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The setting you pictured is NOT a crossover, it's an LPF (low pass filter) only for the LFE channel.

The subwoofer plays LFE and ALSO redirected bass from speakers set to "small" below the crossover. The crossover on the SPEAKERS determines what gets redirected to the subwoofer, the LFE LPF only filters the .1 LFE channel.

All that said, I don't know what you mean by "manage" your subwoofer. You still need bass management right? The processor (AVR) is going to control that, then once you send the bass managed signal to the subwoofer you can do with it what you will. If you set controls on the sub they will interact with the AVR controls.

For example, let's say you cross your speakers at 100Hz in the Denon AVR. That will apply a 100Hz HPF to the speakers, and a 100Hz LPF to the bass managed signal sent to the subwoofer. But if you set the filter knob on the subwoofer itself to 80Hz, now you're going to be missing content in between 80 and 100Hz. Even if both filters are set to 80Hz, the double LPF on the subwoofer will cause it to roll off more steeply than intended and could create a "suckout" at 80Hz.

Do you have measurement gear so you can actually see what's happening and make informed decisions about this? If not, then you should just let the AVR do its thing.
Ok, gotcha‘... so I just set the SW volume to 12 o‘clock, the crossover to the highest setting, just like in the manuel, and let audyssey do its magic....
 

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Yes, you want any filters in the sub "out of the way" when you run Audyssey. So if the crossover/LPF knob on the sub doesn't have a "bypass" option, just turn it all the way up.

The "12 o'clock" volume/gain setting recommendation is often too loud, but it really depends on the specific sub and its gain structure. Most people find that ~1/3 is a safer starting point than ~1/2, although Audyssey will ask you to turn it down if its too loud.

Pro tip: when Audyssey asks you to turn the sub volume down in the initial level matching step, do NOT turn it all the way down to 75dB like it asks. Instead shoot for ~80-85dB, so that Audyssey sets the channel level negative. That will reduce the chances of signal clipping and give you some headroom to bump the sub level up ~3-5dB while still keeping the sub trim negative. Audyssey will be mad at you and the level test will be red instead of green, but you can just click "next" to move forward anyway and calibration will proceed.
 

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In addition I am not sure PC's and 13 channel AVRs are a good comparison. New PCs have solid state drives and very small chips. They need to cool the processor and the video card which probably has 4-8 Gig of memory, so it is taking a big load off the processor. A desktop pc today is a big box with a lot of empty space.
You are right, it is amazing how easy it is to build a PC......
 

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Hey guys!
This has probably been discussed a thousand times, but I'm just wondering what you feel about Dynamic EQ on the 8500h?
I kind of like how it brings a lot of more depth to my speakers, but at the same time it brings too much bass to my surround speakers and obscures the details.

Is there a middle ground here that I can reach?

Thank you!
 

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Hey guys!
This has probably been discussed a thousand times, but I'm just wondering what you feel about Dynamic EQ on the 8500h?
I kind of like how it brings a lot of more depth to my speakers, but at the same time it brings too much bass to my surround speakers and obscures the details.

Is there a middle ground here that I can reach?

Thank you!
DEQ is one of the better parts of Audyssey and can work very well. I have had the best luck with the following using the app:
-Room curve with a downward tilting target
-Moderate boost in the sub curve (3-5db from 160-20)
-Running DEQ set to on but using reference level offset (adjust to fine which setting you like best, for me ended up at -10)
For me this sounds good at all volumes. I tend to listen @ -10 to -20 with most programming. DEQ makes lower than reference level listening very enjoyable. But in my opinion if you have a very large sub boost and run DEQ on top of it with a reference level offset of zero, the bass is too much. I do wish DEQ didn't boost surrounds as much..
 

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Discussion Starter #5,887 (Edited)
Hey guys!
This has probably been discussed a thousand times, but I'm just wondering what you feel about Dynamic EQ on the 8500h?
I kind of like how it brings a lot of more depth to my speakers, but at the same time it brings too much bass to my surround speakers and obscures the details.

Is there a middle ground here that I can reach?

Thank you!

Yes, the middle ground involves using the REFERENCE LEVEL OFFSET parameter to tweak how "strong" the DEQ boost is. First, important to understand how DEQ works....

DEQ does two things:
1) It boosts the frequency response (not just bass, it boosts bass the most but also highs a bit) to compensate for human hearing (equal loudness curves)
2) It also boosts the volume in the surround/rear speakers to increase surround immersion when the volume drops

The 2nd part is the aspect that generates the most user complaints, as in many cases it's overbearing and causes the surrounds to be too loud. But the first part can also "misfire" if the content is not mixed to reference standards.

The way DEQ works is that it varies the "boost" depending on how far the master volume (MV) is below reference level. By default, it assumes 0.0 MV (or 80 on the 0-98 scale) is "reference level".

