[DOMAIN64]

OK, we have heard it before, and I want to set the record straight.


There have been alot of inquiries regarding whether Pioneer will honor their warranty to purchasers of their Kuro displays.


In particular, there has been speculation as to whether they will honor an Elite product if it has been purchased from a "non authorised Elite dealer".


My position is simple. Your warranty is with the manufacturer and not the seller. The law provides no exceptions to designated " authorized dealers". If you purchase a new Pioneer display they have no choice but to honor the warranty in the country it was sold, however, there are limitations.


Canada remains a mystery, both for cost and warranty support. This is plausible because they cannot supply support over a region 1.87 million miles.


In the US, you have statutory and case law to secure your claim. If the product is new and not resold you have warranty rights, express and implied.

EDIT: The warranty specifically points out that the original buyer or subsequent purchaser has all of the warranty rights.


I have never seen a post where Pioneer has denied a claim based on whether it was sold by a authorized dealer or not, so I believe this thread will not produce a valid claim.


Bottom line: Pioneer makes the best Plasma out there and it involves alot of tech that is not perfect.


Buy your display where you believe there is secure customer support.


If you have a unresolved claim post it here, but you have to post the correspondence. We will not accept a claim based on lip service. I will attempt to work through these claims as a last resort from your seller.


Paul

 

[ROMAN O]

You already know my beliefs on this so I am with you. I am willing to help as well if there are any issues

 

[RobertR1]

Thank you Paul for a detalied explanation. I also agree, instead of going by "he said, she said" let's get some real cases in which Pioneer has attempted to null the warranty coverage of a new Pioneer plasma customer. Just because a company has a scare tactic in place, don't mean it's time to bow your head.

 

[fallenbuddha]

I believe I've been vocal about my opinions on the matter as well.


In case people wish to read the actual warranty language from Pioneer for the Elites, here you go:

 

PRO-111FD Warranty_0001.pdf 242.4140625k . file

 

[chadmak09]



Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenbuddha /forum/post/14250149


I believe I've been vocal about my opinions on the matter as well.


In case people wish to read the actual warranty language from Pioneer for the Elites, here you go:

The big question is "who is an authorized Dealer?".

Is it anyone who legally sells pioneer televisions, or does it have to be from the list on thier website?

 

[htwaits]



Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 /forum/post/14250453


The big question is "who is an authorized Dealer?".

Is it anyone who legally sells pioneer televisions, or does it have to be from the list on thier website?

The big fact is that it doesn't matter. Posturing by the manufacturer's customer support staff, or some "authorized" dealers is just a marketing ploy.


After reading AVS RPTV and plasma posts for six years, I don't recall a case where warranty work was denied by a manufacturer due to the "authorized" status of a dealer. Of course, I've only been able to read a sample of the posts during those six years, and, according to my wife, my memory is always suspect.

 

[markrubin]



Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits /forum/post/14252286


The big fact is that it doesn't matter. Posturing by the manufacturer's customer support staff, or some "authorized" dealers is just a marketing ploy.


After reading AVS RPTV and plasma posts for six years, I don't recall a case where warranty work was denied by a manufacturer due to the "authorized" status of a dealer. Of course, I've only been able to read a sample of the posts during those six years, and, according to my wife, my memory is always suspect.

^^


my wife says the same of my memory but I believe you are correct

 

[htwaits]



Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin /forum/post/14252334


^^


my wife says the same of my memory but I believe you are correct

I'll tell her.

 

[DOMAIN64]

A manufacturer can put all langauge they want in their limited warranties, because people will actually believe it and it will reduce claims.


It reminds me of the sign you see in the valet garage: "We are not responsible for any loss or damage to your car. Ahhhhh.....I dont think so.

The law says they are, but they will point to the sign when there is a problem and 80% of the people will walk away. Its very effective.


Paul

 

[omeletpants]

Manufacturers have the right to prevent grey market sales and authorize whoever they want. The theory is tested daily against them and fails

 

[htwaits]



Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants /forum/post/14253599


Manufacturers have the right to prevent grey market sales

A gray market sale, from the prospective of the US market, is a sale that involves an item (TV) that was manufactured for another market in the world. It becomes a "gray market" item when it's brought into the US.


This discussion hasn't involved "gray market" items. Dealers that are not "authorized" by Pioneer are selling sets manufactured for the US market and provided to the dealers by Pioneer distributors.

Quote:
and authorize whoever they want.

Of course they can. It's a marketing label.

Quote:
The theory is tested daily against them and fails

Sorry, I don't know what you are saying.

 

[DOMAIN64]

I believe you are referring to Autos.


Yes, the manufacturer does not have to repair the vehicles because they are made to a different spec in a different country. They often use completely different parts.


As I referred to earlier we are talking about U.S. made and U.S. bought displays.


