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Well, my room is pretty packed, I currently have some old Technic towers (with Rainbow CAL25 tweeters and crossover)... and they're huge and I would like a smaller tower to replace them..


Sorry for the noobness, but what is Near field? Like, the listening spot being close to the speakers?


I use this setup to play games + watch BluRay... The computer monitor is up against the wall, next to a 42in Plasma, the couch (movie watching position) is near to the center of the room.. I didn't consider bookshelves because I don't want to buy a stand and them pretty much taking up the same amount of space a tower would.


What would happen if you were to put them against a wall or corner? Boomy bass / treble reflection off the wall?


I'm kinda happy with my current setup.. I just don't know if I'm missing out on something by having these [Technics] as my main L/R Front stage.. The A5s will be my first leap into high end audio...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlipCpt45  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc#post_22527549


Well, my room is pretty packed, I currently have some old Technic towers (with Rainbow CAL25 tweeters and crossover)... and they're huge and I would like a smaller tower to replace them..

Sorry for the noobness, but what is Near field? Like, the listening spot being close to the speakers?

I use this setup to play games + watch BluRay... The computer monitor is up against the wall, next to a 42in Plasma, the couch (movie watching position) is near to the center of the room.. I didn't consider bookshelves because I don't want to buy a stand and them pretty much taking up the same amount of space a tower would.

What would happen if you were to put them against a wall or corner? Boomy bass / treble reflection off the wall?

I'm kinda happy with my current setup.. I just don't know if I'm missing out on something by having these [Technics] as my main L/R Front stage.. The A5s will be my first leap into high end audio...

Nearfield would be like sitting at a desk with speakers.


Putting them up against the walls would cause a peak in the bass response and could cause issues in the mid and treble. If you can angle them to fire in toward the center of the room and have them about 6" away from the walls than they would be a huge step up compared to your Tecs. I really don't think its a bad idea really to put them in a bedroom, they are small and compact. Just keep them away from the wall a few inches.
 

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I see.. The Technics are angled towards the center... They're near to the walls as they are pretty large..


When I game on PC, I'm pretty near to the speakers as they're in the front, and my PC monitor is on the wall a little off center...


Will that be a problem and considered near field?


I'd say 95% of the time I'm probably listening (music) from that position than centered "movie" seating position..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlipCpt45  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc#post_22533573


I see.. The Technics are angled towards the center... They're near to the walls as they are pretty large..

When I game on PC, I'm pretty near to the speakers as they're in the front, and my PC monitor is on the wall a little off center...

Will that be a problem and considered near field?

I'd say 95% of the time I'm probably listening (music) from that position than centered "movie" seating position..

They only problem would be imaging sitting near field when you at you computer. But since you mostly listen to music the A5s would probably be a good idea since your sitting away from them. The A5s are also going to be muc more slim than those Technics so you may end up with alittle extra room around the speakers.
 

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I'm not really sitting... away from one channel.. lol I'm parallel with the speakers as they aren't on the back wall (with the monitor).. I sit pretty close to the left channel Technic.. I can touch it with my arm. lol that's how close I am.


I'll probably place an order in a couple of weeks.. I hope they don't fail my expectations lol.. I've heard B&W 802 Diamonds in a high end store's listening room (probably was treated) without a sub.. and I thought they sounded pretty good.... but not 14k worth or whatever the price was lol


Here's a VERY crude drawing + measurements of my room.

 

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Just received a pair of A5's a couple of nights ago and I'm really impressed so far. Frankly these were for a dedicated HT, but I've been in there both evenings just listening to music because it's so lifelike. I've got a denon avr-4311 and I'm stunned by how good music is on Direct with these speakers. The woofers noticeably improved but I think that happened in the first 5 hours. They really put my older Atlantic Tech 250.1 bookshelf fronts to shame. I had to boost the Atlantic Tech center channel to keep up with these puppies.


Can't wait for the A2B's to come in and I see a pair of A4's in my future if they spec as good as the rest.


Shipping and packaging from audioinsider was very good. Double boxed with with thick foam (the squared off firm blocky kind, not styrofoam). If you are going to use the internet this is important because I had also ordered a ULS-15 from Hsu and that was not so good. Fedex damaged it and I'm waiting for a new one to be delivered. It too was double boxed, but the regular styrofoam around it was not so thick and there was big air gap on several sides. Fedex punched a hole through both boxes on one of the sides where the air gap was. If there had been thick foam on that side it might have survived. In fairness the ULS-15 was twice as heavy and it's deceptive when you look at the box. Most likely someone used something to push it around and pushed right through the box instead or something fell and hit it but it didn't bump out of the way because it was so heavy.


Waiting for the ULS-15 before I take a first stab a Audyssey.


I am missing the port plugs that were supposed to be included though. I sent an email requesting those even though I'm not sure I'll use them.


