AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,587 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

Quote:
"Marantz America (Itasca, IL) rolled into the CEDIA trade show in September to show off it's first DLP-based front projection system and a new 55-inch DLP-based rear-projection system. According to Dan Miller, Marketing and Training Manager at Marantz, the new VP-12S1 HD front projector garnered a significant amount of attention.


"The VP-12S1 HD DLP projector has 40% more contrast than Sharp's XV-Z9000U DLP front projector with the added benefit of Faroudja color processing," said Miller. We also learned that there will be two models of this projector; one for the U.S. and one for Japan. Miller says the U.S. model will offer a whopping 1300:1 contrast ratio and 700 ANSI lumens, whereas the Japanese version will have 1300 lumens and contrast of perhaps 700:1.


Both versions are likely to use the latest wide-aspect chip set from Texas Instruments, the HD-2, which features a 12-degree tilt mirror and resolution of 1280 x 720 pixels. The electronics package includes three Sage decoders, and deinterlacer and video enhancer chips using Faroudja technology. It has a sealed light path to prevent dust for entering the optical system and high quality optics from Minolta.


"We underestimated the appeal of this projector and now have an order backlog," notes Miller. "There will also be some OEM deals to supply both the projector and the optical engine." The VP-12S1 HD is expected to retail for $12,999 with a street price of around $12,000. It should be available by the end of the year."

In another thread about the Marantz this was posted as being a news release on the new Marantz.

Has this been confirmed? Are the newest 12-degree HD-2 DMD chips shipping to manufactures ?

Why would you want to use the older tech 10-degree HD-1 if this is shipping as the contrast ratio should be a lot better with these 12-degree HD-2 DMD's.



DavidW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,289 Posts
I think the Sharp 9000 uses the same element.


I'm wondering if Panasonic, Hitachi and Mitsubishi will update their RPTVs with this new chip as well in the next generation.


------------------

Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
IS the 9000 using the same chip? If the 9000 uses an HD1 and the Marantz uses an HD2, aren't they different? Confirmation anyone?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,289 Posts
I posted on another thread that I had read something to the effect that the Sharp was using a "new version of the 720p DMD optimized for front projectors". So, either this is the HD-2 or there was a revision of the HD-1. Or the thing I read was totally wrong.


------------------

Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
529 Posts
Does anyone know which chip the Seleco HT300 or Dwin is using? Sharp's reported contrast is 1100:1 as is the Seleco's. I don't know how the Marantz rep can say the Marantz has 40% increase over the Sharp's contrast. In the end does it really matter? Look at all the happy owners of the Seleco HT200DM. The specs aren't the greatest on paper, but most just comment on how great the picture quality is with DVD's. The waiting game could go on forever. I'm sure TI will release the HD-3 chip with Kryptonite mirrors that tilt 50 degrees and have 5000:1 contrast ratio soon after projectors start shipping with the HD-2 chip. I think any of the new DLP's (Sharp, Dwin, Seleco, Marantz, etc.) will offer a very satisfying home theater experience, with some better than others, but none that offer an "unwatchable" picture. If you get caught up in waiting and waiting for the latest and greatest, you'll never be truly happy because there will always be improvements that make you second guess your purchase. Just my opinion, no attacks please. I am soon to be the very happy owner of the 9000Z.




[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 10-05-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
For me the 9000 is all the projector I need. To spend anymore would be a waste of money. If a company wants to impress me, make a model as good as the 9000 and sell it under $4000.

By the way, the Sharp 9000 was gone the last time I went to Audio Advice. This does not surprise me at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
529 Posts
This is the lastest press release regarding the HD-1 chip. It looks like the Sharp is using an improved version and the press release confirms 1100:1 contrast ratio. There is no mention of the HD-2 chip anywhere on the TI site, although there are no October press releases yet, so maybe the site has not been updated. A September press release discusses the number of DLP projectors introduced at Cedia, all based upon the new version of the HD-1 chip. The Marantz rep is incorrect on the Sharp contrast ratio spec, so maybe he is wrong on the HD-2 nomenclature


8/8/2001


Texas Instruments creates new home cinema standard with HD DLPâ„¢ technology



Sharp Electronics Corporation announces first product to feature HD-1 DMD in home entertainment projector


Dallas, Texas - August 8th 2001: In support of its strategy to make DLPâ„¢ technology the technology of choice for home entertainment projection/display systems, Texas Instruments (TI) (NYSE: TXN) today announced availability of a new version of the Digital Micromirror Device (DMD), the semiconductor chip which is at the heart of Digital Light Processingâ„¢ technology. The new DMD is a version of the previously-announced HD-1, but optimized for front projection applications. Concurrently, Sharp Electronics Corporation has announced the XV-Z9000U front projector for home theater based on the new technology. The XV-Z9000 is the world's first single-panel DLPâ„¢ technology-enabled, high definition front projector for home theater. It was first previewed by Sharp at this year's Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas.


