[jdsmoothie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang /forum/post/20627288


Is it possible to deduce what the benchmark numbers will be for the 2112?? Guesses anyone? Also, when PLiiZ is engaged, is that the same power draw as 7 channels (when benchmark tests are done, the 7 channel power split levels are usually depressing)??


I know the 991/3311 had pretty impressive benchmark numbers for 5 channels. I know the 3112 (and maybe the 2312) will be the closest in terms of power.

A guess ... 2CH - 100W; 5CH - 72W; 7CH - 56W


AFAIK, when benchmarking 7CH, a Multi CH Stereo mode is used so all channels get the same full range signal (not something the average owner would do with a normal 5.1 or 7.1 setup in which the surround channels are using far less power then the front mains).

 

[ClintTheGent]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie /forum/post/20422026


4. GUI/Menu display: With the exception of the 3312CI (displays GUI/status menu over "any" video output connection), all other XX12 models can ONLY display the GUI/status menu over HDMI, which means if you don't have an HDMI TV you should likely be considering one of last year's XX11 models that CAN display over other than just HDMI.


...


49. HDMI --> Component Video conversion: If you have an older non-HDMI TV, note that there is no HDMI--> Component video down conversion. Either you must upgrade to either the 2312CI or 3312CI, both of which have a componenent video input AND output, or you can use an external device that can do the conversion like this one.

You make note that the 2312CI has component (componenent, actually

). Does that mean it still doesn't output the menu and OSD?

 

[agen999]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie /forum/post/20627303


^^

You will be using the preouts so there's nothing to connect to those speaker posts.

So if I have a Speaker Selector (Russound ss-4.2) connected to pairs of outdoor, remote room and bedroom speakers, can I use the front speaker posts to drive them?

 

[jdsmoothie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ClintTheGent /forum/post/20627444


You make note that the 2312CI has component (componenent, actually

). Does that mean it still doesn't output the menu and OSD?

Correct.

 

[jdsmoothie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by agen999 /forum/post/20627466


So if I have a Speaker Selector (Russound ss-4.2) connected to pairs of outdoor, remote room and bedroom speakers, can I use the front speaker posts to drive them?

Technically yes ... however, the volume control may be tricky as you would have to deselect each room anytime you didn't want the main zone volume passing to those speakers, unlike with a Zone 2 connection which you can simply turn the whole Zone ON/OFF.

 

[agent8]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie /forum/post/20627512


Technically yes ... however, the volume control may be tricky as you would have to deselect each room anytime you didn't want the main zone volume passing to those speakers, unlike with a Zone 2 connection which you can simply turn the whole Zone ON/OFF.

That is exactly how I am running my set up. I have a 4 zone speaker selector and I use the zone 2 to power the porch or switch to rears, front highs or garage speakers. Little work changing to zone 2 power but not too bad.

 

[lakersfreak]

I have my 3312 hooked up with Sony HX820. First issue (and this might be a TV issue) when I turn on my TV just to watch cable ( everything is hooked bia hdmi into receiever then one output into tv) my receiver turn on on its own and I have the receiever speakers active. I don't want this I want to use tv speakers when watching tv. I have the hdmi control off. Its annoying cause I have to turn off the receiver every time to get sound out of speakers. Second issue is that I've had to reset my router almost daily now since I've had the receiver. I know others have this isse as well and have said to completely stop any internet radio acrive. However it still does it after I've stopped internet radio activities. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

 

[konanpr]

I own a 2112 with a ps3 with hdmi control on, im noticing that the voices from the game are not being sent to the tv speakers when the reciever is on standby mode. The same thing happens when the reciever is on with my wdtv with files that have aac or flac audio.

 

[kyxapka]

Comment about the power, based on my personal experience, since there is a lot of questions related to”volume knob”, volume scale. As jds noted not all scales are programmed equal.


I am running Paradigm Reference Studio 60 V5., CC370, PDR12 and four in-ceiling Yamaha IW280.


The drop in power from 3803 to 2112 is noticeable. But that’s something I was expecting.

My listening area is in the great room in the house with open floor plan. Day time or in the evening when everyone is in the house I really have to up the volume. Even when there is no one in the house, the ambient noise gives hard time to AVR’s 90W. And I live on a quiet cul-de-sac with house backed up to the woods.


My previous Denon was 110 W. vs. 2112 90 W. That’s 18% difference. So, as an example, if I had to listen something at -17 on 3803, now I have to crank it up to -13 to hear Dora singing “I’m the Map!” The reason I picked this numbers, just because my kids know that they cannot go any higher than -17 when watching TV. Now they are asking me why it is not loud enough. Listening music using Direct or Pure Direct I have to go all the way up to almost 0, which I rarely approach with 3803. ( Calculation may not be exact, and volume scale maybe a little different from 3803)


However, at night when kids are finally in bed, no one mows their lawn; there is no any type of noise coming from the outside, except for crickets, 90W is plenty. My wife and I would sit to watch the movie and I actually have to monitor volume to make sure that it’s not too loud when kids are asleep.

