[thagatman]

I am interested in getting HDTV to my house and need to understand what my options are. I am currently a dishnet customer and have looked at their website and see they do offer some channels in HD. It also says you will need some additional hardware in addition to the sattelite I already have.


I'm really interested in getting the local channels that are broadcast over the air and perhaps the dishnet package as well, I'm not sure yet.


After some research I have discoverd there any many different types of antenna's (indoor/outdoor - multidirectional/bidirectional and then a size) and I don't really know what I will need. In addition, I don't know how the reception is where I am located......


My address is:

32621 36th Ave. SW

Federal Way, WA 98023


If anyone has information I would be very greatful.


Thanks -

Glen (thegatman)

 

[Delerium]

I am hoping some of you with your infinite knowledge can shed some light on my situation. I have been searching for a roof-top antenna to help bring in the following channels...


red - uhf KFXP 31 FOX POCATELLO ID 30° 5.5 31

red - vhf KPVI 6 NBC POCATELLO ID 30° 5.5 6

* red - uhf KPVI-DT 23.1 NBC POCATELLO ID 30° 5.5 23

blue - uhf K15DG 15 TBN POCATELLO ID 206° 5.0 15

blue - vhf K12OA 12 NBC POCATELLO ID 205° 1.4 12

blue - uhf K61FO 61 ABC POCATELLO ID 167° 2.5 61

violet - vhf KIDK 3 CBS IDAHO FALLS ID 330° 45.4 3

violet - vhf KIFI 8 ABC IDAHO FALLS ID 331° 45.5 8

violet - vhf KISU 10 PBS POCATELLO ID 330° 45.6 10


After doing some research, I found that Channel Master, Winegard, and Antennas Direct are all companies that have quality products but I can't seem to make a decision on a specific model. I need a VHF/UHF antenna and would appreciate any advice you may have to help my decision making process a little easier.


Thanks, in advance, for your help.

 

[bobchase]



Quote:
Originally posted by thagatman
I....I'm really interested in getting the local channels that are broadcast over the air and perhaps ....Glen (thegatman)

Glen,


Copy & paste the link below to see the HDTV stations near you

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/defaul...=Show+Stations


Call KPCQ and ask for the Engineering Dept. They are a bunch of good guys at that station. That part of the country has too many hills, ridges, and mountains to get a valid answer on the web. At best, folks would be guessing.


The guys at KCPQ should have an idea if you can get either of the Tribune stations (Fox & WB) and are probably willing to share what you can or cannot expect to get from the rest of the nets.


Bob Chase

KHWB, Houston, TX

 

[Brian J]



Quote:
Originally posted by jimc705
All the channels are very close together and a join tenna to notch specfic frequencies is very expensive. I'm not sure but I don't think you can notch adjacent channels like 34 and 35. Probably can with enough money.

If you don't want a rotor the easiest way to do this is to make a seperate RG6 run from the second antenna and get an A/B switch. You than simply switch between the antennas when you want to watch FOX and WB. Radio Shack has both manual and remote controled A/B switches. The remote one is about $30 the manual about $3 at most places.


Make sure you don't mount one antenna in front of the other. Try if possible to have their backs side facing each other for max. F/B ratio.

Thanks jimc705,


Running the second coax is no problem since I wired my theater with plenty of extra RG6 to an accesable location. The problem is that I'm using a myHD card for recording and I'm not sure how to incorporate an A/B switch or rotor into the scheduled recordings. There might be someone in the HTPC forum who has figured this out.


Brian J

 

[jimc705]



Quote:
Originally posted by Delerium
I am hoping some of you with your infinite knowledge can shed some light on my situation. I have been searching for a roof-top antenna to help bring in the following channels...


red - uhf KFXP 31 FOX POCATELLO ID 30° 5.5 31

red - vhf KPVI 6 NBC POCATELLO ID 30° 5.5 6

* red - uhf KPVI-DT 23.1 NBC POCATELLO ID 30° 5.5 23

blue - uhf K15DG 15 TBN POCATELLO ID 206° 5.0 15

blue - vhf K12OA 12 NBC POCATELLO ID 205° 1.4 12

blue - uhf K61FO 61 ABC POCATELLO ID 167° 2.5 61

violet - vhf KIDK 3 CBS IDAHO FALLS ID 330° 45.4 3

violet - vhf KIFI 8 ABC IDAHO FALLS ID 331° 45.5 8

violet - vhf KISU 10 PBS POCATELLO ID 330° 45.6 10


After doing some research, I found that Channel Master, Winegard, and Antennas Direct are all companies that have quality products but I can't seem to make a decision on a specific model. I need a VHF/UHF antenna and would appreciate any advice you may have to help my decision making process a little easier.


