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> i'm looking for ideas for an "indoor mast". i have a 3-way lamp

> but that doest give me enough flexibility height-wise. i'd like

> to get something that is at least 7ft high so i can hang a

> CM2016 nearer the ceiling and out of the way


Assuming an 8 foot ceiling: see if you can find a spring-tension

pole, perhaps as part of a lamp. Probably not a good choice if

the ceiling is suspended. With a suspended ceiling, just hang

it from the grid.


A pole plus a automotive scissors jack. (Be careful to avoid

punching a hole in the ceiling!)


Mount a pole in a Christmas tree stand.


A large plastic tub full of dirt, sand, or rocks would support a pole.

For extra credit plant some flowers or tomatoes.


Those standalone basketball stands, although many will be too large.

Maybe they make a smaller version for little kids?

Maybe they sell standalone tetherball poles? volleyball, badmitten, ...


Pipe: get some threaded steel plumbing pipe and some tees.

You could make a shiny version using copper. Would PVC be

strong enough?


Build something out of 2x4s


concrete pier support with bracket for mounting a 4x4

(hide the ugliness with a Christmas tree skirt type cloth)


patio umbrella stand


camera tripod


Put a cabinet/dresser/shelves there and fasten pole to the back

of it.


Put a tall bookcase there and set antenna on it.


They sell hooks for holding hanging plants. Leave the hook

when you move, or fill hole with spackle and then paint it.

(assuming plaster or sheetrock ceiling)
 

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326 pages in this forum is a lot to go through. I cant tell if I need two antennas or can do just one? We currently have a set top indoor antenna and want to upgrade to an outdoor roof mounted one. Living in the Los Angeles area, we have experienced the same thing others have where we lost channels 7-13. Any suggestions for a one antenna solution that will get 7-13 well as other stations? Here is my info from TV Fool:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...618ab3c4be902a
 

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Before I mounted my CM4228, I had a temp mounting of a broom handle in a patio umbrella stand, it worked very nicely.
 

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Microphone stands
 

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thank you all for the suggestions! as of now, i'm more inclined to get a strong and stretchable curtain rod. btw, i just ordered the CM2016 and the HDP-269 amp. this amp was recommended by holl_ands as a way to avoid overload of my CM-7000 converter. i have a 37" Olevia LCD too so i'll split in 2 the signal received by the antenna.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland /forum/post/16739358


Really. Can you provide some scientific data to backup such a statement. I am not interested in they said, he said statements.

Just anectodal and from my experience. No offense meant.


The PR9032 doesn't perform as well as it should based on its published gain specs for uhf and neither does the 8200p for vhf.
 

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Here's my TVFool.com info (sorry the link doesn't work -- new member and therefore no URLs allowed):


Paste the string to the end of www . tvfool . com


/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d618ac14ba8610a


I am mainly interested in the (closer and higher-power) ATSC/DTV stations that are at 180-185 degrees. All are UHF except for Fox which is at 7. Most are ~15 miles away.


This will be installed in the attic, with about a 100 foot run (RG6) to a 4-way splitter. I was looking at the Winegard AP-8700 pre-amp. (apparently the CM 7777 is really popular, too. Any preferences???)


For the antenna, I was considering the ANT751/EZ-HD, the 7694P, maybe the CM 2016, or even the UP-7 from Denny's. The EZ-HD looks nice due to its small size, but the 7694 seems to be really popular. EDIT: Also maybe the AntennaCraft HBU22???


I currently have the SS-3000 inside (not in the attic) and it works pretty well except for a couple of channels occasionally dropping out. But, I would like a more consistent signal on all channels and I'm willing to pay for it.


Also, does anybody know if you need to lightning ground the antenna if it's in the attic? Do you have to go all out crazy or can you just ground it to something grounded in the attic just to dissipate static buildup?


Thanks in advance!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat /forum/post/16741100


Just anectodal and from my experience. No offense meant.

None taken!

Quote:
The PR9032 doesn't perform as well as it should based on its published gain specs for uhf and neither does the 8200p for vhf.

