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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted this in the LG BH200 FAQ but it's probably worthy of another thread. (If not please delete
)


So I put on THE ILLUSIONIST Blu-Ray on my BH200 tonight and was expecting to see the supplements "blacked out" because we all know no current U.S. BD player converts PAL for viewing on NTSC sets (you need a PAL capable display in other words). Josh Z mentioned this in his review so I just for kicks tried it out anyway...needless to say I was STUNNED because the extras DID play properly. Perfectly in fact.


I then tried other BD's with PAL content -- like the new ITV Blu Rays and the French DUNE import -- and ALL of them played back properly also!



Even better, I found out PAL SD discs I have ALSO worked perfectly after I applied both the standard-def "Region free" hack AND the PAL-enabled EEPROM setting (oddly, NEITHER of those needed to be applied in order to play back the PAL-encoded extras on those BD discs. They DO need to be applied to play back SD region coded PAL titles, however).


The combination resulted in all PAL discs playing back properly on my Samsung DLP' NTSC set...one which is incapable of receiving PAL signals on its own, or from the Toshiba XA2 and Panasonic BD30, both of which I also own.


At any rate, I can now get rid of my Oppo (the Qdeo video processing is superior to the Faroudja in every facet!) and can now firmly say the BH200 is the best DVD player I've owned, at least for its compatability with every disc I have



EDIT: I am also using the April firmware update and 702 loader with the PAL-EEPROM setting enabled and the standard-def DVD hack applied.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by allargon /forum/post/14234486


Hit the resolution button a few times and determine whether or not it truly converts it.

Wont let me change the resolution. Works at 1080p though.
 

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I'm confused...I thought BD discs do not have PAL vs. NTSC but only region locks if the studio decided to author it that way?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by pobff /forum/post/14235336


I'm confused...I thought BD discs do not have PAL vs. NTSC but only region locks if the studio decided to author it that way?

There are standard-def extras on some Blu Ray import titles that only play in PAL. The movies themselves play fine but on most players, these extras play back with a blank screen. The LG doesn't, it actually converts it to NTSC, it seems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by allargon /forum/post/14234892


Stop the disc.


1080p is not NTSC or PAL.

OK I put in the BUGSY MALONE and ILLUSIONIST Blu-Rays again. Those PAL encoded extras still play in 720p, 1080i, etc. so they are most definitely being converted to NTSC.


Sorry I might have been a bit confused before -- the DVD I was referring to earlier was a standard-def PAL disc being upscaled to 1080p. If it's playing and displaying it properly, then it's still being converted to NTSC, because I don't have a native PAL display. (As a side note, I changed resolutions on the standard-def PAL discs too and they're all playing properly at 720p, 1080i, etc. also.)
 

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Have you verified that your TV does not support PAL resolutions? It's somewhat rare, but NTSC TVs can also support PAL. Elsewhere in the world it's common to support both.


The HDMI EDID logs will contain info on the resolutions your TV supports (the BH200 and your TV/display exchange info over HDMI, and as bradavon noted on the first page of the FAQ, Krobar found a way to display the info that's logged during that exchange).


From bradavon's FAQ:
Quote:
* How do I display the System, ATAPI and HDMI EDID Logs?


Thanks to forum member Krobar for discovering this hack and Dring for confirming it works.

Instructions:


1. Make sure no disc is in the tray

2. Press PAUSE, 2, 4, 8, 6, 5


To exit the menu press the RETURN button. You can then select System Log, ATAPI Log or HDMI EDID. Followed by paging through the logs using the up and down direction keys on the remote.


You can read more information about this hack here.

As mentioned, page through the log to find a section where the TV reports which resolutions it supports. You might find some PAL resolutions listed.


e.g. [email protected]


Enough other posters have indicated the player does not convert from PAL to NTSC that I suspect your TV/display itself supports PAL.
 

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The original poster here may be a answering a question I've been meaning to ask...


For reference...


SD has PAL vs NTSC considerations so either your TV has to support PAL or your player has to convert.


HD is neither PAL nor ATSC.


So... while I wondered what might happen if I hooked up composite (or even component) or S-video from the LG to a TV and played an SD PAL disc... thinking probably that it wouldn't work but wondering "what if" at the same time... I considered the upconverting over HDMI.


HDMI is a digital connection... so the result of the upconvert (because of other compatibility reasons) has to be the same, assuming it is able (i.e. not restricted) to upconvert.


And finally my question...


While an SD PAL disc might not play via tha analog outputs of the LG... would they not play upconverted over HDMI since that connection by definition is neither PAL nor NTSC? Thus the player seems like it *should* essentially convert PAL to something your non-PAL TV can use as long as it is via HDMI, right?


