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Discussion Starter #41

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn /forum/post/0


So ,another Tier thread where film that looked just as intended is given low marks because it looks like a pristine reproduction of the original.Another thread where the studio and compression engineers did a perfect job of transfer but they get low marks because it doesn't look like an XBox game.



Please call the thread the eye candy thread since PQ should be what it should look like not a nebulous ever changing concept of what we wish it were.


The movie 300 will be trashed here when it comes out if the studio does it's best and gives us a perfect transfer. Something wrong here.


Art

All valid questions that need to be asked, really. And I for one agreed with you. If you could see the original thread, I was one of the ones who argued for "director's intent." If we're continuing with Fett's thread, then you already know the answers to your questions. If we're not, we're certainly getting off to a start where we're emulating his thread and it should be stated. I hate to say it, but maybe there should be some real discussion about how this should work before anything gets serious. Hammering out the details as we go might be a bad way to start. Then again, it's not my thread.
 

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Since there is no way to know exactly directors intent and since no one here has the master reels to compare to each release to, the best we can ever hope to do is judge the PQ of the discs as they look on people's TV.


There is nothing wrong with judging each discs and rating them based on the Picture Quality of what's on the disc. That's all we have and it should be judged that way.


Being transparent to the master doesn't mean the disc is going to look good and people would like to know which discs look good and which don't.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enola /forum/post/0


how did this thread get a sticky already? not necessarily a bad thing, just curious.

With all the attention and noted importance of the thread today it was offered to both camps.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiffylush /forum/post/0


I think we should start fresh on the list, it would be more work but more people would feel like their opinions were factored into the rankings.


my .02


FWIW I think the best thing about the tier list is being able to compare the PQ of movies you haven't seen with movies you have seen. (I realize that was probably the original intent, but it seems that needs to be clarified)

There are too many movies to start over....


If you think a film is really far off (2 tiers away from where it should be), we can discuss it on a case by case basis. But I don't want to redo the whole thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #48

Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephShaw /forum/post/0


All valid questions that need to be asked, really. And I for one agreed with you. If you could see the original thread, I was one of the ones who argued for "director's intent." If we're continuing with Fett's thread, then you already know the answers to your questions. If we're not, we're certainly getting off to a start where we're emulating his thread and it should be stated. I hate to say it, but maybe there should be some real discussion about how this should work before anything gets serious. Hammering out the details as we go might be a bad way to start. Then again, it's not my thread.

I believe it should be directors intent. That being said I had to start somewhere so I borrowed a list as a starting point. Going forward vote on the threads for the movies themselves and express your thoughts there. I believe a directors intent is important when viewing a movie because some are grainy by nature...but everyone has their opinion and not everyone will be happy all of the time.


For those interested my opinion will count equal to anyone else's...though I do have a TV which reproduces picture about as good as it gets
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinSTI /forum/post/0


I believe it should be directors intent. That being said I had to start somewhere so I borrowed a list as a starting point. Going forward vote on the threads for the movies themselves and express your thoughts there. I believe a directors intent is important when viewing a movie because some are grainy by nature...but everyone has their opinion and not everyone will be happy all of the time.

Well, I also believe, like others, that sometimes directors intent is going to be hard to prove. What are the guidelines for determining director's intent? Is there any way it can be done in an objective manner?


Edited to add: it's obvious on a film like 300, Ultraviolet, etc. that there's a definite stylistic choice being made with the image presented, but others not so much.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger /forum/post/0


With all the attention and noted importance of the thread today it was offered to both camps.

excellent. its nice not having to look down the list to find these threads!
 

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Quote:
What are the guidelines for determining director's intent?

By seeing the film in a theater would be the only practical way.

I'm guessing that very few people in this forum go to movies and actually have no idea what the film looks like in a good theater.

Not a knock, just a statement.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 /forum/post/0


By seeing the film in a theater would be the only practical way.

I'm guessing that very few people in this forum go to movies and actually have no idea what the film looks like in a good theater.

Not a knock, just a statement.

Well, having five children is just one of the reasons why I built my own theater.
Correction, I am building. I'm nowhere near done.


Please forgive me while I play devil's advocate, but...


