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500-2000Hz is thought to be a range that is a) largely free of dominant location dependent low frequency response deviations and b) still results in a good match of SPL and perceived loudness.
I believe Nyal Mellor made a similar recommendation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,242 ·
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Discussion Starter · #5,243 ·
View attachment 3142776

My Fronts are Triton Reference towers with LFE used as .1 and crossed @ 90Hz. Is it normal to have 47ms delay between the LFE and the full range of the same speaker?
It appears that when subtracting the 47ms all other speaker delays are on par with the distance to MLP.
Something is substantially wrong here. Did you place sub 1/2 in the garden where you're having some kind of open air concert? :)
 

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Something is substantially wrong here. Did you place sub 1/2 in the garden where you're having some kind of open air concert? :)
Obviously I didn't move anything and I never checked the distances until just now since Jerry posted his screenshot so I don't have a Dirac reference for my own system right now. It sounds like normal which I think is great so I will check again when I do the next calibration however not sure when that will be.
 

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3142807


Just reinstalled 3.0.14 and loaded an old project. It gives the same odd readings. Internal phase thinghy within my mains or a StormAudio feature;) I don't know but it sounds great
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,246 ·
View attachment 3142807

Just reinstalled 3.0.14 and loaded an old project. It gives the same odd readings. Internal phase thinghy within my mains or a StormAudio feature;) I don't know but it sounds great
Make and model of those 5 subs?
 

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Make and model of those 5 subs?
Sub 1 and 2 are integrated in the Goldenear triton reference and so same as front left and right respectively. Sub 3 and 5 are b&w db1's and sub 4 is a.b&w db1d. So at least there is consistency on subs 1 and 2 because they both measure 0 delay. They are placed 4.3mtr from mlp in the Golden triangle 80cm from side and front wall. The db1's are behind me left corner, mid wall and right corner
 

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Just looked at an old denon 8500 multeq audyssey cal and it put those front subs at 7.5 meters and the speakers itself at 4.2mtr which is the correct distance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,249 ·
Sub 1 and 2 are integrated in the Goldenear triton reference and so same as front left and right respectively. Sub 3 and 5 are b&w db1's and sub 4 is a.b&w db1d. So at least there is consistency on subs 1 and 2 because they both measure 0 delay. They are placed 4.3mtr from mlp in the Golden triangle 80cm from side and front wall. The db1's are behind me left corner, mid wall and right corner
The Goldenear's built-in DSP could explain the excessive delay. The high sub trim values is something you would need to address when running a DL calibration.
 
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The Goldenear's built-in DSP could explain the excessive delay. The high sub trim values is something you would need to address when running a DL calibration.
I ran those speakers at Large with my denon and I put the sub gain to match which is about 11 o clock on the dial. I need to turn that down now I set the speakers at small, is what you are saying?
Would it differ much? And why?
Another question is why does one want all crossovers to be the same? So as to not cross L+R @90 and C @70?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,251 ·
I ran those speakers at Large with my denon and I put the sub gain to match which is about 11 o clock on the dial. I need to turn that down now I set the speakers at small, is what you are saying?
Would it differ much? And why?
Set all speakers to small to get the full benefits of multiple optimized subwoofers.

Another question is why does one want all crossovers to be the same? So as to not cross L+R @90 and C @70?
Choosing the same crossover frequency ensures there's no phase issues in the summed subwoofer channel and between adjacent speaker channels.

I'm planning to write a short summary on bass management as the topic isn't really well understood. Even amongst manufacturers.
 

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Set all speakers to small to get the full benefits of multiple optimized subwoofers.



Choosing the same crossover frequency ensures there's no phase issues in the summed subwoofer channel and between adjacent speaker channels.

I'm planning to write a short summary on bass management as the topic isn't really well understood. Even amongst manufacturers.
Currently I run all my speakers small like Dirac sets it. I just changed the corssover from 70 to 90 Hz on the mains but left my Center at 70Hz crossover. I now recalculated my project with the center also crossed at 90 Hz. It felt a bit like a waste of the reference center speaker because it can easily be set as a Large speaker but setting it at 70 or even 90 Hz like the L+R seems like I don't use the full potential of that speaker anymore. But I get it and set the Center cross the same as the L+R cross.

So what I was saying is that with my old Denon I set my L+R as Large and gain matched my built in subs. That old gain match is too high now that I set the L+R to small on the StormAudio using Dirac.

So again the same question: Why would I need to address the sub trim values? Does the sub become better when the trim is set differently? Or is that something you will cover in your short summary on bass management?
 

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X-Over observation.
HTP-1 and DLBC 3.1
Late to the party, sorry.

Like some other posts, I have L and R that don't start to roll off until twenty something Hz... Running Dirac 3.1 identifies them as "large" as expected... It did the same for my center. (which starts rolling off in the 30s)

My other base level speakers were identified as "small", but also as I would expect my SVS Prime Elevations were crossed over higher than my Paradigm Studio Reference speakers... Elevations were set at 70 and surrounds, and backs were set at 60.

Since I just replaced my SB2k pros with SB16 Ultras, I wanted them working a little harder LOL.

I looked at the configuration page on Pink Soda's alternate HTP-1 control...

