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@TelevesTech Stay tuned, I do have intentions of trying a Televes 560383 single-input model.
Just one more thing, I have a very strong RF28 seven miles from my home. What is impressive about the Televes preamps to me was they pulled in RF29 about 60 miles away in the same direction 50% of the time when the Juice couldn’t at all. I’m assuming it’s the AGC feature and/or lower NF but that’s just a guess.
 

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I had a DB8e and the Juice on a 50’ tower and thought they were great. I don’t have the equipment to test NF but constantly but watch the SNR over a period of weeks when watching TV. I tried the dual and got better results than the Juice but once I learned the 560483 wasn’t as good as the single-input because of some filtering I tried the 560383 and it was better than both the Juice and the 560483. I like testing antennas so I tried the DAT BOSS LR and it smoked all of the above. I’m assuming the DAT is a better antenna in my situation and the built in preamp is similar technology to the new stand alone preamps other the the LTE filter but not sure. It works well for me and fringe markets. I wanted to replace the combiner on the DB8e with the 560483 with panels in different directions but never got around to it. I would also like to try the Kitz sometime. Some posters swear by them. Good luck with your results!
Actually, the 560483 is every bit as good as the 560383 as far as amplification, filtering, regulation, and noise figure goes, the difference is there is a two way broadband combiner at the input of the 560483 to allow for the combination of two overlapping band antennas when the application calls for it, w/o needing any external combiners. That will reduce the C/N when compared to a one input amplifier without a combiner, but it's a good solution for many situations, a prime example being a swinging 8 bowtie antenna, or two different antennas aimed at different markets, when the lineup is such that allows for such a combination. Actually the 560483 filters the VHF contribution of each antenna and sums it, hitting one individual VHF AGC preamp, and does the same with the UHF contribution of the two inputs, they are summed and hit an independent UHF AGC preamp, then everything is summed in the output. It also provides input attenuators to balance the incoming signals in the best way possible when the application calls for it.

I am aware of many users swapping the combiners in DB8e antennas by this dual input preamp with great success. Now, if the situation is fringe, then a better solution is to amplify any antennas individually and combine after, once the NF of the system has been established. Of course if one is amplifying just one feed, then there's no point in using that dual amplifier and one is better off using a single input preamp to avoid that combination loss.
 

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Of course if one is amplifying just one feed, then there's no point in using that dual amplifier and one is better off using a single input preamp to avoid that combination loss.
At the time I bought the 560483, it was the only one that had just come in stock. I couldn't find any available other models. I didn't think there would be that much difference between the two models, so didn't want to wait until the single one came into stock. Then we got all sorts of snow constantly, and I couldn't install it until February anyway, lol.
 

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Actually, the 560483 is every bit as good as the 560383 as far as amplification, filtering, regulation, and noise figure goes, the difference is there is a two way broadband combiner at the input of the 560483 to allow for the combination of two overlapping band antennas when the application calls for it, w/o needing any external combiners. That will reduce the C/N when compared to a one input amplifier without a combiner, but it's a good solution for many situations, a prime example being a swinging 8 bowtie antenna, or two different antennas aimed at different markets, when the lineup is such that allows for such a combination. Actually the 560483 filters the VHF contribution of each antenna and sums it, hitting one individual VHF AGC preamp, and does the same with the UHF contribution of the two inputs, they are summed and hit an independent UHF AGC preamp, then everything is summed in the output. It also provides input attenuators to balance the incoming signals in the best way possible when the application calls for it.

I am aware of many users swapping the combiners in DB8e antennas by this dual input preamp with great success. Now, if the situation is fringe, then a better solution is to amplify any antennas individually and combine after, once the NF of the system has been established. Of course if one is amplifying just one feed, then there's no point in using that dual amplifier and one is better off using a single input preamp to avoid that combination loss.
Thank you for the detailed clarification. I’ve had stellar results with the Televes preamps including the intergraded preamp of the DAT BOSS LR. I like the directivity of this antenna. On many mornings and nights I can receive stations in one market and turn the LR using a rotor to another market and receive stations on the same frequency. That’s happened with other antennas but certainly not as often for me. I’m installing a new fold over kit tower later this summer that will be about 70’ after mast and I’m looking forward to vertically stacking a couple LR’s but the wheels turn slow on those projects.
 