Overall I highly recommend these based on my initial impressions.


Couple of questions:


1. I have the denon set to large speakers for these A5's. Is that correct? The bass coming out of them is really impressive.


2. The Atlantic Tech center channel I'm currently using has a Timbre adjustment. It had a position marked for matching the AT 250.1 bookshelves I had been using. How does one tweak a Timbre adjustment for a different set of speakers? What is it I'm listening for to do this?


thanks


steve
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm1212  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc#post_22645887


Can't wait for the A2B's to come in and I see a pair of A4's in my future if they spec as good as the rest.

I have the only A2b in existence, which I can let you have for a price.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm1212  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc#post_22645887


I am missing the port plugs that were supposed to be included though. I sent an email requesting those even though I'm not sure I'll use them.

The A1b's were missing the plugs as well. I wonder if that's something Jon is going to have to get fixed.
 

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Discussion Starter #28

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm1212  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc#post_22645887


Just received a pair of A5's a couple of nights ago and I'm really impressed so far. Frankly these were for a dedicated HT, but I've been in there both evenings just listening to music because it's so lifelike. I've got a denon avr-4311 and I'm stunned by how good music is on Direct with these speakers. The woofers noticeably improved but I think that happened in the first 5 hours. They really put my older Atlantic Tech 250.1 bookshelf fronts to shame. I had to boost the Atlantic Tech center channel to keep up with these puppies.

Can't wait for the A2B's to come in and I see a pair of A4's in my future if they spec as good as the rest.

Shipping and packaging from audioinsider was very good. Double boxed with with thick foam (the squared off firm blocky kind, not styrofoam). If you are going to use the internet this is important because I had also ordered a ULS-15 from Hsu and that was not so good. Fedex damaged it and I'm waiting for a new one to be delivered. It too was double boxed, but the regular styrofoam around it was not so thick and there was big air gap on several sides. Fedex punched a hole through both boxes on one of the sides where the air gap was. If there had been thick foam on that side it might have survived. In fairness the ULS-15 was twice as heavy and it's deceptive when you look at the box. Most likely someone used something to push it around and pushed right through the box instead or something fell and hit it but it didn't bump out of the way because it was so heavy.

Waiting for the ULS-15 before I take a first stab a Audyssey.

I am missing the port plugs that were supposed to be included though. I sent an email requesting those even though I'm not sure I'll use them.

Overall I highly recommend these based on my initial impressions.

Couple of questions:
1. I have the denon set to large speakers for these A5's. Is that correct? The bass coming out of them is really impressive.

2. The Atlantic Tech center channel I'm currently using has a Timbre adjustment. It had a position marked for matching the AT 250.1 bookshelves I had been using. How does one tweak a Timbre adjustment for a different set of speakers? What is it I'm listening for to do this?

thanks

steve

Steve,


Large is the ONLY way to listen to music on the A5's. They blend well with my HSU VTF-15h and they still sound great without it. I can tell you that Jon will get you squared-away with the port plugs at no charge, but you'll likely not use them unless you have them placed FAR too close to a boundary (read: less than 5" from the back wall) or if they are both deeply corner-loaded in a small room.


The A5 design is critically damped, so there is very little ringing or resonance that comes through (much less than the typical tower design). This is just as Jon and I intended it to be. Bass that is deceptively powerful, but doesn't scream "Hey! I'm here! Look at me!"


I realize that for movies, some type of high-pass crossover is in order. This is my official recommendation for movies: 50hz/60hz, or set them to "small" in your Denon.


However, I have been running them full-range for the entirety of time that I've had them and they have NEVER given me a problem. Running them full-range is done at your own risk (you need to know your equipment and be truly honest about how much current your receiver can deliver and how big your room is). My Arcam AVR-300 has a 1.2kw toroidal power supply transformer, good heat-sinking, and 48,000uf of capacitance.


For movies, I typically rec getting an outboard amp (like an Emotiva) for running the A5's full range at reference on action movies. I have had zero issues. Nothing but clean, loud sound.

The A5's were conceived and designed with full-range stereo listening as a primary role and using them as such realizes their potential most fully.
 

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Jon I have a question. Someone on the forums said using the plugs can damage the drivers if played at high levels. Is this true? I've had your ARX's for about 10 months now and never experienced any type of downfall and I have played them loud! I have the A3 as F/R, A2 as center, and A1 as SR/SL. I have them set as small in the AVR and using the port plugs. Thanks in advance.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Lane  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc/30#post_22648311


We're happy to mail em on request. Yours are on the way, Jim.

Yup, got them already. Love the compression packaging...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm1212  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc#post_22645887


Couple of questions:

1. I have the denon set to large speakers for these A5's. Is that correct? The bass coming out of them is really impressive.