"This announcement has long been awaited by home theater enthusiasts around the world," said Adam Kunzman, Manager of Home Portable Entertainment Products for TI's DLPâ„¢ Products division. "Everyone values the outstanding image quality for which DLP technology is renowned, but want true HD, 16:9 capability in addition. Now, they can have it."


The HD-1 features an array of 1,280 x 720 pixels, allowing it to deliver both native support for 720p as well as 16:9 aspect ratio, giving it true High Definition (HD) capability. The HD resolution of the new device offers improved sharpness for all picture formats and sources such as NTSC- and PAL-originated DVDs. Graphics applications - such as PC games - are also supported, thus providing home users a 'best of all worlds' solution featuring both outstanding video and exceptional graphics performance.


"TI has enabled Sharp to develop a groundbreaking high definition front projector which delivers images which will satisfy even the most ardent videophiles, but at a consumer-level price point," said Frank DeMartin, director of product marketing, Sharp Electronics Corporation. "We're excited about the potential for the XV-Z9000, which we believe will set a new standard for performance in consumer home theater."


The HD-1 also benefits from a new production process which has enabled the XV-Z9000U to achieve a contrast ratio of 1,100:1, enabling it to deliver markedly superior image quality. This, together with the greatly reduced pixellation which is a key feature of DLPâ„¢ technology, is expected to make projectors featuring DLPâ„¢ technology the solution of choice for discerning home theater buyers.


"This new version of the DMD is the first we have developed specifically for front projection video applications," said Dale Zimmerman, Manager of DLPâ„¢ Home Entertainment Products, "and is indicative of our strategic commitment to making DLP technology the market-leading technology for all home entertainment applications, whether front or rear projection. We're delighted by Sharp's early commitment, and expect other companies to follow in the near future."


A version of the HD-1 has previously featured in rear projection home entertainment systems featuring DLPâ„¢ technology from Hitachi, Mitsubishi and Panasonic.


This announcement follows closely on an announcement TI made on May 4th of a new version of the DMD which would provide native support for 480p and a 16:9 aspect ratio. Today's announcement extends the family of DMDs that have been specifically designed for home entertainment applications, and demonstrates TI's commitment to establishing DLPâ„¢ technology as the technology of choice in the consumer projection/display market.


"Our high-definition DLP display technology simply provides the best contrast and image quality available today," continued Kunzman. "Advances in DLP electronics - including faster operation of the DMD - together with the increased 300+Hz speed of the color wheel have virtually eliminated color separation artifacts, enabling projectors based on DLP technology to deliver image quality which is unsurpassed."


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,544 Posts
Guys, the Sharp 9000 manual reads 800:1 contrast ratio....I guess the best thing to do is trust your eyes and not the sometimes over-hyped specs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
855 Posts
Talking privately to one of the TI people at CEDIA, they weren't even shipping HD-2 samples to their OEMs, yet. I don't know how Marantz can ship a product based on a chip that hasn't started sampling.

Quote:
Both versions are likely to use the latest wide-aspect chip set from Texas Instruments, the HD-2, which features a 12-degree tilt mirror and resolution of 1280 x 720 pixels.
Notice that this information about the HD2 is not attributed to Mr. Miller and appears to be conjecture (the word "likely") on the reporter's part.


------------------


Huck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,254 Posts
Perhaps Marantz is trolling for customers. Maybe the HD-2 is coming out soon (early next year) and Marantz is waiting on that before they release the projector. Could be that this press release is to keep people from buying the Sharp in anticipation of the improved contrast. Wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer anounced a projector well before it ships (still waiting on the InFocus HT).


This is all speculation and conjuncture based on no information.


-phil


[This message has been edited by PhilB (edited 10-05-2001).]
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,963 Posts
The new 16x9 chips are indeed the same 1024x768 4x3 chips with the top and bottom mirrors disabled and matted and the software re written for the new configuration!