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Thank you for the detailed clarification. I’ve had stellar results with the Televes preamps including the intergraded preamp of the DAT BOSS LR. I like the directivity of this antenna. On many mornings and nights I can receive stations in one market and turn the LR using a rotor to another market and receive stations on the same frequency. That’s happened with other antennas but certainly not as often for me. I’m installing a new fold over kit tower later this summer that will be about 70’ after mast and I’m looking forward to vertically stacking a couple LR’s but the wheels turn slow on those projects.
I would not advise stacking two active DAT antennas, the results will likely be underwhelming due to the preamplifiers on each. What you could do is install passive dipoles on them, and then proceed to a traditional stack arrangement, with a preamplifier after, like the standalone 560383 or 561380
 

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At the time I bought the 560483, it was the only one that had just come in stock. I couldn't find any available other models. I didn't think there would be that much difference between the two models, so didn't want to wait until the single one came into stock. Then we got all sorts of snow constantly, and I couldn't install it until February anyway, lol.
Looking forward to seeing how the 560383 works in your situation.
 

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I had a DB8e and the Juice on a 50’ tower and thought they were great. I don’t have the equipment to test NF but constantly but watch the SNR over a period of weeks when watching TV. I tried the dual and got better results than the Juice but once I learned the 560483 wasn’t as good as the single-input because of some filtering I tried the 560383 and it was better than both the Juice and the 560483. I like testing antennas so I tried the DAT BOSS LR and it smoked all of the above. I’m assuming the DAT is a better antenna in my situation and the built in preamp is similar technology to the new stand alone preamps other the the LTE filter but not sure. It works well for me and fringe markets. I wanted to replace the combiner on the DB8e with the 560483 with panels in different directions but never got around to it. I would also like to try the Kitz sometime. Some posters swear by them. Good luck with your results!
This will be long-winded, but I think all needs to be given for background.

My outdoor antenna system which is at about 25ft at present installed with all PerfectVision 3Ghz swept RG-6 quad-shield & Thomas & Betts snap n seal connectors, consists of an AntennaCraft Y10-7-13 for my local RF 12 channel. That goes into an MCM Electronics FM filter, then into the non-power passing side of a UVSJ. Then a HDB91x UHF antenna for all my local UHF, went into the 2015 model KT-200-Coax preamp, and then into the power passing side of the UVSJ. Then, the output of that goes down to the power injector.

After the power injector, I also had a PCT-MA2-4P 4-way powered splitter, though likely overkill, it was handy from a previous setup. Off that, I have a Tivo Roamio used for OTA, and 2 tv sets (previously had 3 tv's, but one fried a few months ago).

My house is located at a place where all my DMA's tv towers are in an arc, from North, North-East to slightly West of South. They are also grouped all from around 32 to 52~ miles away. Luckily enough, the highest powered ones are on opposite ends of that arc, and the ONE low power station I want to receive (10KW at 32 miles) is close to dead-center of that arc.

So, my HDB91x UHF antenna is pointed right at that station (WFFC-LD, RF17), and it receives all the other UHF stations acceptably within limits of its beamwidth/sidelobes.

Once I got everything all tweaked and locked down some years ago and finally settled on the KT-200 preamp as being the BEST in my situation out of many that I had tried, I still always felt that there might possibly be more to be gained, and who of us doesn't like to keep playing with antenna setups, lol.

Anyway, I started reading about Televes and their various products this past Winter, and wanted to try one. I finally was able to pre-order a Televes 560483 two-input preamp from Ness Electronics,and got it 3 weeks later. Unfortunately, that was just before Christmas, and Michigan got pounded with too many snow storms to allow me to install it right away, since I had to go on the roof. That's not easy when there's at least two feet of icy snow up there.

I finally was able to install it in February. I eventually did a simple straight-swap of removing the KT-200, and installing the 560483 in its place, along with their power inserter to replace the Kitztech one. I tried various combinations between the antennas/preamp/uvsj while checking it, but NEVER found one that worked even as well as OR better than the KT-200.