I don't have an HDMI HDTV so it doesn't matter to me... but my father does, and while I bought the Samsung for myself I've been encouraging him to look at the LG.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Enough other posters have indicated the player does not convert from PAL to NTSC that I suspect your TV/display itself supports PAL.

Wow, that's amazing. So BOTH sets I own accept some kind of PAL signal then?


For kicks, I moved my BH200 into my bedroom and tried it on my Philips 37 LCD. I did the Monitor Support Video Resolution you suggested and it did show up with a few 50hz resolutions (1280x720P, 50hz; 1920 x1080I, 50hz; 720x576p and 720X576i, 50hz).


I didn't try it on my Samsung DLP -- and it failed to accept the PAL 50hz signal coming out of my Toshiba XA2 when I tried that player's hack last summer -- but I suppose that ALSO is accepting some kind of PAL resolution then? (I will re-hook it back up and try it again soon just to find out).


I'm stunned, I didn't think either of these TV's would play PAL...they're both fairly recent, and both the Panasonic BD30 wouldn't output a PAL signal and neither would the XA2 I owned. Maybe the LG just has more resolutions that could potentially work in it??
 

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@ DM2006RI : What's the make/model of your Display equipment? A web search usually finds out if a TV supports PAL. I'd also do as oilblue suggests and check the LG BH200 Log. You cannot do any harm by having a quick gander (look).


You need to confirm if your Display equipment does or does not support PAL first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pobff /forum/post/14235336


I'm confused...I thought BD discs do not have PAL vs. NTSC but only region locks if the studio decided to author it that way?

To add to what DM2006RI said above, most SD extras on BD/HD-DVD are NTSC (even in PAL countries) but some are ported from the DVDs so are in PAL. It strictly only affects the extras of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/14237087


While an SD PAL disc might not play via tha analog outputs of the LG... would they not play upconverted over HDMI since that connection by definition is neither PAL nor NTSC? Thus the player seems like it *should* essentially convert PAL to something your non-PAL TV can use as long as it is via HDMI, right?

That's a good point you raise there.


Firstly you definitely need to enable PAL support, as otherwise the BH200 chucks the disc out without even trying to play it. Once that's enabled it may still not work because while it's being upscaled it's still PAL and thus has PALs attributes.


As far as I know upscaling just adjusts the output resolution to 1280x720p/1920x1080i/1920x1080p and nothing much more.


p.s - It's worth creating a new thread for this one, things tend to get a bit lost in the big threads.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/14237087


The original poster here may be a answering a question I've been meaning to ask...


For reference...


SD has PAL vs NTSC considerations so either your TV has to support PAL or your player has to convert.


HD is neither PAL nor ATSC.

HD doesn't use the PAL or NTSC colo(u)r space but it still has PAL-ish (50hz) vs NTSC-ish (60hz) refresh rates, and this is what we really mean. When I play PAL DVDs the BH200 upconverts them to 1080p at 50hz, anything else is 1080p at 60hz. Changing from 50hz to 60hz involves a pretty different process from changing resolution and I'd be quite surprised if the BH200 were capable of it. I think it's more likely that the OP's TV can in fact display 50hz signals. If it's a fairly recent TV of a kind that is also available in PAL countries the odd aren't that bad. Conversely, there's a good chance that the XA2 and BD30 can't play PAL unless they've been specifically hacked.
 

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And in the case of the LG BH100/200, it's an official Hack. It's how LG enable/disable PAL for each territory. I asked the LG engineer a few months back why not just leave it enabled for everyone but I didn't get an answer.


Hardware wise: The power supply and plug type are the only things differing a USA from European BH200.


Contrary to what another user said (I forget who), when I set my European (Belgium to be precise) BH200 from it's default 92 to 80 it changed the output type from 576p to 480p. The 576 resolution is now completely gone, unless I put it back of course.


Not that that matters when you want to use 1080i or higher anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
@ DM2006RI: What's the make/model of your Display equipment? A web search usually finds out if a TV supports PAL. I'd also do as oilblue suggests and check the LG BH200 Log. You cannot do any harm by having a quick gander (look). You need to confirm if your Display equipment does or does not support PAL first.

That's the big mystery here, isn't it? Even after double-checking the manuals and online specs of my TVs, neither set gives any indication at all they play PAL. Both specifically state NTSC and that's it.


