background. But during movies, nothing at all.


My only concern was the apparent scaler artifact that I posted about in this thread (although no one has replied yet). It was not annoying, just mildly distracting.


And thanks again to Peter for being the gracious host!


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
One thing that I forgot to mention and it hit me last night as I was watching the 10HT. The noise from the HT200 was much less audible than what I have from the 10HT.


I'm considering making a hushbox for my 10HT and I don't believe that that would be necessary for the HT200


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Brian
 

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Brian-


Really?! The 10HT is the most quiet projector I've ever heard...are you running Cinema Black mode? Apart from the initial 3 second blast of loud air the 10HT is ultra whisper quiet-
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes. On most scenes it is difficult to hear, but on quiet scenes it does stand out a bit. Unfortunately, it's one of those things that once you hear it, you notice it for the rest of the night.


It certainly isn't so loud that I consider a hushbox to be a necessity, but it would help a bunch in reducing the noise floor. Since my home theater is in the basement, I already have a fairly low noise floor - I can guess that if I had other ambient noise, I wouldn't even notice the 10HT.


Also, as we mentioned at your apartment, us home theater enthusiasts are a lot more critical than the average viewer. I would bet that most visitors wouldn't be bothered by the noise of the 10HT.


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Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Somebody mentioned on another thread that the Matrix is actually a poor movie to use for critical viewing. The problem is that the movie has a green cast on it (which is intentional.) If you are trying to get a sense of color purity and how black a projector can get, the Matrix might lead you astray.


With that said, we still asked Peter to put the Matrix on http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Unfortunately, he left it at the office.


Back to the color quality issue. The colors seemed to be very accurate, but a few of the movies were new to me so I wouldn't be able to say confidently whether or not they were accurate. I wished we brought Avia because some of the video test patterns would've answered a great many of these questions.


I will say that on well-mastered material, I found it impossible to try to view the movie with a critical eye and instead found myself getting absorbed by it. In the end, I would say that this is what matters the most.


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Brian
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by bpaulsen:
I wished we brought Avia because some of the video test patterns would've answered a great many of these questions.
I agree that for future get-togethers, we should always view some Avia and/or Video Essentials.


Mike
 

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Brian/Peter,



any comments about color quality? I had a chance to see the 10HT and HT200 at different occasions and I noticed better colors for 10HT (ex: skin). Or maybe the HT200 wasn't adjusted at that time?


Have you done tests using The Matrix? This film has many night scenes, and for the 10HT the lack of contrast was evident; I'd like to know how does it work using the HT200.


Paulo
 

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Peter,


One thing to keep in mind about any of the current HDTV cards is that they have a limited set of resolutions that they can output. In essence, all of these cards have onboard VGA outputs that are not tied to the normal computer VGA output in any way. In fact the only thing these cards do is act a video switcher. However, the AccessDTV and the WinTV-HD both allow video overlay of standard definition on the primary VGA monitor, but all HDTV output is produced by the card itself and cannot be scaled by your normal video card.


It also happens that all cards based on the Janus chipset from Teralogic have the same basic resolution and aspect ratio options. 800x600 is not one of current resolution options, thus the projector will have to scale one of the other resolutions to the native panel res. The card can output 1024x768 and both HDTV formats. Namely, 1080i and 720p so if your projector can sync to those resolutions you should not have a problem.


Otherwise, I find the output of the WinTV-HD with my XGA projector to be of very high quality. Much better than the best DVDs. It's not a subtle difference. DVDs seem kind of soft in comparison. With a SVGA projector the results may not be so dramatic, but you will be very pleased with the result I'm sure.

 

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bpaulsen,


I think you were carried away by the moment at Peter Kang's. I've had both the VW10HT and HT200 in my home at the same time, and there's no question the Sony is significantly quieter, and the sound it does make is lower in pitch and less annoying.


The ONLY projector that beats the quiet of the VW10HT (in Cinema Black mode), is a Dwin HD700 CRT. A G90 is close, too.
 
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