In fact, the Televes preamp couldn't even lock WFFC-LD RF17 that the Kitztech could. Locking that station that's only 10KW and 32 miles away, is my gold-standard on MUST HAVES.

Anyway, I thought "Well, that's yet another $70 down the drain, and time wasted trying to beat the Kitztech". I then put the KT-200 back in, and put the Televes preamp into my parts drawer.

That's where it all stood, until a week or so ago after Chet's post in the TV and Fm DXing group on Facebook comparing various companies preamps, and I made a reply comment that I also hadn't had any luck with the particular Televes preamp I tried. Javier Ruano of Televes read that comment, mentioned that he didn't think that particular preamp was the best choice for my setup, and offered to swap it out straight-up for the 560383 single input one. I took him up on that offer. I had nothing to lose any way by doing so.

I received a Televes 560383 single input preamp this week Tuesday, and was finally able to install it today in my system, since we've had some bad weather the last few days. I once again did a straight swap for the KT-200, so the preamp is only in the UHF chain. I also of course swapped out the power injector, but initially left everything else the same.

The Tivo Roamio hidden diagnostics screen (which has a LOT of data), showed that Signal strength and SNR was on average a tad better than the KT-200, but not by much. Since the Televes power injector has TWO outputs and the Televes preamp has a little more juice than the KT-200, I then also decided to remove the PCT powered splitter from the signal chain. I put the Tivo on the injectors main output (since it's my most-watched device) and used a PCT passive two-way splitter on the other output for the two tv sets.

Now, with the Televes preamp, signal strength and SNR readings on average on the Tivo and tv sets are around 4-5 points UP higher than they were with the KT-200, and they appear to be more stable. Oh, did I mention we are having 30+MPH wind gusts all through this testing today 4/30, and I have lots of trees flapping their leaves starting about 100 to 300 feet away that I have to aim through? Even so, I'm NOT getting any RS Uncorrected errors on my weakest channel, which I was getting a few now and again with the KT-200.

Anyway, I feel that this particular Televes model 560383 preamp seems to beat the Kitztech KT-200-Coax by a bit, and I have every intention of keeping it installed. It appears to be well built, has FM & 5G LTE filtering built-in, and I don't see how anybody could go wrong in trying them out for themselves.
 

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The Tivo Roamio hidden diagnostics screen (which has a LOT of data), showed that Signal strength and SNR was on average a tad better than the KT-200, but not by much.
Just one comment since people keep getting fooled by this. I have a TiVo also. The "Signal Strength" on the Diagnostic screen is not actually signal strength. It is Signal Quality (SNR) on a percentage scale. It moves in lock step with the SNR. I wish it was real Signal Strength like it is on my Sony TV. That would be much more useful.
 

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This will be long-winded, but I think all needs to be given for background.

My outdoor antenna system which is at about 25ft at present installed with all PerfectVision 3Ghz swept RG-6 quad-shield & Thomas & Betts snap n seal connectors, consists of an AntennaCraft Y10-7-13 for my local RF 12 channel. That goes into an MCM Electronics FM filter, then into the non-power passing side of a UVSJ. Then a HDB91x UHF antenna for all my local UHF, went into the 2015 model KT-200-Coax preamp, and then into the power passing side of the UVSJ. Then, the output of that goes down to the power injector.

After the power injector, I also had a PCT-MA2-4P 4-way powered splitter, though likely overkill, it was handy from a previous setup. Off that, I have a Tivo Roamio used for OTA, and 2 tv sets (previously had 3 tv's, but one fried a few months ago).

My house is located at a place where all my DMA's tv towers are in an arc, from North, North-East to slightly West of South. They are also grouped all from around 32 to 52~ miles away. Luckily enough, the highest powered ones are on opposite ends of that arc, and the ONE low power station I want to receive (10KW at 32 miles) is close to dead-center of that arc.

So, my HDB91x UHF antenna is pointed right at that station (WFFC-LD, RF17), and it receives all the other UHF stations acceptably within limits of its beamwidth/sidelobes.