I am thinking that I should have bought 3312 for my set up. It’s too late now. So, I’ll just wait couple of years till they sort out their CEC issues (yea, it doesn’t bother some, but it bothers me

) and then get new and improved version with more juice.

In no way I am saying that 90W is not enough. But for people in similar situation, without dedicated listening room in the house with open floor plan, running kids, burking dog on the street and whatever else may make any type of noise during day time, deciding between 2112, 2312 or 3312 I would advice to go with more power if money is not an object.


Talking about the sound quality, I can definitely tell the difference over 3803. I guess because of the Audyssey. I am using F. High. I did not do final set up yet. Just dropped the microphone in several spots to perform ruff calculations. (We are making some changes to the room)

Rock, blues, even classical music puts you in the orchestra pit. The sound separation between channels is much better. I can clearly hear dialog over the center speaker. Surround is not overly loud. Audyssey sets it just right. I was watching F1 this past weekend and on board shots sounded great, with clearly heard commentators over the central speaker. I did not have a chance to test run it with one of my favorite movies “Black Hawk Down”. IMHO if you close your eyes while this movie is on and cannot clearly imagine bullets crossing your room over your head, putting you in the middle of the fighting scenes, and you have no chills running down your spine, then you have to re-calibrate your system.


Now I am open to suggestions what movie to watch for DOLBY TrueHD.


Thanks.

 

[justjared]

I just purchased the 2112ci and its on its way. Was having a hard time choosing between the 2112ci vs 991 vs 3311ci, but had a hard time finding 3311 available, so my final choice was between the 991 and the 2112ci, and the price on the 2112ci was just too good to pass up. I have read quite a bit of the posts on this thread and im starting to get a little nervous. I just purchased the pl-89 home theater system to attach to this. they are 98db center and towers, and 96db for the surrounds/bookshelf. All 8 ohms. So ill be running a 5.1 system. My room is roughly 19'x23' and very open floor plan into the dining room and kitchen area. Also 8-10' ceiling (havent measured, just moved)... Is this going to be enough for those speakers and that size of a room?


My second question is I have a Samsung pn59d7000 plasma tv, a samsung bd-d6700 3d blu-ray player, a ps3, and a wii to hook up (everything with hdmi 1.4a cables except wii with regular component cables).... If the 2112ci will be sufficient for those speakers and room size, is there any issues I should be prepared for when connecting everything? I read something about disconnecting the anynet on the samsung tv? any and all help would be greatly appreciated. THanks

 

[kyxapka]

^^

I have similar set up, except for the BD player.


Setting it up is not a problem. Follow the instructions. Just plug everything in as it’s labeled on the back of the receiver and you good to go. I connected Wii to component and DVD coaxial audio. During source set up select component for DVD and you are set for Wii. Do not opt for Hide unused sources (or something like that) during the set up. It’ll delete TV and you lose option to stream audio from SmartTV. You can restore/delete any source in the Menu settings at any time. So it’s really not a big deal.


There is planty of information from jdsmoothie and batpig on this thread how to calibrate AVR using Audyssey, to get the best sound possible.


You can use optical, but I am still using Anynet for ARC. Don’t know if I’ll switch to optical anytime soon. I still want AVR to be an HDMI switcher instead of shifting this burden to the TV. Pass-though is not working as desired, also it works as design, which is not help. So I gave up on this option.


Don’t know about your listening habits, but you are not going to be disappointed with 90W. It would be nice to have more room, but that would cost you additional 300-400 dollars. Is it worth additional $300 or $400? Maybe. But for me at this point I used this money to buy material and install in-ceiling speakers and labor to fix/paint the damage from the installation. So it’s all balanced out for me.


Overall, with the exception of couple issues addressed in this thread, I am happy with my upgrade.

 

[mariob33]



Quote:
Originally Posted by kyxapka /forum/post/0


Comment about the power, based on my personal experience, since there is a lot of questions related to"volume knob", volume scale. As jds noted not all scales are programmed equal.


I am running Paradigm Reference Studio 60 V5., CC370, PDR12 and four in-ceiling Yamaha IW280.


The drop in power from 3803 to 2112 is noticeable. But that's something I was expecting.

My listening area is in the great room in the house with open floor plan. Day time or in the evening when everyone is in the house I really have to up the volume. Even when there is no one in the house, the ambient noise gives hard time to AVR's 90W. And I live on a quiet cul-de-sac with house backed up to the woods.