I keep my A5s set to 60hrz all the time. If I was you I would keep them set to small and cross at 50 or 60hrz and let the subwoofer do the rest. The A5s are only tuned to 52hrz so IMO not a great idea to run them full range or with a crossover lower than 50hrz.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokenAshes  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc/30#post_22648631


Jon I have a question. Someone on the forums said using the plugs can damage the drivers if played at high levels. Is this true? I've had your ARX's for about 10 months now and never experienced any type of downfall and I have played them loud! I have the A3 as F/R, A2 as center, and A1 as SR/SL. I have them set as small in the AVR and using the port plugs. Thanks in advance.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

It was probably me who said that. I had excursion issues with the A2s as mains, although it was only during one or two quick movie scenes (Transformers 2 and Dark Knight). I though plugging the ports would cut down on the excursion of the woofers, but Jon mentioned that the cabinet volume for the Arx models is too large when sealed to keep the woofers under control. To run the Arx models as a sealed system they really should have much smaller internal cabinet volume. IMO the plugs are worth much and IMO offered no change in sound.
 

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So if my A3 (F/R) and A2 (C) are more than 6 inches from the wall and slightly angled inward toward the main listening position I should keep the Ports open? I'm also running a HSU VTF3 MK4 with the system.


Another thing, should I angle the center speaker up a little if its slightly lower in height to the listening position?


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokenAshes  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc/30#post_22648631


Someone on the forums said using the plugs can damage the drivers if played at high levels. Is this true?

A sealed system doesn't have the excursion cancellation a tuned bass reflex system has so if you were to drive the Arx or any sealed system very hard fullrange and exceed the cone's motion limit you could damage the driver. Opening the tuned port provides an oscillating air slug to oppose the cone travel and at the tuned resonance, reduce it to nearly zero. However, below that tuned frequency the opposite occurs, as the tuned port unloads and now the cone "sees" an open box with no air spring.


The short answer is that at very low frequencies the sealed system offers better control, but above those frequencies the open-port bass reflex system does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokenAshes  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc/30#post_22648631


I've had your ARX's for about 10 months now and never experienced any type of downfall and I have played them loud! I have the A3 as F/R, A2 as center, and A1 as SR/SL. I have them set as small in the AVR and using the port plugs. Thanks in advance.

Setting them to small provided electronic excursion protection, which is the same as mechanical control. Here you have built one of the systems we talk about in the Arx User Guide, which is a pair of overlapping high pass functions, one naturally occurring in the speaker and the other provided by your electronics. When these are set up right they can be among the best compromises.
 

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Discussion Starter #35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Lane  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc/30#post_22648331


You consistently cause the warranty office concern, Buford, but so far they haven't had much to do. We had a pinholed woofer surround once that QC missed.

To everyone else, it's hard for a manufacturer to put into words how a product should be used so as to optimize enjoyment and minimize trouble, but I think we can say that even the five-driver Arx A5 was not specifically intended to be a reference-level device. It's a fairly compact tower and in electrical terms a fairly conventional arrangement of 5 unusual drivers in a three-way system. That said, they go loud and don't break which owes to all of the drivers being strong devices used in sensible moderation.

BufordTJustice's experiences can at times be on the bleeding edge but he hasn't submitted anything for service. Yet.

Very true, Jon. I can't argue one bit.


I've generally found that loudspeakers receive the most abuse during movie watching, which is why I recommend a high pass x-over in one's AVR for that use.


Jon, you did say you wanted me to test every aspect of the A5's. I'm keeping my promise.



As for all the others reading, please don't abuse your equipment. The Arx series tolerates a LOT of it before it breaks. If you've damaged an Arx midwoofer, midrange, or tweeter, it's been abused. Period. Unless it was misbehaving from the start, it was damaged from misuse. Please also note that misuse can be the clipping of a current-limited home receiver during an action movie.....it's your job to know what your equipment is capable of and what you are asking your speakers to do. Just a friendly warning. I know nearly all of you are responsible adults and would never knowingly abuse a piece of equipment that YOU payed for. But alas....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc/30#post_22649193


I keep my A5s set to 60hrz all the time. If I was you I would keep them set to small and cross at 50 or 60hrz and let the subwoofer do the rest. The A5s are only tuned to 52hrz so IMO not a great idea to run them full range or with a crossover lower than 50hrz.

Not to further excite Jon's warranty sensibilities, but I've played plenty of bass mechanik 'the future is bass' through the A5's with them set to full range and no sub in the mix. The Arx midwoofers have ample x-mech and the A5's have a graceful rolloff below about 38hz in my room. I've never had a driver bottom. I've played the same album at the same gain with the A5's set to 'small' with no additional clarity, impact, improvement in soundstage, or improvement of any other positive trait. If somebody has the ability to match phase in the bass region between the sub and the A5's, and their amp has the current reserves available, I don't see a reason NOT to run in this mode for music other than pure personal preference (which I'm not deriding at all).


