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The New Technology of the GoPro MAX

1076 Views 18 Replies 5 Participants Last post by imagic, May 9, 2020

markr041

Discussion Starter · Oct 27, 2019

The technology of the GoPro MAX - the way in which 360 videos are acquired and compressed - is very different from that in prior 360 cameras. The standard technique is to use conventional compression applied to the spherical frames acquired by each lens. Then these were projected and stitched.

The new technology is not at all just using HEVC rather than H264.This statement by a GoPro software engineer explains in detail with examples of what goes on in the camera now.

https://gopro.com/en/us/news/max-te...tion?cjevent=d886e58bf8d211e9813302a50a24060c

Excerpt: "Previously, we had to encode a round image into a square container, leaving the encoded edges completely unused. With EAC encoding 25 percent less pixels than Fusion, we can achieve a net bitrate increase even though the overall bitrate is less, meaning much smaller file sizes. File sizes get even smaller with one final MAX advantage. With MAX, we are also encoding in HEVC, and 60Mbps in HEVC is equivalent to 90Mbps with H.264."

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markr041

Discussion Starter · #2 · Oct 27, 2019

and a Unique Feature: Power Pano

270-degree panorama with one click - no panning. So no problem with moving subjects, unlike in all the standard panaorama techniques. Automatic horizon level, which for panoramas is critical. Also, stabilization, so can be handheld.

Example:

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imagic

· #3 · Oct 28, 2019 (Edited)

markr041 said:
270-degree panorama with one click - no panning. So no problem with moving subjects, unlike in all the standard panaorama techniques. Automatic horizon level, which for panoramas is critical. Also, stabilization, so can be handheld.

Example:

You have the Max? Nice looking shot. Mine arrives tomorrow. Nice to know GoPro is not wasting bandwidth on unused pixels, good insight.

My understanding is that no EIS camera offers stabilization for still photos, unless you count image-stacking "night mode" The one-shot, automatically level, ready to post pano thing is nice, can't wait to try it, am curious how it'll do vs. rendering a pano from the Theta Z1.

The Hero8 Black has already impressed me with its stabilization (not to mention its snappier interface vs. Hero7 Black) and I am looking forward to trying the Max.

markr041

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 28, 2019

2

More panos: indoors, low light

Tried the panos indoors.

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markr041

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 28, 2019

2

Panos in Sunlight

Sunlight on the Green.

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markr041

Discussion Starter · #6 · Oct 29, 2019

Oh, the MAX Does Shoot 5.6K 360 Video: Test Example

This makes no use of stabilization, as the camera is set one in one place. But you can inspect the video quality. Workflow: GoPro app stitched to Cineform (900 Mbps!) video, ingested in Resolve and injected with 360 metadata after rendering.

Tom Roper

· #7 · Oct 29, 2019

markr041 said:
Tried the panos indoors.

Does it make videos like that or just stills?

Tom Roper

· #8 · Oct 29, 2019

markr041 said:
This makes no use of stabilization, as the camera is set one in one place. But you can inspect the video quality. Workflow: GoPro app stitched to Cineform (900 Mbps!) video, ingested in Resolve and injected with 360 metadata after rendering.

https://youtu.be/aEjoP8nhhok

I don't understand it. If it's 360 degree video than why are people walking out of the frame? I'm thinking I should be seeing them like eyes in the back of my head or something. What's 360 degrees about this?

Tom Roper

· #9 · Oct 29, 2019

Okay, I see now, directional controls in the player. Pretty cool!

Reactions: 1

markr041

Discussion Starter · #10 · Oct 29, 2019

Tom Roper said:
I don't understand it. If it's 360 degree video than why are people walking out of the frame? I'm thinking I should be seeing them like eyes in the back of my head or something. What's 360 degrees about this?

If you are watching on a PC, you use the mouse to move around the video manually - you can follow those people as they walk by moving the cursor with them. You should not be seeing the equirectangular view, but a slice of the 360. Click on 'Youtube' to go to the YouTube site to view the video, not the little one embedded in the post. If viewing on a smart phone (on the YouTube site) , you move the phone to change the view - pan the phone to follow the walkers. If you are viewing on an Oculus Go or other VR headset, you swivel your head to follow the walkers, just like in real life.

I just checked it, works fine, if you go to the link.

The panos are only stills.

Reactions: 2

imagic

· #11 · Oct 29, 2019

markr041 said:
This makes no use of stabilization, as the camera is set one in one place. But you can inspect the video quality. Workflow: GoPro app stitched to Cineform (900 Mbps!) video, ingested in Resolve and injected with 360 metadata after rendering.

https://youtu.be/aEjoP8nhhok

Nice and clean stitch there, comparatively the Fusion tended to have a more obvious seam.

markr041

Discussion Starter · #12 · Oct 30, 2019

Good, Balanced Review of the GoPro MAX

https://gizmodo.com/the-gopro-max-makes-shooting-360-degree-video-dead-simp-1839319088

spyker1212

· #13 · Oct 31, 2019

markr041 said:
https://gizmodo.com/the-gopro-max-makes-shooting-360-degree-video-dead-simp-1839319088

mark,
i am going to get the gopro360max soon. can you use pc to edit? or mac only. tia

markr041

Discussion Starter · #14 · Oct 31, 2019

spyker1212 said:
mark,
i am going to get the gopro360max soon. can you use pc to edit? or mac only. tia

Right now you can only stitch the videos using a GoPro Windows program ("MAX Exporter"). Then you can take the stitched files into any editor. The 360 video I posted consists of clips stitched in the Exporter and then the video was put together in Resolve, then injected (a simple free Windows program) with 360 metadata.