But not all content is mixed to those standards. For example, TV shows might be monitored 10dB lower than film soundtracks, and music can be all over the place. Even with movies, some studios (e.g. Disney) are notorious for mixing at lower levels and/or applying dynamic compression.

So basically, Audyssey created a "one size fits all" solution in a world with many sizes that don't actually fit. To address this, they added the Ref Level Offset (RLO) option.

Essentially, the offset "tricks" DEQ into thinking the master volume is actually X dB louder than it is. So, for example, if you listen at -20dB on default settings, Dyn EQ will think you're 20dB below reference and boost accordingly. But if you set the RLO to 10dB, that tricks DEQ into thinking you are actually at -10dB MV, not -20, so it doesn't boost nearly as much because it thinks you are 10dB below reference level instead of 20dB.

So my recommendation is if you find the bass + surround boost to be overwhelming, play with the RLO setting at your preferred listening level and find the spot where the surrounds are pleasing (not too much boost). Then, if you need to bring back the bass a bit, you can boost the sub a few dB and/or use the Audyssey App to adjust the target curve to be downward sloping instead of flat. Making the target curve downward sloping compensates for the low frequency portion of DEQ, offsetting the reduction in frequency boost from setting the RLO offset. The most important for me is getting the surrounds dialed in so it's all seamless, not overboosted, as there are other tools to tweak the low frequencies.

So, long story short, I basically am reiterating the recommendation above:

-Room curve with a downward tilting target
-Moderate boost in the sub curve (3-5db from 160-20)
-Running DEQ set to on but using reference level offset (adjust to fine which setting you like best, for me ended up at -10)
Play around and find your sweet spot, it could also be a middle ground where you drop the surround levels 2dB each + 10dB RLO + 3dB bass boost (for example). The nice thing about DEQ is that once you find the sweet spot, it will maintain the tonal balance as you raise/lower the volume.
 

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Yes, the middle ground involves using the REFERENCE LEVEL OFFSET parameter to tweak how "strong" the DEQ boost is. First, important to understand how DEQ works....

DEQ does two things:
1) It boosts the frequency response (not just bass, it boosts bass the most but also highs a bit) to compensate for human hearing (equal loudness curves)
2) It also boosts the volume in the surround/rear speakers to increase surround immersion when the volume drops

The 2nd part is the aspect that generates the most user complaints, as in many cases it's overbearing and causes the surrounds to be too loud. But the first part can also "misfire" if the content is not mixed to reference standards.

The way DEQ works is that it varies the "boost" depending on how far the master volume (MV) is below reference level. By default, it assumes 0.0 MV (or 80 on the 0-98 scale) is "reference level".

But not all content is mixed to those standards. For example, TV shows might be monitored 10dB lower than film soundtracks, and music can be all over the place. Even with movies, some studios (e.g. Disney) are notorious for mixing at lower levels and/or applying dynamic compression.

So basically, Audyssey created a "one size fits all" solution in a world with many sizes that don't actually fit. To address this, they added the Ref Level Offset (RLO) option.

Essentially, the offset "tricks" DEQ into thinking the master volume is actually X dB louder than it is. So, for example, if you listen at -20dB on default settings, Dyn EQ will think you're 20dB below reference and boost accordingly. But if you set the RLO to 10dB, that tricks DEQ into thinking you are actually at -10dB MV, not -20, so it doesn't boost nearly as much because it thinks you are 10dB below reference level instead of 20dB.

So my recommendation is if you find the bass + surround boost to be overwhelming, play with the RLO setting at your preferred listening level and find the spot where the surrounds are pleasing (not too much boost). Then, if you need to bring back the bass a bit, you can boost the sub a few dB and/or use the Audyssey App to adjust the target curve to be downward sloping instead of flat. Making the target curve downward sloping compensates for the low frequency portion of DEQ, offsetting the reduction in frequency boost from setting the RLO offset. The most important for me is getting the surrounds dialed in so it's all seamless, not overboosted, as there are other tools to tweak the low frequencies.

So, long story short, I basically am reiterating the recommendation above:



Play around and find your sweet spot, it could also be a middle ground where you drop the surround levels 2dB each + 10dB RLO + 3dB bass boost (for example). The nice thing about DEQ is that once you find the sweet spot, it will maintain the tonal balance as you raise/lower the volume.
Thanks for the more in depth explanation. Definitely matches my experience. Conversely, if you listen at the same volume all the time, downward sloping curve, and larger bass curve in the app accompanied by boosting the sub level the same amount.
 