Once I got everything all tweaked and locked down some years ago and finally settled on the KT-200 preamp as being the BEST in my situation out of many that I had tried, I still always felt that there might possibly be more to be gained, and who of us doesn't like to keep playing with antenna setups, lol.

Anyway, I started reading about Televes and their various products this past Winter, and wanted to try one. I finally was able to pre-order a Televes 560483 two-input preamp from Ness Electronics,and got it 3 weeks later. Unfortunately, that was just before Christmas, and Michigan got pounded with too many snow storms to allow me to install it right away, since I had to go on the roof. That's not easy when there's at least two feet of icy snow up there.

I finally was able to install it in February. I eventually did a simple straight-swap of removing the KT-200, and installing the 560483 in its place, along with their power inserter to replace the Kitztech one. I tried various combinations between the antennas/preamp/uvsj while checking it, but NEVER found one that worked even as well as OR better than the KT-200.

In fact, the Televes preamp couldn't even lock WFFC-LD RF17 that the Kitztech could. Locking that station that's only 10KW and 32 miles away, is my gold-standard on MUST HAVES.

Anyway, I thought "Well, that's yet another $70 down the drain, and time wasted trying to beat the Kitztech". I then put the KT-200 back in, and put the Televes preamp into my parts drawer.

That's where it all stood, until a week or so ago after Chet's post in the TV and Fm DXing group on Facebook comparing various companies preamps, and I made a reply comment that I also hadn't had any luck with the particular Televes preamp I tried. Javier Ruano of Televes read that comment, mentioned that he didn't think that particular preamp was the best choice for my setup, and offered to swap it out straight-up for the 560383 single input one. I took him up on that offer. I had nothing to lose any way by doing so.

I received a Televes 560383 single input preamp this week Tuesday, and was finally able to install it today in my system, since we've had some bad weather the last few days. I once again did a straight swap for the KT-200, so the preamp is only in the UHF chain. I also of course swapped out the power injector, but initially left everything else the same.

The Tivo Roamio hidden diagnostics screen (which has a LOT of data), showed that Signal strength and SNR was on average a tad better than the KT-200, but not by much. Since the Televes power injector has TWO outputs and the Televes preamp has a little more juice than the KT-200, I then also decided to remove the PCT powered splitter from the signal chain. I put the Tivo on the injectors main output (since it's my most-watched device) and used a PCT passive two-way splitter on the other output for the two tv sets.

Now, with the Televes preamp, signal strength and SNR readings on average on the Tivo and tv sets are around 4-5 points UP higher than they were with the KT-200, and they appear to be more stable. Oh, did I mention we are having 30+MPH wind gusts all through this testing today 4/30, and I have lots of trees flapping their leaves starting about 100 to 300 feet away that I have to aim through? Even so, I'm NOT getting any RS Uncorrected errors on my weakest channel, which I was getting a few now and again with the KT-200.

Anyway, I feel that this particular Televes model 560383 preamp seems to beat the Kitztech KT-200-Coax by a bit, and I have every intention of keeping it installed. It appears to be well built, has FM & 5G LTE filtering built-in, and I don't see how anybody could go wrong in trying them out for themselves.
Now that’s a review! Just curious, did you take the PCT powered splitter out of system when you tried the 560483?
 

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Now that’s a review! Just curious, did you take the PCT powered splitter out of system when you tried the 560483?
Yes, but only ran my Tivo off of it, to see if that LD station would lock. Since it wouldn't with any configuration of that Televes preamp, I didn't go further with it. It's only 10KW, and I'm grabbing it from 32 miles away. The KT-200-Coax preamp handled that readily, but I like trying new things.
 

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Yes, but only ran my Tivo off of it, to see if that LD station would lock. Since it wouldn't with any configuration of that Televes preamp, I didn't go further with it. It's only 10KW, and I'm grabbing it from 32 miles away. The KT-200-Coax preamp handled that readily, but I like trying new things.
I know some preamps/antennas just don’t work out for some but I’m sold on the few Televes products I’ve tried and personally have not seen better customer service and that’s not to say nobody has good customer service but I haven’t experienced better. Javier or the Televes Tech will try to help with any question and are very available. I have an Avant X new in the box I’ll be trying one day but lots of work to do on cabling and such before that.
 