That being said, film prints degrade over time. Seeing a film a week after it hits theaters is going to be a different experience, visually, than viewing that same film during it's first run. This was what was pointed out to me in the original thread. Maybe if you see a digital projection of the film movie, you get a better idea, but again, not the same.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 /forum/post/0


By seeing the film in a theater would be the only practical way.

I'm guessing that very few people in this forum go to movies and actually have no idea what the film looks like in a good theater.

Not a knock, just a statement.

very true. i live in winnipeg and NO theatre here can match the PQ of either HD format. all the theatre's make the movies have a soft, slightly grainy look to them. it sucks, but makes being an owner of both HD formats seem all the more worthwhile to me.
 

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Austin,


Here is a recent copy of the original tier thread, which may help with placing movies that you don't currently have on the list.


I saved it just in case this happened..


You're off to a good start with this new thread! =)


____________________________________________


TIER 0 -PLATINUM-

Completely flawless picture. No artifacts whatsoever, no matter how small.


Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (PCM)

Corpse Bride

A Scanner Darkly


TIER 1 -GOLD-

Little if any visible compression. Sharp image with many examples of 3D.


Chicken Little (PCM)

Open Season (PCM)

Crank (PCM)(IME)

Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl (PCM)

Happy Feet

The Wild (PCM)

The Ant Bully

Apocalypto (PCM)

Happily N'Ever After

Black Hawk Down (BW)(PCM)

Kingdom of Heaven (MA)


TIER 2 -SILVER-

Not as many 3D effects, but a sharp image that feels real.


Ice Age: The Meltdown (MA)(banding in sky shots)

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (MA)

Tears of the Sun (PCM)

Underworld: Evolution (PCM)

Casino Royale (PCM)

Legends of Jazz (THD)

Blood Diamond (PCM)

Gridiron Gang (PCM)

Discovery Atlas: Australia

Nine Inch Nails: Beside You In Time (THD)

Aeon Flux

Sahara

Letters From Iwo Jima (THD)

Flags of Our Fathers

Identity

The Prestige (PCM)

The Marine

Planet Earth

Hellboy (PCM)(European Release)

The Queen (PCM)

Goal: The Dream Begins

Mission: Impossible III (crushed blacks)

Eight Below (PCM)

Kung Fu Hustle (PCM)

World Trade Center

Training Day

ATL

Transporter 2 (MA)

Flyboys (MA)

Casanova

Revenge (PCM)

Ultimate Avengers (7.1 PCM)

The Guardian (PCM)

Into the Blue (PCM)

The Departed (PCM)

The Sentinel

Reign of Fire (PCM)

Fantastic 4 (MA)

The Manchurian Candidate

Phantom of the Opera

Good Night and Good Luck

The Lost City (PCM)

Toto: Live in Amsterdam

The Architect

District B13

Swordfish

The Wicker Man

Invincible (PCM)

Layer Cake (PCM)

The Covenant (PCM)

Deja Vu (PCM)

X-Men: The Last Stand (MA)

The Descent (PCM)(IME) Requires latest firmware

The Pursuit of Happyness (PCM)

Catch & Release (PCM)

Chicago

Dreamgirls

Closer (PCM)

Donnie Brasco (PCM)

Pearl Harbor (PCM)

Scooby Doo

Hart's War

Stranger than Fiction (PCM)

Babel

Flight of the Phoenix (MA)

Monster House (PCM)

Payback

Behind Enemy Lines (MA)

The World's Fastest Indian

Rocky Balboa (PCM)

Saw III

Bubble


TIER 3 -BRONZE-

Few 3D effects, some digital noise/artifacting.