My previous Denon was 110 W. vs. 2112 90 W. That's 18% difference. So, as an example, if I had to listen something at -17 on 3803, now I have to crank it up to -13 to hear Dora singing "I'm the Map!" The reason I picked this numbers, just because my kids know that they cannot go any higher than -17 when watching TV. Now they are asking me why it is not loud enough. Listening music using Direct or Pure Direct I have to go all the way up to almost 0, which I rarely approach with 3803. ( Calculation may not be exact, and volume scale maybe a little different from 3803)


However, at night when kids are finally in bed, no one mows their lawn; there is no any type of noise coming from the outside, except for crickets, 90W is plenty. My wife and I would sit to watch the movie and I actually have to monitor volume to make sure that it's not too loud when kids are asleep.

I am thinking that I should have bought 3312 for my set up. It's too late now. So, I'll just wait couple of years till they sort out their CEC issues (yea, it doesn't bother some, but it bothers me

) and then get new and improved version with more juice.

In no way I am saying that 90W is not enough. But for people in similar situation, without dedicated listening room in the house with open floor plan, running kids, burking dog on the street and whatever else may make any type of noise during day time, deciding between 2112, 2312 or 3312 I would advice to go with more power if money is not an object.


Talking about the sound quality, I can definitely tell the difference over 3803. I guess because of the Audyssey. I am using F. High. I did not do final set up yet. Just dropped the microphone in several spots to perform ruff calculations. (We are making some changes to the room)

Rock, blues, even classical music puts you in the orchestra pit. The sound separation between channels is much better. I can clearly hear dialog over the center speaker. Surround is not overly loud. Audyssey sets it just right. I was watching F1 this past weekend and on board shots sounded great, with clearly heard commentators over the central speaker. I did not have a chance to test run it with one of my favorite movies "Black Hawk Down". IMHO if you close your eyes while this movie is on and cannot clearly imagine bullets crossing your room over your head, putting you in the middle of the fighting scenes, and you have no chills running down your spine, then you have to re-calibrate your system.


Now I am open to suggestions what movie to watch for DOLBY TrueHD.


Thanks.

Are you listening with dynamic eq on and which setting for dyn volume? Try the options under dyn volume. I use day for most tv watching and find i rarely bring my volume greater than -25. As a matter of fact any higher and the wife give me the turn it down look. My room is not dedicated and abuts the kitchen/eating area with kids and two dogs going constantly. The 20 watt difference should realistically be cancelled out by the improved sound the XT brings. However, I recall when I first transitioned to the 4810 from a 4308 that I felt the same a you until I tweaked the heck out of my unit. The old Denon were truly beasts.

 

[deepstang]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie /forum/post/20422026


47. Surround Speaker Placement/Wire Connections: With a 5.0 or 5.1 setup, the surround speakers are considered "side" surrounds and should be connected to the speaker posts labeled "Surround" and ideally be placed about 2'-3' above seated ear height and within 90-110 degrees from the main listening position (ie. to the "sides" of the main listening position and NOT the rear). When you add a 2nd set of surrounds in a 7.0 or 7.1 setup, or "rear" surrounds, they should be connected to the "Surr Back/Amp Assign" speaker posts and also ideally placed about 2'-3' above seated ear height and about 3' directly behind the main listening position. See the Dolby Digital website here for more information. Note: If you only have a 5.0/5.1 setup and the surround speakers are already wired in the rear, then you must still connect those speakers to the "side" SURROUND speaker posts as this is the proper setup for a 5.0/5.1 setup.

JD, I am so impressed with how you update this thread daily. That set-up/FAQ section is AWESOME!!


I wanted to ask about 5.1 systems implementing PLiiZ. I would assume that the "height speakers" will be plugged into the rear surround ("Surr Back/Amp Assign") jacks, and than activated via the GUI.


BTW, I will be using the 2112ci with the described surround behind the listener scenario.

 

[rynberg]



Quote:
Originally Posted by benalexe /forum/post/0



Another related question can you put an input as HDMI and an output as component. EX. Connect the cable box and apple tv to the avr via HDMI. then output to the tv in component. And is this a better option than trying to use a DVI port on my 7 year old Mits 65" rptv with the hdmi / dvi adapter?

Why would you do this? Just run everything HDMI and use a HDMI-DVI cable. (I own a Mits 55813)

 

[Shanndogg]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanndogg /forum/post/20626641


Tried i/p scaler on/off and game video mode and every combination therein. Same problem. Horrible looking menus, with video conversion off it looks fine. Same thing when switching the Boxee around to different HDMI inputs. I am checking my other inputs with DTV, Xbox, etc. to see if I notice the problem there as well, or if it's only with the Boxee. Any other suggestions/theories?

I have attached a picture of the same menu with video conversion off so you can see there is a big difference. Clearly the 2312 is majorly degrading the video for some reason. Since you guys are experts, do you think I have a faulty unit, or is Denon to blame here?