Thanks, in advance, for your help.

Looks like you in pretty good shape. Most of these are analog channels except one. Have you no interest in the digital equals ofthese channels?


At any rate you'll need a rotor Cm 9521a is a good one. If you are just looking for the analogs any half descent combo will pick up 45 miles fairly easy as long as the terrain alows. Winegard HD 7082 or 7084 Channel Master 3679 or 3678. Antannas direct doesn't have any good long range combo's. I would not use an amp being just 5 miles from the closest station you may have overload. If you find you need an amp you have to get one with a high input signal.


Now if you want the digital equals.

KIDK digital is on UHF channel 36

check and see if you are in their low power coverage area here.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DS596687.html

KIFI digital is VHF 9
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DS674193.html

KISU is at full power UHF channel 17
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT623134.html


Since you are close to pocatello looks like you should get KIFI DT 9 and KISU DT17 now and when KIDK DT36 goes full power you should get it. I'd go with seperates for UHF and VHF. I'd get a 91xg Antennas Direct for the UHF's and a high band yagi for VHF the only low band that leaves is 3 and you are close enough you should get that on either antenna. Links are below to take a look. The 91xg will definetly get the low powered UHF digitals and a 10 element high band should do the rest. You also need a UHF / VHF joiner #CM 0549.

You could also use the combo 3678 or 3671 CM antennas or the Winegard hd7084 or hd8200. These are the biggest and best combos. They will not do quit as well as seperates but are an easier install. If you have no mountain or terrain problems they should work as well.

http://www.starkelectronic.com/allant.htm
http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmjoiner.htm
http://www.antennasdirect.com/LongRangeAntennas.htm

 

[jimc705]



Quote:
Originally posted by thagatman
I am interested in getting HDTV to my house and need to understand what my options are. I am currently a dishnet customer and have looked at their website and see they do offer some channels in HD. It also says you will need some additional hardware in addition to the sattelite I already have.


I'm really interested in getting the local channels that are broadcast over the air and perhaps the dishnet package as well, I'm not sure yet.


After some research I have discoverd there any many different types of antenna's (indoor/outdoor - multidirectional/bidirectional and then a size) and I don't really know what I will need. In addition, I don't know how the reception is where I am located......


My address is:

32621 36th Ave. SW

Federal Way, WA 98023


If anyone has information I would be very greatful.


Thanks -

Glen (thegatman)

You are less then 30 miles from many digital stations. If you have a direct line of sight you can get by with a fairly small UHF for all your digitals are UHF. If you are at a base of a mountain that's between you and Seattle or Tacoma it's going to be more difficult. Direct line of sight a CM 4221 or Antennas Direct DB4 should do the trick. If at bottom of mountain then well need more particulars or takes Bob's advice and call your local station.


You'll need a Dish receiver either 811 or 921 which both have built in ATSC digital tuner for OTA reception. You'll also need a rotor CM 9521a to get all the stations on your list. Look at these links.

http://www.solidsignal.com/search_re...arch_crit=4221

http://www.antennasdirect.com/MediumRangeAntennas.htm

http://www.solidsignal.com/search_re...1.x=14&I1.y=12

 

[Delerium]

jimc705,


Thanks for your response. I would like to get as many of the digital channels as possible; I was only aware of the one NBC and didn't realize there were others available in my area. I went to antennaweb.org and typed in my zip code (83201) and copy/pasted the lineup in my post. There was no mention of any other digital stations, except the one.


I am willing to use separates if the results are better than using a combo VHF/UHF antenna (and if it is not much more difficult to install). I do like the 91xg for UHF but what would you recommend for VHF. Do you have any experience/preferences with any of the models you mentioned? I apologize for all the newbie questions but I just want to make sure I do this right the first time so I don't have to do it again.