King Arthur (PCM)

The Brothers Grimm (PCM)

Eragon

Ultraviolet (PCM)

Dog Day Afternoon

Black Rain

We Were Soldiers

The Transporter (MA)

A Knight's Tale (PCM)

Courage Under Fire (MA)

The War Within

Memento (PCM)

ENRON: The Smartest Guys In The Room

Chronos

The Road Warrior

Relentless Enemies

Rising Sun

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (PCM)

Stomp the Yard (THD)

Alien Vs. Predator (MA)

Flightplan (PCM)

Haunted Mansion (PCM)

One Last Thing

Night at the Museum (MA)

Stargate

S.W.A.T. (PCM)

Enemy of the State (PCM)

Species (PCM)

Resident Evil: Apocalypse (PCM)(BW)

The Great Raid (PCM)

Space Cowboys

The Last Samurai

Stealth (PCM)

Lord of War

Stir of Echoes

Dinosaur (PCM)

Gone in 60 Seconds (PCM)

House of Wax

Blazing Saddles

Glory Road

Sky Captain (purposefully blurry)

Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Click (PCM)

The Terminator (PCM)

Beerfest

Million Dollar Baby

Unforgiven

Under Siege

Mission Impossible 2

Mission: Impossible

Speed (MA)

The Tailor of Panama (PCM)

50 First Dates (PCM)

Four Brothers

First Blood

Reservoir Dogs

Young Guns

16 Blocks

John Legend: Live at the House of Blues (PCM)

Vertical Limit (PCM)

Rumor Has It

The Holiday (PCM)

Chain Reaction (MA)

The Exorcism of Emily Rose (UK Import)(PCM)

Terminator 2

Superman: The Movie

RV (PCM)

Basic Instinct

Failure to Launch

Superman Returns


TIER 4 -COPPER-

Soft or occasionally artifacted. An overall flat but satisfactory image.


The Black Crowes

The Lake House

Goodfellas

Rocky

The Fountain

Big Fish (PCM)

The Devil Wears Prada

Hoosiers

Hostel (UK Import)(PCM)

Firewall

The Italian Job

Lethal Weapon 2 (bobbed)

Silent Hill (PCM)

Lethal Weapon (bobbed)

Talladega Nights (PCM)

The Devil's Rejects

Basic Instinct 2 (PCM)

The New Orleans Benefit Concert

Tomb Raider

Sky High (PCM)

The Usual Suspects

Crash

Dark Water (PCM)

Finding Neverland (PCM)

Entrapment

Living Landscapes: HD Hawaii

Saw II

American Psycho

Hitch (PCM)

Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut

Saw

Planet of the Apes

Broken Arrow

March of the Penguins

Total Recall

The Punisher

XXX (PCM)

Nacho Libre

Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back

Employee of the Month (PCM)

Sleepy Hollow (digital noise)

Reds


TIER 5 -COAL-

Only slightly better than DVD.Visible artifacting, softness, no 3D effects.


Bullitt

U2: Rattle and Hum

The Dirty Dozen

The Fugitive (bobbed)

Full Metal Jacket (bobbed)

The Fifth Element (PCM)

The House of Flying Daggers (PCM)
 

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just so you know, full metal jacket is currently in your lowest tier. while it doesnt look very good and does belong in that tier, i believe it is only available on HDDVD.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enola /forum/post/0


just so you know, full metal jacket is currently in your lowest tier. while it doesnt look very good and does belong in that tier, i believe it is only available on HDDVD.

you are mistaken
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by foots /forum/post/0


you are mistaken

lol, fair enough. i guess i am.


then maybe let me add to that i believe full metal jacket should remain in tier 5 and not tier 4. i recently picked it up myself, and while i am very pleased with it as the only other copy i have is the one that is part of the kubrick collection, it doesnt look anywhere close to as good as anything in tier 4. (unless this BD version is different than the HDDVD one....)
 

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Apocalypto should be right below Dead Man's Chest. It is a super sharp image and looks amazing. Tier 0 all the way.
 

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I didnt see king arthur anywhere in the list. i though the movie looked pretty damn good, and id say it belongs high tier 2. id also agree with the majority in saying that Apocalypto belongs in tier 0, and id say Identity should be a few higher, and Click should be in tier 3.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by backmeup /forum/post/0


Considering it would be extremely difficult to determine precisely how close or far from the original the reproduction appears, I am happy to have a list that simply lists which discs have the most pristine/crystal clear/3d etc. image possible.

Difficult perhaps ,but worth the effort. A great title is one that has few if any artifacts. Perhaps you are happy and certainly this type of thread has merit but so many gorgeous films are exempt from consideration for PQ because they look like film !
This is misguided, narrow and terribly biased toward things which are or look like video !


Art
 
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