Paul

 

[RobertR1]

The whole "authorized" system is in place to control pricing. You only sell to "authorized" distributors/shops in the confidence they will not get into a price war (especially e-tailers). If you notice they're trying to low ball and get others into a price war, they can pull their card. Pioneer's model isn't based around mass quantity like others. They're hoping for high margins. Controlling the sales circle is a good way of preserving their margins. As Paul pointed out, it's also a nice scare tactic to the consumer and one that works well. People enjoy being sheep and being told what they can and can't do vs trying to figure out what their rights and limitations actually are.

 

[omeletpants]



Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits /forum/post/14253742


A gray market sale, from the prospective of the US market, is a sale that involves an item (TV) that was manufactured for another market in the world. It becomes a "gray market" item when it's brought into the US.


This discussion hasn't involved "gray market" items. Dealers that are not "authorized" by Pioneer are selling sets manufactured for the US market and provided to the dealers by Pioneer distributors.


Of course they can. It's a marketing label.

Sorry, I don't know what you are saying.

No, grey market refers to any product sold outside it's intended distribution channel. You can change the meaning anyway you want, but the manufacturer's intention is all that matters.

 

[fallenbuddha]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMAIN64 /forum/post/14248980


OK, we have heard it before, and I want to set the record straight.


There have been alot of inquiries regarding whether Pioneer will honor their warranty to purchasers of their Kuro displays.


In particular, there has been speculation as to whether they will honor an Elite product if it has been purchased from a "non authorised Elite dealer".


My position is simple. Your warranty is with the manufacturer and not the seller. The law provides no exceptions to designated " authorized dealers". If you purchase a new Pioneer display they have no choice but to honor the warranty in the country it was sold, however, there are limitations.


Canada remains a mystery, both for cost and warranty support. This is plausible because they cannot supply support over a region 1.87 million miles.


In the US, you have statutory and case law to secure your claim. If the product is new and not resold you have warranty rights, express and implied.


I have never seen a post where Pioneer has denied a claim based on whether it was sold by a authorized dealer or not, so I believe this thread will not produce a valid claim.


Bottom line: Pioneer makes the best Plasma out there and it involves alot of tech that is not perfect.


Buy your display where you believe there is secure customer support.


If you have a unresolved claim post it here, but you have to post the correspondence. We will not accept a claim based on lip service. I will attempt to work through these claims as a last resort from your seller.


Paul

Keep in mind that even if, for the sake of argument, you were to give credence to Pioneer's attempt to limit its warranty to only sets sold by "authorized dealers/distributors," their own language permits passing on the warranty to any subsequent purchaser. So, unless the set was stolen from Pioneer before it was shipped to a distributor/dealer or they wish to make the argument that Pioneer is not an authorized distributor of the product it manufactures, there will always be an authorized distributor in the chain of purchase. Their own warranty language indicates coverage, though there might be squabbling about when the warranty period began to run.

 

[htwaits]



Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants /forum/post/14253858


No, grey market refers to any product sold outside it's intended distribution channel.

At Wikipedia:

Quote:
Refusal to honor warranties


Manufacturers may refuse to honor the warranty of an item purchased from grey-market sources, on the grounds that the higher price on the non-grey market reflects a higher level of service. Alternatively, they may provide the warranty service only from the manufacturer's subsidiary in the intended country of import, not the diverted third country where the grey goods are ultimately sold by the distributor or retailer.


This response to the grey market is especially evident in electronics goods.

Quote:
You can change the meaning anyway you want, but the manufacturer's intention is all that matters.

How does the manufacturer's intention matter if they don't actually deny warranty service based on the dealer's status?


As I posted earlier, I've not encountered any reports at AVS of denied warranty service due to the "authorized" status of a dealer selling displays manufactured for the US market.

 

[DOMAIN64]



Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenbuddha /forum/post/14253859


Keep in mind that even if, for the sake of argument, you were to give credence to Pioneer's attempt to limit its warranty to only sets sold by "authorized dealers/distributors," their own language permits passing on the warranty to any subsequent purchaser. So, unless the set was stolen from Pioneer before it was shipped to a distributor/dealer or they wish to make the argument that Pioneer is not an authorized distributor of the product it manufactures, there will always be an authorized distributor in the chain of purchase. Their own warranty language indicates coverage, though there might be squabbling about when the warranty period began to run.

Great Point Buddha,


If I sell the set to you am I an authorised dealer?

Bsh*t has a way of revealing itself inherently as in there own warranty terms.


Paul

 

[sereeninvision]

Just in case anyone wants to read what Pioneer has to say see below. Life is to busy to add extra battles and it is always good to consider the cost. Best wishes no matter what your choice.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ternet+Dealers

 

[omeletpants]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sereeninvision /forum/post/14254910


Just in case anyone wants to read what Pioneer has to say see below. Life is to busy to add extra battles and it is always good to consider the cost. Best wishes no matter what your choice.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ternet+Dealers

They make their position pretty clear

 

[fallenbuddha]



Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants /forum/post/14254973


They make their position pretty clear

A posted comment on a website, or stated over the phone, does not make it right, legal, or enforceable. Like some of the others, I've yet to read or hear about a circumstance in which Pioneer has refused warranty service for a legitimate defect simply because the set was purchased from a "unauthorized" dealer.