Click here for antenna test done by Bob Chase. Please note the last two pages cover the UHF band. Also note there is not that much difference between antennas of similar design. Bob did not test the Winegard PR-9032 but he did test the Channel Master 4248. It was one of the best UHF models, the PR-9032 is of similar design and should meet or exceed the 4248 in performance. Some people were having trouble because they did not read the instructions for the PR-9032 and were making down-lead connections to the VHF “pass-thru” connection point (some did this to the CM-4248).


Click here for my install and flow chart.
 

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First, I want to thank Escape Velocity, Systems2000, Digital Rules, and Tower Guy for addressing my reception problem. I already was concerned with Digital Rules' issue about my having too much gain. I assume that I can calculate the signal strength, so I shall do that now for the two stations which concern me most: WLIW Channel 21, 20 miles at 239 degrees (my strongest station), and WNJN Channel 51, 55 miles at 266 degrees. My CM 4248 28 element Yagi has a UHF gain of 10.8 dB. The 7777 preamp has a UHF gain of 26 dB, with a noise figure of 2.0 dB; UHF output capacity is 51 dBmV.


I don't exactly know what to do with those numbers, but if I add the two gains together (10.8 + 26 = 38.8), and add them to the PWR figure for the two stations, I get -10.1 dB for channel 21 and -31.9 dB for channel 51, which both seem awfully low. The antenna gains are relative to a reference dipole, but how much signal voltage does a power of -48.9 dB generate in such a reference dipole? Is 21.8 dB too great a difference to pick up both stations without overloading? Is the overload problem a function of the strongest station, even if I am tuned to a different station? If we are talking about preamp overload, then I assume the answer is yes, because the preamp is untuned. If it is the TV tuner's overload, then I don't know; probably still yes, because I don't think the input stage of the ATSC tuner is tuned.


When I put up my original-but-now-defunct Radio Shack antenna on my roof in 1990, I could get both 21 and 50 (analog, of course). Just prior to 6/12, I could get analog 50 (weakly) with my attic-mounted 4248.


A problem with Escape Velocity's suggestion to pick up the CT stations off the back because both directions have channel 31 (WTIC at NM of 19.9, and WPXN at NM of 16.1).


The table below lists all the stations I should receive, based on TVfool (info except quality from TVfool).


Call chnl virtual NM(dB) Pwr Azimuth Quality Antenna

"GREEN"

WFTY-DT 23 (67.X) 67.1 -28.2 105 POOR unamplified Silver Sensor pointing @~20 degrees

WSAH-DT 42 (43.X) 50.0 -40.8 3 POOR unamplified Silver Sensor pointing @~20 degrees

WLNY-DT 47 (55?) 48.9 -41.9 100 POOR unamplified Silver Sensor pointing @~20 degrees

WLIW-DT 21 (21.X) 41.9 -48.9 239 GOOD either (or both)

WCTX-DT 39 (59.X) 39.9 -50.9 16 POOR unamplified Silver Sensor pointing @~20 degrees

WTNH-DT 10 (8.X) 38.4 -52.5 16 FAIR unamplified Silver Sensor pointing @~20 degrees (should try a VHF antenna here)

WEDW-DT 49 (49.X) 37.2 -53.6 355 GOOD unamplified Silver Sensor pointing @~20 degrees


"YELLOW"

WABC-DT 7 (7.X) 27.1 -63.7 254 GOOD amplified channel 13 dipole pointing @~220 degrees

WEDY-DT 6 (65.X) 25.8 -65.0 24 NONE neither

WNJU-DT 36 (47.X) 25.7 -65.1 254 POOR amplified CM4248 pointing @~220 degrees

WVIT-DT 35 (30.X) 25.5 -65.3 17 POOR unamplified Silver Sensor pointing @ ~20 degrees

WTXX-DT 20 (61.x?) 25.0 -65.9 17 POOR unamplified Silver Sensor pointing @ ~20 degrees

WNJB-DT 8 (58.1) 23.8 -67.0 255 NONE neither

WNET-DT 13 (13.X) 23.7 -67.1 254 GOOD amplified channel 13 dipole pointing @~220 degrees

WPIX-DT 11 (11.X) 23.6 -67.3 254 VERY POOR OR NONE

WNYW-DT 44 (5.X) 23.1 -67.7 254 NONE neither

WKOB-LP 2 (42.1) 21.7 -69.1 254 NONE neither

WCBS-DT 33 (2.X) 21.2 -69.7 254 NONE (got it once before 6/12)