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I know some preamps/antennas just don’t work out for some but I’m sold on the few Televes products I’ve tried and personally have not seen better customer service and that’s not to say nobody has good customer service but I haven’t experienced better. Javier or the Televes Tech will try to help with any question and are very available. I have an Avant X new in the box I’ll be trying one day but lots of work to do on cabling and such before that.
I'd have to agree that the customer service that I got from Televes via Javier, was stellar, and certainly appreciated. That 2 input preamp may only have cost $70, but I'm retired, and it all adds up. I never would have spent yet another $70 to try their single input model, in hopes that it might work better. This gave me a chance to do so, and worked out fine for me.
 

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Just one comment since people keep getting fooled by this. I have a TiVo also. The "Signal Strength" on the Diagnostic screen is not actually signal strength. It is Signal Quality (SNR) on a percentage scale. It moves in lock step with the SNR. I wish it was real Signal Strength like it is on my Sony TV. That would be much more useful.
I have an older and newer model (X900H) Sony and both have a great Signal Diagnostics feature that I constantly monitor that includes Signal Strength and SNR (db). The positive thing on the newer model is in a couple of clicks I can be on that feature but the negative thing is the Signal Diagnostics screen takes up 1/3 of the screen and is nontransparent. The older model is the opposite. Another positive/negative for me is the Signal Diagnostics feature is often more interesting to watch than what is actually on TV.....
 

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Yes, but only ran my Tivo off of it, to see if that LD station would lock. Since it wouldn't with any configuration of that Televes preamp, I didn't go further with it. It's only 10KW, and I'm grabbing it from 32 miles away. The KT-200-Coax preamp handled that readily, but I like trying new things.
Just curious. Is that 32 miles with line of sight to the transmitter (no obstructions other than the trees you mentioned)?
 

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Just curious. Is that 32 miles with line of sight to the transmitter (no obstructions other than the trees you mentioned)?
Yes, 32 miles line of sight. No obstructions real close to me other than maple, oak, and some pine trees. There is a Verizon cell tower I have to aim right through the middle to get to WFFC, but that's 2.38 miles away.
 

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The XB16A has more gain, but costs more. Note that the gain is in dBd; add 2.15 for dBi.



TV / FM / DAB aerials and aerial kits plus satellite dishes Archives - A.T.V. Poles, Brackets, Clamps & Aerials
@traveling wave I just tried ordering one of these XB16A antennas. I live in mid-Michigan, here's what they said:

Unfortunately there is a £90 surcharge to the USA
That's $127.03 at today's exchange rate. That puts this antenna out of reach for an additional 2dB over an HDB91x.
 

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After reading above comments about the Televes one input amp I tried it to solve a channel 3 (PBS) problem.
I made a CH 3 length dipole attached to the rail of my balcony (keep the management happy) in our retirement apartment facing 5 deg off Roanoke, VA towers 50 miles. Picks up all channels + CH 7 from Bedford 20 miles. Outside unit 3' away -bottom of rail 25 ' to inside unit - feeds 2 tv's.
With the previous Channel Master red/green amp inside channel 3 had constant break ups and we could not use our
kitchen LED light - my DVR+ now says 100/100 for all channels.
The only interference left is a foot vibrator used in the same room - must use when CH 3 not being used.
Note: I bought it from Lowes for half price of Amazon ( and got Korean vet 10% discount)
Thank you all.
 

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The only interference left is a foot vibrator used in the same room - must use when CH 3 not being used.
Can you find a metal box with an open top to put the foot vibrator in, and then ground the box to an electrical outlet ground screw, that you KNOW is actually grounded? The correct size to be able to still use it, but maybe enough to act as a Faraday Cage, and help shield it from causing issues with reception.

IF the foot vibrator is metal, (or the motor inside) perhaps just adding a separate ground wire from the motor to an outlet ground screw would be enough.

Of course, I'm also assuming that you have the coax and preamp grounded? If not, you should do so. Even in a use such as yours (low and short coax), it'll help protect from static.
 
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