Thanks again for all your help.

 

[CZ Eddie]

Antennaweb.org says I need a "large directional with preamp" for my area. Could someone suggest something or point me to a page # on this [long] thread with suggestions?


Thanks!

 

[Rack]

 http://www.starkelectronic.com/del937.htm
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...=&PROD=ANC7777

 

[CZ Eddie]

Thanks, Rack. Bookmarked!


That one antenna is 16' long :lol:

 

[ElVee]

Well, I've ordered the Channel Master CM3671 and CM9521A rotator. They should be here tomorrow.


Now of course, I'm starting to think that I may have an issue with using this antenna and rotator together. According to the Channel Master description of the CM3671, the antenna height is 35.4", length is 173" and width is 110".


Is this too big for the CM9521A rotator to support?

 

[sregener]



Quote:
Originally posted by Delerium
I am willing to use separates if the results are better than using a combo VHF/UHF antenna (and if it is not much more difficult to install). I do like the 91xg for UHF but what would you recommend for VHF.

If you're going to use a rotor, you'll need a ball-bearing mount (Stark Electronics has one) to support the weight of both a large VHF and a large UHF antenna. The problem is that they need to be a few feet apart, and the further from the rotor you get, the higher the torque from wind.


Personally, I'd recommend the Winegard 7084P for your purposes. It's a solid UHF and VHF performer for up to 60 miles. The 91XG is a great antenna, but is probably more than you need.

 

[ElVee]



Quote:
Originally posted by sregener
If you're going to use a rotor, you'll need a ball-bearing mount (Stark Electronics has one) to support the weight of both a large VHF and a large UHF antenna. The problem is that they need to be a few feet apart, and the further from the rotor you get, the higher the torque from wind.

And if they're too close together - say a foot or less?

 

[daoust501]



Quote:
Originally posted by daoust501
I'm going to go with option A. I'll upgrade to the DB8 and see what I see. Will post back to let you know if it makes a difference. Thanks to all for the help.

The DB8 was no better in my situation. What DOES work in my attic is a Silver Sensor attached to a CM7775 pre amp. Getting solid reception from FOX, which is all I'm after for now! Thanks to all.

 

[sregener]



Quote:
Originally posted by ElVee
And if they're too close together - say a foot or less?

Then they have the opportunity to interact with each other. Much as we'd prefer that antennas be perfectly benign when placed near other objects, they bend signals. (In fact, this is what "gain" is.) That bending can work in our favor or against it. If you place two antennas too close together (and this varies by wavelength,) the end result is almost always worse than better. You can end up with multipath, or a weaker signal. I'd say 3' is a minimum.

 

[ElVee]



Quote:
Originally posted by sregener
Then they have the opportunity to interact with each other. Much as we'd prefer that antennas be perfectly benign when placed near other objects, they bend signals. (In fact, this is what "gain" is.) That bending can work in our favor or against it. If you place two antennas too close together (and this varies by wavelength,) the end result is almost always worse than better. You can end up with multipath, or a weaker signal. I'd say 3' is a minimum.

I really appreciate all the help.


I'm not sure I understand. Are you talking about mounting a VHF and a UHF antenna too close together? I don't think that's what I'm trying to do (unless the CM3671 is really two separate antennae).


I'm talking about mounting a CM-3671 UHF/VHF antenna with an CM9521A rotator and a ball-bearing mount between the two - to hold the antenna more securely. I meant the distance between the roator and the ball-bearing mount. Does that need to be 3' or can it be less? I currently have a small J arm mounted to my chimney specifically for the anytenna. (My Phase III dish is mounted with it's own J arm). If so, I'd need to get a longer J arm.

 

[jimc705]



Quote:
Originally posted by Delerium
jimc705,


Thanks for your response. I would like to get as many of the digital channels as possible; I was only aware of the one NBC and didn't realize there were others available in my area. I went to antennaweb.org and typed in my zip code (83201) and copy/pasted the lineup in my post. There was no mention of any other digital stations, except the one.


I am willing to use separates if the results are better than using a combo VHF/UHF antenna (and if it is not much more difficult to install). I do like the 91xg for UHF but what would you recommend for VHF. Do you have any experience/preferences with any of the models you mentioned? I apologize for all the newbie questions but I just want to make sure I do this right the first time so I don't have to do it again.