My understanding of the video conversion feature is that it will convert analog/component sources to output through HDMI as well as HDMI to a higher output (eg. 720p in to 1080p out). So why then does it automatically default to video conversion for every source even if I am doing HDMI in to HDMI out?


Even worse, why would it degrade the picture so horribly? Shouldn't it just pass through a HDMI signal to the TV that can obviously accept it? I would have no problem just turning the video conversion off, but why does that effect the Denon Menu (no longer overlays the video)? It makes no sense.


Now, after seeing the horrible picture degradation from Boxee, I am obviously concerned that it is manipulating the rest of my sources. So far I have only been able to watch/test a little bit of Directv and Xbox and there doesn't seem to be any degradation which is strange as the Boxee is blatantly obvious so I would have expected similar from all sources. Could the Boxee be putting out some "weird" type of 1080p signal the Denon doesn't like (if it is that really makes no sense either)?


I can't believe that in 2011 a $850 receiver (not what I paid for it thank God) can't do a simple thing as pass an untouched HDMI signal. I have been a Denon guy for 16 years (the 2312 is my 4th Denon receiver). I love the Denon sound, but I am very disappointed and frustrated. Please let me know your thoughts on my situation and the poor video conversion this receiver is doing.

 

[ccotenj]

re: power.


on a correctly calibrated avr, the "power difference" won't show up as "needing to turn it up louder"...


so something else is causing the op to have to turn it up...

 

[Shanndogg]

^ Forgot to add that even though I had the 2112 for a short time, I do not believe it degraded the picture of Boxee like the 2312. If that helps in accessing the problem at all.

 

[mariob33]



Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang /forum/post/0



JD, I am so impressed with how you update this thread daily. That set-up/FAQ section is AWESOME!!


I wanted to ask about 5.1 systems implementing PLiiZ. I would assume that the "height speakers" will be plugged into the rear surround ("Surr Back/Amp Assign") jacks, and than activated via the GUI.


BTW, I will be using the 2112ci with the described surround behind the listener scenario.

Not JD but yes. You would on the 2112 use the surr back/ amp assign and set fheights during auto setup.

 

[justjared]

You can use optical, but I am still using Anynet for ARC. Don't know if I'll switch to optical anytime soon. I still want AVR to be an HDMI switcher instead of shifting this burden to the TV. Pass-though is not working as desired, also it works as design, which is not help. So I gave up on this option.




^^

I cant say I truly understand Anynet and ARC.... I have seen in plenty of posts that its an issue with Samsung tvs and this reciever but what does it actually mean? If I shut anynet off it fixes it? but then what are the consequences without using anynet?


I too would like to have all my sources out of the reciever so I can use that to switch between sources, not the tv...


I would have everything connected hdmi 1.4a so wouldnt optical be a downgrade? sorry if that is a stupid comment just having a difficult time understanding the concept.


Also for the 2112ci what would be a good cable to use to connect the pl-200 subwoofer?

 

[Kalani]

Quote:

Originally Posted by justjared You can use optical, but I am still using Anynet for ARC. Don’t know if I’ll switch to optical anytime soon. I still want AVR to be an HDMI switcher instead of shifting this burden to the TV. Pass-though is not working as desired, also it works as design, which is not help. So I gave up on this option. ^^ I cant say I truly understand Anynet and ARC.... I have seen in plenty of posts that its an issue with Samsung tvs and this reciever but what does it actually mean? If I shut anynet off it fixes it? but then what are the consequences without using anynet? I too would like to have all my sources out of the reciever so I can use that to switch between sources, not the tv... I would have everything connected hdmi 1.4a so wouldnt optical be a downgrade? sorry if that is a stupid comment just having a difficult time understanding the concept. Also for the 2112ci what would be a good cable to use to connect the pl-200 subwoofer?

It all depends on your source.


Optical is a downgrade only if your source is Blu-ray, or some other lossless audio source like from an HTPC (an unusual one that supports lossless audio). Otherwise it carries a full dolby digital/DTS 5.1 signal no problem. Recall that, until HDMI and Blu-ray came around, Optical and Coax were the best possible connections from DVD players, which offered the best possible audio at the time.


To my knowledge (Definitely with DirecTV, and I'm pretty sure re others, too), there is no cable/satellite/TV tuner currently in existence that outputs an audio streams that is too complex to be carried... in full... over an optical cable. It's all compressed to fit over the cable/satellite/OTA stream, and doesn't require the bandwidth that the full uncompressed audio streams from a Blu-Ray needs HDMI's extra capacity for. So if your source is some form of television or DVR, there is no "downgrade" is using a separate, non-HDMI audio connection.


So HDMI is a "cleaner" connection in that you only need one wire to carry everything, but from a quality standpoint, only Blu-ray (and similar) actually NEED HDMI to carry their full signal.