On the GoPro website it says that a Windows program, like that for macs, is coming. That will permit making FullHD those flow stream videos using keyframes. Right now you can do all of that that on any smartphone (stitch and reflow).

Cloudstrewn

· #15 · Nov 9, 2019

The new Kandao QooCam 8K - https://www.kandaovr.com/ - is the first consumer 8K 360 camera, and is being advertised as "Beyond the Max"

Not available yet, but one to keep a (fish)eye on.

imagic

· #16 · Nov 20, 2019

The 1080p video from the MAX often looks better than the Hero8 because the lens is so resistant to flare and ghosting. It's truly an amazing device. And the auto horizon leveling is a dream. I hope future firmware updates add more capabilities.

imagic

· #17 · May 8, 2020 (Edited)

Here's an example of what the Max can do (camera is on a backpack-mounted pole and I am on a scooter)

This version of the clip was recompressed on an iPad in order to add soundtrack:

markr041

Discussion Starter · #18 · May 8, 2020 (Edited)

imagic said:
Here's an example of what the Max can do (camera is on a backpack-mounted pole and I am on a scooter)

https://youtu.be/e9dybucF0_4

You have to be kidding. The quality is awful - I watched at max resolution 1080p. Soft, pixelated (maybe you used too low a bitrate?). For just moving forward, as in your video, the GoPro Hero 8 at 4K is much higher quality, using either the in-camera stabilization or ReelSteady Go. Maybe you did something wrong, as I have seen much better-quality from te MAX, which I also own (so I have no axe to grind). Was this shot in 5.6K? Stitched in 5.6K before the processing?

I took a screen shot (`080 screen), so that everyone can see the mush and lack of detail. Again, I think there was something wrong in the way this was processed as I have seen better MAX video from 360.

Here is a Hero 8 4K video moving forward just like in your video, using ReelSteady Go, where I just walked, not scootered but it is speeded up. Watch in 4K:

Just as smooth, much higher quality in terms of resolution, lack of artifacts, etc.

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imagic

· #19 · May 9, 2020 (Edited)

3

markr041 said:
You have to be kidding. The quality is awful - I watched at max resolution 1080p. Soft, pixelated (maybe you used too low a bitrate?). For just moving forward, as in your video, the GoPro Hero 8 at 4K is much higher quality, using either the in-camera stabilization or ReelSteady Go. Maybe you did something wrong, as I have seen much better-quality from te MAX, which I also own (so I have no axe to grind). Was this shot in 5.6K? Stitched in 5.6K before the processing?

I took a screen shot (`080 screen), so that everyone can see the mush and lack of detail. Again, I think there was something wrong in the way this was processed as I have seen better MAX video from 360.

Here is a Hero 8 4K video moving forward just like in your video, using ReelSteady Go, where I just walked, not scootered but it is speeded up. Watch in 4K:

https://youtu.be/4SpwiVzeHaw

Just as smooth, much higher quality in terms of resolution, lack of artifacts, etc.

Neat software! I did not know about it.

I had posted a reply that was like "it's for Instagram anyhow, I don't care" but your comment made me go back and look at all the elements and yeah, something went wrong. For the first version I posted, something "nasty" must have happened in the iPad, it looks bad.

But that can't be the only issue because not only is the recompressed version with the soundtrack compromised, the original high bitrate 1080/60p file also looks terrible on YouTube. Regardless, I added it to that original post.

Here is what that screenshot you took should look like:

Side-by-side crop:

Regarding youe Hero 8 clip, walking, of course, is not "just as smooth" however you really are very good at walking smoothly. I agree the Hero 8 does not lack in the stabilization dept.

IMO the MAX does offer smoother stabilization when pushed to its limits (it'll keep that horizon level no matter what) but it may be irrelevant for most applications. There is also zero question the Hero 8 4K looks far better than the MAX footage on any sort of large screen, nobody should be surprised by that.

Resolution notwithstanding, the MAX definitely does better than the Hero 8 in tough lighting (light source in frame) without the piece of glass in front of the lens, in terms of not suffering any flare or glare. I spotted some flare in your Hero 8 video example, and constantly had issues with it with my Hero 8 (which I sold). I guess you can take the glass off the Hero8 though, and I imagine the effect is the same. Regardless, the MAX is better than the Hero 8 in this specific regard (lens flare/glare), I've shot enough with both to know this to be true (and it is rather important that a 360 camera has lenses that are resistant to flare, since a light source is always in the picture).

Another screen shot from the original file:

Lastly...

I uploaded the original file to YouTube, which at least shows up as 1080/60p. But it looks absolutely terrible on YouTube! I don't know what's going on here, when played locally the video looks great.

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