Thanks again for all your help.

Antennaweb.org is a good place to start but they are extremely conservative as to what you actually will get. If you are in the coverage areas I sent you and no huge mountains to get over you should get the additional digitals. In my case they show to Digitals one 17 miles the other about 28 miles. I actually get 5 digitals as far as 60 to 70 miles. I get another 7 from Knoxville 40 to 50 miles. One from NC about 60 miles. All reliable and no drops. I do have a few mountains to get over but most are straight up the valley.


You can use a 10 element high band. You can get them and see a pix of them at Starke Electronic. They run about $30 I believe.
http://www.starkelectronic.com/acantena.htm#Y10


This weighs only about 4 lbs. and the UHF weighs in at 6.5 lbs.

Ideally they should be mounted seprately but can be mounted on the same mast. Channel Master recommends 7 feet apart for the antennas not to interact with each other. 5 feet apart will be min. Put the biggest and heavier toward the bottom. which is almost a toss up here.

Channel 3 is a low band but you are but 5 miles from it and should receive it with no problem. You will need a join teanna 0549 from Starke or others on the web or locally. Solid signal is a little cheaper and have experts to help you with mounting etc.


Cost should put you around the $200 mark with a rotor.


You may find this sight useful for terms and info and the CM sight for mounting.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/AntInstallGuide.pdf


Pix of the 7084 if you decide to go with a signal combo.
http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/hd7084p.pdf


The difference between the combo and seperates is mainly multipath resistance. Combo beamwidth is about 40 degrees at UHF frequencies as you can see. The UHF yagi is as low as 20 degress. A slight better gain then a combo but comparing the best CM UHF 4228 with the 7084

winegard at the channels you want 17 and 36.

4228 gain channel 17 about 11.5 DB

4228 gain channel 36 about 12 DB

HD 7084 gain ch 17 about 13 DB

hd 7084 gain ch 36 about 12 db


So as you can see the 7084 actually exceeds the 4228 in this case. The 91xg is a little better db gain but they don't give channel breakdown gain.

The 7084 can be purchased for around $120 .
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...=&PROD=SHD7084

You also may have a local Winegard dealer .


The choice is yours either antenna will perform well for what you need. The combo also will get 3 and 6 better then the seperates although I don't see that as a problem for analog. My UHF gets channel 5and 11 60 miles out off the back side.


Good Luck with your quest.

 

[jimc705]



Quote:
Originally posted by ElVee
I really appreciate all the help.


I'm not sure I understand. Are you talking about mounting a VHF and a UHF antenna too close together? I don't think that's what I'm trying to do (unless the CM3671 is really two separate antennae).


I'm talking about mounting a CM-3671 UHF/VHF antenna with an CM9521A rotator and a ball-bearing mount between the two - to hold the antenna more securely. I meant the distance between the roator and the ball-bearing mount. Does that need to be 3' or can it be less? I currently have a small J arm mounted to my chimney specifically for the anytenna. (My Phase III dish is mounted with it's own J arm). If so, I'd need to get a longer J arm.

No only mounting to antennas close together. The ball bearing you have can be mounted and should be mounted much closer.

scrool to alignment bearing.
http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/AntInstallGuide.pdf


The 3671 is a combo both UHF and VHF but does not apply.

 

[ElVee]



Quote:
Originally posted by jimc705
No only mounting to antennas close together. The ball bearing you have can be mounted and should be mounted much closer.

scrool to alignment bearing.
http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/AntInstallGuide.pdf


The 3671 is a combo both UHF and VHF but does not apply.

Great. Thanks so much to all who've helped.

 

[imott]

I am putting up a 30' ground mounted mast on which I will mount my CM4221. I am using 18' of 2" thick wall(1/8" thick) and 12' of 2" thin wall(058). I can mount the CM4221 to the top of the mast using U-bolts. However, I would like to maximize the potential height and mount the CM4221 into the top of the mast. The CM4221 has a swaged base that will fit into a 1 1/4" mast. I am looking for a recommendation on how I might reduce my 2" mast in order to receive the 1 1/4" base of my CM4221.

Thanks!

i