For the record, my two sets which both play PAL off the BH200 after the region hack are:


HL-S5087W (Samsung 50 DLP, purchased Dec. 06 thru Amazon)

37PFL5322D/37 (Philips 37 LCD, purchased in April thru Newegg)


cheers
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterjcat /forum/post/14238970


HD doesn't use the PAL or NTSC colo(u)r space but it still has PAL-ish (50hz) vs NTSC-ish (60hz) refresh rates, and this is what we really mean. When I play PAL DVDs the BH200 upconverts them to 1080p at 50hz, anything else is 1080p at 60hz. Changing from 50hz to 60hz involves a pretty different process from changing resolution and I'd be quite surprised if the BH200 were capable of it. I think it's more likely that the OP's TV can in fact display 50hz signals. If it's a fairly recent TV of a kind that is also available in PAL countries the odd aren't that bad. Conversely, there's a good chance that the XA2 and BD30 can't play PAL unless they've been specifically hacked.

I guess what I'm thinking/considering is that the HDTV specifications along with the HDMI connection specifications may very well be defined in such a way as to require that any two devices (TV and player in this case) which are to be paired together meet the same requirements... in which case an HDTV with an HDMI interface might be required to be capable of taking all the inputs in the current standard... and the same said for the player... such that any upconversion over HDMI results in an acceptable signal for any HDTV regardless of PAL/NTSC original SD source material.


Granted, I'm entirely speculating here... but the original poster's results might support my thoughts and hopes since it would fit my father's needs nicely for his setup.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/14241660


I guess what I'm thinking/considering is that the HDTV specifications along with the HDMI connection specifications may very well be defined in such a way as to require that any two devices (TV and player in this case) which are to be paired together meet the same requirements... in which case an HDTV with an HDMI interface might be required to be capable of taking all the inputs in the current standard... and the same said for the player... such that any upconversion over HDMI results in an acceptable signal for any HDTV regardless of PAL/NTSC original SD source material.

That would be a good idea but I don't think that's quite how it works -- it's entirely possible to have a player/display that only transmits/accepts a subset of the available resolutions and timings. There are plenty of examples, eg not that many players/displays deal with 1080p/24 yet, and in the US the ability to output or display 50hz timings is far from universal.


Upconversion is one thing, reclocking from a 24hz/60hz source to 50hz is a different thing entirely and not at all trivial if you want to avoid artifacts. The HDMI connection is digital but it still tends to preserve the characteristics of the source.


Now it may be that the BH200 looks for a 50hz signal, and if it doesn't find one does the best it can to output a 50hz source at 60hz. But the other possibility is that the OP's TV can be made to accept a 50hz signal even if it doesn't advertise the fact.


If the OP would dig around in the LG's memory to see what display resolutions/timings are listed, we'd have a better idea.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
If the OP would dig around in the LG's memory to see what display resolutions/timings are listed, we'd have a better idea.

I mentioned what I found on my 37' Philips LCD a few posts up. In addition to the 60hz resolutions, here were a number of 50hz resolutions on this LCD that showed up in that BH200 HDMI log one of the other posters suggested -- to be precise, they are:


1280x720P, 50hz;

1920 x1080I, 50hz;

720x576p 50hz;

720X576i, 50hz.


I need to hook the player up on my Samsung DLP to find out what 50hz resolution that TV apparently DOES support, because as I wrote before, whatever 50hz signal my hacked XA2 supported, it didn't work on that TV. One of the LG's 50hz resolutions looks like it does, I take it.


If you'd like me to run another one of those logs, just let me know. I'm as curious to find out why this is working as anyone



I just find it really really odd (and a gigantic coincidence) I just happened to buy two different NTSC TVs that both support some (it seems) PAL resolutions...perhaps it's becoming more commonplace these days?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterjcat /forum/post/14242299


The HDMI connection is digital but it still tends to preserve the characteristics of the source.

As it should. The less converting the better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterjcat /forum/post/14242299


But the other possibility is that the OP's TV can be made to accept a 50hz signal even if it doesn't advertise the fact.

Or it may support PAL to an extent, even if it doesn't support it 100%.


There's been cases of that on the forum, whereby a PAL DVD works fine but the screen is black when the BH200 is first turned on, and outputting a 50Hz signal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Or it may support PAL to an extent, even if it doesn't support it 100%.


There's been cases of that on the forum, whereby a PAL DVD works fine but the screen is black when the BH200 is first turned on, and outputting a 50Hz signal.

That's the case with me -- when loading a PAL movie on my Philips LCD, the opening splash logo appears, then the blue screen and the movie.


On the Samsung DLP, the opening logo screen is black, then the blue screen comes on and the movie appears.
 
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