I often find myself just turning my sub off for music listening....even though the HSU is a great performer on music. Different strokes for different folks.
 
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I see you guys talking about setting your A5 to 60hz. Looking at my AVR my bass cross over is at 80hz. For the A3 should I set my cross over to 60hz as well?


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

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Discussion Starter #38

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokenAshes  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc/30#post_22650356


I see you guys talking about setting your A5 to 60hz. Looking at my AVR my bass cross over is at 80hz. For the A3 should I set my cross over to 60hz as well?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I would recommend experimenting with 60hz for the A3's as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Ok, the more I think about it, here is where I'm at on the abuse/reference level/extreme high volume issue.


I'm a Deputy Sheriff in Orlando, FL. As a cop, I have to cover a large area and have to cover long distances in my patrol vehicle.


I'm fully aware that some vehicle tires have a speed rating.....a rated speed wherein that tire is guaranteed to perform safely and as-advertised. For instance, some tires have an R speed rating which guarantees safe performance up to 106 miles per hour. I can verify that these tires indeed will perform with composure to over 135mph on a long, flat highway. However, the tire that is properly rated for that speed range would be a V-rated tire. Due to over engineering and quality materials, the R rated tire from a quality manufacturer will often perform well past its original design envelope.


In terms of the A5 (and really ANY consumer loudspeaker), it will often greatly exceed its "speed rating" and play much louder than it was originally intended to play. It will make your ears hurt....and usually do it while maintaining an admirably low level of distortion. However, don't misinterpret its raw capabilities with its intended design parameters. This can be said of nearly every loudspeaker on the market today.


I'm not sure how to phrase it, but the Arx series often plays out of its league (in a good way). As Jon said, there is NO replacement for displacement (cone area and cabinet volume).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Lane  /t/1429229/the-official-arx-owners-thread-a1-a1b-a2-a2b-a3-a5-etc/30#post_22650765


I'd like to pull this next remark out of context and use it to address some others in the thread:

Any ripple-free mesh between mains and bass system takes phase agreement. Understanding this can add options to your setup, as we've been covering in this thread a bit.

Your ideal setup takes some experimentation. There are ways to make everything more or less agree in terms of levels - getting that flat frequency response you room-correct and speaker-correct to get - but getting the phase right in the transfer function between mains and bass system should start with a goal. That goal is the common 80Hz 4th order/24dB per octave LR response function, which is ripple free through the crossover region and has constant power.

How we get it is where the options come in and this is where your electronics and therefore your choices will vary.

The easiest way to approximate it with a speaker that hopefully has another octave of natural output below 80Hz is to just set everything electronically fo 4th order, 80Hz. Not perfect but close enough. We'll ignore the natural rolloff function of the speakers lower down and have the electronics do this work. This is a common, virtually plug and play option.

The other way to get it - which goes back to your question, SmokenAshes - is to greatly reduce the rolloff rate of the main speakers from the bass reflex rate of approximately 24dB/Octave to half that rate in a new sealed system, one we get by stopping the bass reflex ports. We raise the rolloff frequency substantially, but we get only half the rate of attenuation, which now will be 12dB/Octave.

Now we just need to add another 12dB/Octave of electronic attenuation to get to our ideal. Once that's done, we set the sub to the common 24dB/Octave and now we have approximated a flat summation. To do so you'd need a setting related to the "small speaker" switch that grants only 12dB/Octave of rolloff rate, and since we've raised the main speaker's rolloff frequency by stopping the ports, we'll probably still want to be up around 80Hz. Although, as BufordTJustice notes,

You'll want to experiment and if you also have the freedom to adjust your electronic crossover's frequency, start around 80Hz and then start moving down until you hear a discontinuity between the mains and the sub. If you do, raise that frequency until the sound warms excessively in the upper bass and dial back down again. You can also use your room EQ to find this relationship visually on a measurement scale. Measuring can be crucial and very informative, but how things sound is always king. Further, rooms are notorious for fouling up your best plans, especially in the bass.

If you go through this ritual, you may find that your plugged-port setup sounds cleaner than leaving the ports open, getting a sharp speaker cutoff lower down but risking added ripple in the response. Ripple is ringing, which means that the overall system is storing energy and muddying your sound.

(There are also all sorts of setup routines, features, and options in modern electronics so please realize that all of the above relates to a theoretical best case, simple method. Experts are solicited for added information on alternative setups.)

The desired combined function mentioned is how a purist sees the phase and level relationship between any two drivers in a multi-driver system. We've written about this in the Arx User Guide.

I do this with my A2 center. I use the port plug and run it full-range. It is a different distance from the rear wall than the A5's, which remain un-plugged (to coin a phrase), which means it also has a different delay setting my AVR. It gives the most even response when measured via RTA AND it sounds the best (warm and full without bloat).


Experimentation is key.
 
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