WMBC-DT 18 (63.1) 20.7 -70.2 266 NONE neither

WNBC-DT 28 (4.X) 20.3 -70.5 254 NONE neither

WXTV-DT 40 (41.X) 20.2 -70.6 254 FAIR amplified CM4248 pointing @~220 degrees

WTIC-DT 31 (61.X) 19.9 -70.9 17 POOR unamplified Silver Sensor pointing @ ~20 degrees

WEDH-DT 45 (24.X?) 18.9 -71.9 17 VERY POOR unamplified Silver Sensor pointing @ ~20 degrees

WWOR-DT 38 (9.X) 18.3 -72.6 254 NONE neither

WNYE-DT 24 (25.1) 18.2 -72.7 255 POOR amplified CM4248 pointing @~220 degrees

WTBY-DT 27 (54.X) 17.9 -72.9 313 GOOD amplified CM4248 pointing @~220 degrees

WFUT-DT 30 (68.x) 16.7 -74.2 254 VERY POOR amplified CM4248 pointing @~220 degrees

WFSB-DT 33 (3.X) 16.4 -74.4 17 NONE neither

WPXN-DT 31 (31.X) 16.1 -74.7 254 NONE neither

WRNN-DT 48 (48.X?) 12.9 -77.9 313 NONE neither

WNJN-DT 51 (50.X) 12.9 -77.9 266 NONE (used to get analog)


Nothing weaker than this.


Sorry this table is poorly formatted - I used Notepad with tabs to create it. It does, however, bring up a few questions:

According to TVfool FAQs, all of these noise margins are plenty high to get all the signals umamplified, but I don't.

Why do I get a good signal on WEDW-49 and not on WSAH-42? Both are to the north, LOS, and WSAH is stronger!

WNET-13 and WPIX-11 are almost adjacent channels and both on the Empire State Building (I think), but I usually can't get 11.


I am using a CM selector switch to connect the two antenna systems. I tried a passive splitter as a combiner, but most stations disappeared, although, if I scanned my tuner with this setup, both sets of stations appeared!


The cable between the Silver Sensor and the switch is a new RG6, about 20 feet long. THe cable between the 7777 and the switch is an old RG59 inside the wall, and is also about 20 feet long - should I replace it?


All this stuff is in my 3rd floor attic, including all antennas, the Samsung TV, a Panasonic ATSC DVD recorder, and a CM7000 converter box. In addition, I have a 30 foot RG59 going to my second floor computer room, to an ATI tuner card. I also have an RG50 cable running underground to an apartment in my garage, probably 150 feet long. All the extra cables are not now being used, but that is why I had the amplified RS splitter.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Guy /forum/post/16740002


Yes.


I think that trying to receive red color stations with a bidirectional antenna won't work.

What is the gain figure on the Gray Hoverman without a reflector?


I understand the difficulty. The point is to try to get as deep into yellow as possible from both directions....to maximize the number of channels and stabilize them.



Any other suggestions for MTVike? Should he do an A/B setup or forget one direction?
 

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Welcome to the forum Dieter.


Here is your tvfool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...618ac14ba8610a


The CM7777 is too much for your strong signals. The 8700 might be too much, maybe just the HDP269 to make up for coax and splitter loss. The loss caused by an attic vs outside is difficult to predict.
Quote:
Also, does anybody know if you need to lightning ground the antenna if it's in the attic? Do you have to go all out crazy or can you just ground it to something grounded in the attic just to dissipate static buildup?

Here is a thread about grounding an attic antenna:
Need to Ground an Attic Antenna? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1016115


I'll leave it to the big guns to give you further advice.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieterW /forum/post/16741502



I currently have the SS-3000 inside (not in the attic) and it works pretty well except for a couple of channels occasionally dropping out. But, I would like a more consistent signal on all channels and I'm willing to pay for it.

with the SS-3000, which channels are unstable and which ones you can not receive at all?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike /forum/post/16741704


Why do I get a good signal on WEDW-49 and not on WSAH-42? Both are to the north, LOS, and WSAH is stronger!