------------------

Alan Gouger

Thanks for supporting AV Science.
www.avscience.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
855 Posts
Alan,


My understanding is:


The HD-1 is 1280x720 with 10 degrees of tilt and was built as a 1280x720 device. The, so far, unseen HD-2 is supposed to be 1280x720 with 12 degrees of tilt. The DMDs in the DM style projectors are 848x600 (SVGA+) and can use either 848x480 or 800x600. The XGA chips (1024x768) and the SXGA chips (1280x1024) are just that.


Which chip or projector are you talking about? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


------------------


Huck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
859 Posts
Alan, perhaps my math is wrong, but, how would you reformat a chip with 1024 pixels across to have 1280? Certainly you could mask 768 down to 720, but the width wouldn't add up.


------------------

"Experience is the one thing you can't get for nothing." - Oscar Wilde
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
855 Posts
I still don't see how Marantz could tweak their optics (10 degree vs 12 degree makes a BIG (20%) difference) and electronics (TI tends to come out with new drive electronics when they ship new DMD designs) and ship in 1Q02 if the DMDs sample in November. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/confused.gif


CES should tell.


------------------


Huck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
855 Posts
Check out the discussion with Pete Broas (DLP Marketing). There is a bit of information in there about 12 degree devices (if I remember correctly). http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


EDIT: I should have looked in that thread earlier. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Mr. Broas said, "As for Consumer products incorporating the higher tilt angle mirror, they will be available in the 2H next year." (5/21/01 - 10:54 AM)


------------------


Huck


[This message has been edited by Huckster (edited 10-05-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,587 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
From what my dealer found out by ringing a few of his manufacturers friends (I pointed him to Projector Central) they all said that the HD-2 (12-degree) was being pushed ahead for CES. One of the things that is hard to do due to NDA is get a quote (unless its shipping).


Now I do not think that Marantz would be able to release a HD-2 unit this year (thats obvious), but the marketing advantage with releasing the HD-2 at CES may be a big winner and worth them holding off till then.

Of course what Pete Broas (TI Marketing) said in May on the guest forum could well have changed.


What was also very interesting is that when my dealer called a few of his contacts the "HD-2 and the Infocus name" came up. With so many still to announce formal 1280x720 specs, and with so many manufacturers still not releasing, it was obvious that something was holding some of these manufacturers back.


Also with all the LcOS and DILA stuff shown at Infocomm (Hitachi,Sanyo,Philips,3M,Samsung,Infocus) perhaps TI are seeing some sort of threat. The 12-degree DMD technology may be needed from a marketing standpoint, especially with the amazing DLA-QX1 which is pushing the technology limit and perhaps attracting manufacturers attention away from the often very slow moving TI.


Of course I think a "direct comment" from TI and Marantz on the Projector Central (Marantz piece)is fully necessary.



DavidW
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,254 Posts
Huckster,


You are correct.


-phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,587 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well after a phone call or two, "it would seem" as though the HD-2 is in actual fact getting ready to ship. Initial sample quantities are slated to ship by mid to late November.


TI reportably said that actual projectors with the HD-2 will start shipping in the 1st quarter of 2002. TI also said that the new 12-degree HD-2 will have a 40% better contrast ratio than the previous 10-degree DMD.


No wonder the 40% never made sense (its a quoted TI spec) it looks to me as though Marantz is hoping to use the HD-2 instead of the HD-1, but it may depend on when exactly TI actually starts shipping as to what DMD the Marantz contains.


CES will tell the story. I guess some manufactures will wait for the better HD-2 with its 12-degree mirrors while others will be quite happy to take the sales lead up to the big Christmas sales.



DavidW
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,963 Posts
I was told yesterday by someone in the industry that the current 1024x768 chips were being used.


I posted to this without doing the math.

Sometimes I speak without thinking thing first.


Being in the biz I talk to a lot of people and hear a lot of things. Because some of these people are well established in the industry I tend to believe they know what they are talking about. In this case he was wrong and so was I to believe him.


Ok its embarrassing to admit I was wrong...I'm glad its the weekend http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


------------------

Alan Gouger

Thanks for supporting AV Science.
www.avscience.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,465 Posts
I looked at TI's DLP site and did a Google search for "DLP" and "HD-2", and came up with nothing. Can someone give me a URL to a site that explains the advantages (and disadvantages, if any) of 12 degree vs 10 degree mirror tilt? I understand it results in improved contrast, but I'd like a little more info. Thanks.


CRT owner waiting and wanting to go digital
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top