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You are right, it is amazing how easy it is to build a PC......
Without straying too far afield from the 8500, I am involved in a pc build right now with my grandson. He is a gamer, so I am a little out of my element. I go for pcs that will do pix and home video editing. I am just happy my grandson has included me in this project. Ok maybe my checkbook was part of the attraction. He has been gaming on my x-box which is attached to the 8500. He is going to miss my sound system. He will use earphones in this new pc.
 

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So just finished Hobbs & Shaw on my setup.
Reference and DEQ on and set to offset of 5.

The movie sounded way more intense if mode set to „pure direct“ rather than movie mode and dolby truehd.
Is it just my perception or a general setting i should use?

What mode do you always keep it on? Thanks!
 

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Thanks for the more in depth explanation. Definitely matches my experience. Conversely, if you listen at the same volume all the time, downward sloping curve, and larger bass curve in the app accompanied by boosting the sub level the same amount.
Yes, I actually disabled DEQ when I don't have volume restrictions. I use the Quick Select buttons to save "Late Night" and "Full Blast" modes.

If I'm listening at "theater levels" (usually 10-15dB below reference level) then I have things manually dialed in exactly how I like it. Don't want anything "dynamic" mucking around. Downward sloping target below ~500Hz, bump the sub a few dB, carefully level match with REW, now it sounds good at my desired "reference preference" level.

The problem with DEQ is that it boosts below reference level, but it REDUCES bass and surrounds above reference level. So if you have RLO set to 15dB to tamp down the surrounds, then boost the sub a bit, no big deal if you never listen above -20. But my reference volume is usually around -12, so I don't want DEQ reducing the bass that I've dialed in or messing with the channel levels. Then you pop in a Disney disc that's too soft, so now you crank it up to -7 instead of -12... now DEQ thinks you're 8dB above reference with that 15dB RLO.

No thanks. I set the volume at the level I find comfortable and don't want to have to worry about DEQ cutting instead of boosting because it's a weak mix, when I've dialed in the right target response for my desired level.

Late at night when the wife/kids are asleep, or trying not to bug people downstairs, by all means love me some DEQ (and DV if needed). At theater levels, I only use Audyssey to EQ and shape the response below ~750Hz.
 
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So just finished Hobbs & Shaw on my setup.
Reference and DEQ on and set to offset of 5.

The movie sounded way more intense if mode set to „pure direct“ rather than movie mode and dolby truehd.
Is it just my perception or a general setting i should use?

What mode do you always keep it on? Thanks!
DIRECT and PURE DIRECT modes disable Audyssey and bass management and therefore are generally not recommended.
 

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Yes, I actually disabled DEQ when I don't have volume restrictions. I use the Quick Select buttons to save "Late Night" and "Full Blast" modes.

If I'm listening at "theater levels" (usually 10-15dB below reference level) then I have things manually dialed in exactly how I like it. Don't want anything "dynamic" mucking around. Downward sloping target below ~500Hz, bump the sub a few dB, carefully level match with REW, now it sounds good at my desired "reference preference" level.

The problem with DEQ is that it boosts below reference level, but it REDUCES bass and surrounds above reference level. So if you have RLO set to 15dB to tamp down the surrounds, then boost the sub a bit, no big deal if you never listen above -20. But my reference volume is usually around -12, so I don't want DEQ reducing the bass that I've dialed in or messing with the channel levels. Then you pop in a Disney disc that's too soft, so now you crank it up to -7 instead of -12... now DEQ thinks you're 8dB above reference with that 15dB RLO.

No thanks. I set the volume at the level I find comfortable and don't want to have to worry about DEQ cutting instead of boosting because it's a weak mix, when I've dialed in the right target response for my desired level.

Late at night when the wife/kids are asleep, or trying not to bug people downstairs, by all means love me some DEQ (and DV if needed). At theater levels, I only use Audyssey to EQ and shape the response below ~750Hz.

I used DEQ when I had a 3.1 system, but reducing the surrounds and adjusting RLO to compensate became too convoluted once I added surrounds. At this point, I am happier with turning it off and boosting my sub by 4 dB instead.
 

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Denon AVC x8500h issues

Just recently got a Samsung 86inch Q80T and connected it to my denon avc x8500h, dolby atmos detected and plays fine, but eveytime I increase or lower the volume using the TV control or even the receiver control, audio drops for a second or two. I'm running a cruxtec 10m hdmi 2.1 fibre cable. Only happens with content streaming from the TV (netflix) whilst the amp is in dolby atmos mode. Anyone had similar issues?
 

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Just updating that playing content from bluray in atmos does not show the symptoms I mentioned above. Only when streaming from netflix in atmos.
 

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It was originally in a separate thread and it got moved here. You havent fully lost your mind yet Craig :rolleyes:
Thank goodness. I was starting to think I really need to drink 3 cups of coffee in the morning before posting ! :eek:
 
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