WNET-13 and WPIX-11 are almost adjacent channels and both on the Empire State Building (I think), but I usually can't get 11.

I've been finding that how we think about signal strength for DTV is not the same as it was for NTSC. Many OTA viewers are finding that high signal strength isn't giving them reception. Try placing different size anttenuators in your cable line.


I've found that, depending upon where you place the attenuator, it makes a marked difference on DTV capabilities. I'm using a CM0265DSB pre-amp and a 25dB DA with splitters throughout the house distribution system. I have attenuators before the DA, before splitters, and after splitters.


It's an on-going experiment to find the right balance.
 

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Quote:
No, still @ 5kw. They haven't applied for a power increase AFAIK.

Jeez, heh. I guess they just dont want the business.


On another note, Im now getting WPVI channel 6, after they quadrupled power, with my garage antenna, currently my foldable reflector-less single bay GH version. (when folded, it fits easily in my pocket, heh) Modeling shows 1.88 dBi raw gain with a 48.9 SWR on channel 6 with that uhf only antenna, heh. Net Gain, of course, is far far into the negative numbers. There are drop outs though, but its still oddly fairly consistant.
 

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Whoa! Just went to TVFool and used their new app which shows topography. When I enter my street addy they have me deep in the valley when I'm actually on top of the highest hill around.


Result is I go from 2 edge to 40db nm!


Think I'll toodle on down to Ratshack and pick up something returnable to take a gander at OTA!


jtm
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Rules /forum/post/16741251


Do you feel the 91-XG is substantially better?


Thanks!!

I've never had an xg91. I can tell you that from my experience the Televes DAT75 is easily better up and down the uhf band as is the CM4228 (both compared to the pr9032).


The published specs on the pr9032 claim comparable gain to the Triax Unix 100A (a band-specific antenna for uhf 14-38) for channels 14 and 32. I own and have extensively tested both and can confidently say they aren't even close.

http://www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/Pr-9032.pdf
http://www.njal.no/Doc/Triax%20produ...100element.pdf


For the 100A gain chart, the trace at the left is for the A band model. Channel 21 on the graph is equivalent to channel 14 in the US.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity /forum/post/16741728


What is the gain figure on the Gray Hoverman without a reflector?


I understand the difficulty. The point is to try to get as deep into yellow as possible from both directions....to maximize the number of channels and stabilize them.



Any other suggestions for MTVike? Should he do an A/B setup or forget one direction?

My suggestion for MTVike is to establish a reception baseline with a single antenna aimed in one direction at a time with no preamp to verify signal strength and antenna location. Next I'd add a low gain preamp to make sure that doesn't overload. Check stations in all directions. Once its known what can be received and what can't then its time to try tricks to combine two antennas.


In most cases red zone antenna combining must be done with filters such as Jointennas, UVSJs, and HLSJs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordloewelabs /forum/post/16741945


with the SS-3000, which channels are unstable and which ones you can not receive at all?

Real/Virtual channels:

21/36, 33/24, 43/42 all come in perfect 99.9% of the time only notice a skip every few days.


22/18 is good most of the time; notice maybe a skip or two each day.


7/7 is good on some days, and others (seemingly same weather) have severe dropouts.


49/54 is pretty bad most days, with a skip every 10 seconds or so.


The SS-3000 is indoors about 7' up, with it pointing towards the towers, but passing "through" the house next door (Line Of Site points through the next door neighbor's home). I plan on putting the new antenna in the attic at the west-most end of my house, so it should hopefully almost have direct LOS to the towers, at least close-by (there are homes in the way at the end of the street). I have a 1-story home, and I estimate the antenna will be about 12 feet over ground level.


Thanks for the great links to lightning protection. I haven't visited this forum much, and it's very active, so searches had not helped me much (and the 300++pages on a lot of the discussions is a bit overwhelming!).


Oh, and the SS-3000 is VERY sensitive to position in my case; moving/rotating it 1/4" can totally change everything. This was the best I could manage.


Roof is composite/fiberglass shingles. No reflective foil/insulation.


Thanks again!
 

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Sound advice.


Good Luck MTVmike!
 
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