Beautifully marked right there that you must disable or bypass DIRAC BC in order to change your xovers.

I hit disable, set LCR to small, gave L&R 40Hz, and C 60Hz.
I then left the rest of my base layer at 60 and set my Elevations at 90.

Switched Dirac BC back on and tada!
Sounds exactly the way I wanted.

Pink Soda's interface does say that you should run configuration again for best results, so the next day I did.
It did not mess with the crossover settings I had put in and everything sounds the best it has yet.

So... If your crossovers are different than you want, look at your frequency response measurements (either from Dirac or REW) and set the crossovers somewhere above your roll-off point for each speaker set... Then calibrate again.
 

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Beautifully marked right there that you must disable or bypass DIRAC BC in order to change your xovers.

I hit disable, set LCR to small, gave L&R 40Hz, and C 60Hz.
I then left the rest of my base layer at 60 and set my Elevations at 90.

Switched Dirac BC back on and tada!
Sounds exactly the way I wanted.
I don't think I am understanding what you are saying. When you switch off Dirac BC, you are setting crossovers in the HTP-1 hardware. There settings have nothing to do with the crossovers that are in Dirac BC. When you switch Dirac BC back on, you revert to the crossovers set in the software, and bypass the crossovers you just set in the HTP-1.

How could it sound exactly like you want it to sound if you really haven't changed anything?
 

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Did you verify the delays are really off by comparing IR peaks in REW?
Not using REW, but looking at the impulse response screen in Dirac reveals something terribly wrong:

3142946


Here is what a "good" impulse response looks like:



3142947



I have submitted to Dirac Support for their comments. I have not had the time to run a fresh calibration to see if the bad results are a one-time anomaly.
 

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I don't think I am understanding what you are saying. When you switch off Dirac BC, you are setting crossovers in the HTP-1 hardware. There settings have nothing to do with the crossovers that are in Dirac BC. When you switch Dirac BC back on, you revert to the crossovers set in the software, and bypass the crossovers you just set in the HTP-1.

How could it sound exactly like you want it to sound if you really haven't changed anything?
I can't be certain but ... The crossover settings seem to remain... Don't forget Dirac must work together with your processor... It's why you have to pick what you are using in order to even run Dirac... The availability of DLBC for the HTP-1 was what put the HTP-1 over the edge when I was on the fence between it, the RMC-1L, and the AVM 70... (I didn't know at the time that it wasn't quite ready LOL)

The processor and the software work together. If you set the speakers to small and customize the xover points in the HTP-1, then run Dirac it seems to use your values. It is not independent of your processor. (if it was you could run it on anything)
 

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I can't be certain but ... The crossover settings seem to remain... Don't forget Dirac must work together with your processor... It's why you have to pick what you are using in order to even run Dirac... The availability of DLBC for the HTP-1 was what put the HTP-1 over the edge when I was on the fence between it, the RMC-1L, and the AVM 70... (I didn't know at the time that it wasn't quite ready LOL)

The processor and the software work together. If you set the speakers to small and customize the xover points in the HTP-1, then run Dirac it seems to use your values. It is not independent of your processor. (if it was you could run it on anything)
Sorry, not correct. The crossovers in the processor are completely independent of the crossovers set by Dirac. Try this:

  • Turn Dirac BC off.
  • Set crossovers in the HTP-1.
  • Launch Dirac and load your project.
  • Proceed to the filter design screen and make sure Option 2 is selected (DLBC On).
  • Observe the crossovers in Dirac. Are they the same as the ones you set in the HTP-1?
 

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Hi Gang,

I have a Behringer NX6000 powering my two rear 15" Marty Cube subs.

The amp has as Crossover switch (LF / fullrange / HF). It is set at fullrange. Should I use LF or HF instead and if I change the setting will it have a dramatic affect on the sound?

Be kind guys...I may be sensitive to too much jocularity!
 

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Sorry, not correct. The crossovers in the processor are completely independent of the crossovers set by Dirac. Try this:

  • Turn Dirac BC off.
  • Set crossovers in the HTP-1.
  • Launch Dirac and load your project.
  • Proceed to the filter design screen and make sure Option 2 is selected (DLBC On).
  • Observe the crossovers in Dirac. Are they the same as the ones you set in the HTP-1?
Sorry about the image quality... Top two are the elevation speakers, next is the same for surround and back, and the bottom is LCR
The only difference from what I set in Htp1 is 4hz delta on the top front and 6hz on the top back...

Before I made those changes it was 70 on all... And identified as large for most of the speakers.

So it did not keep exactly what I put in but it was REALLY close. Too close to be coincidence.
3142994
 

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Sorry about the image quality... Top two are the elevation speakers, next is the same for surround and back, and the bottom is LCR
The only difference from what I set in Htp1 is 4hz delta on the top front and 6hz on the top back...

Before I made those changes it was 70 on all... And identified as large for most of the speakers.

So it did not keep exactly what I put in but it was REALLY close. Too close to be coincidence.
I don't understand what there screen images are supposed to prove.

You don't have to take my word for how crossovers with DLBC work. Perhaps one of the other knowledgeable thread participants will express an opinion. The difference between processor-set crossovers and crossovers set in DLBC is a fundamental concept that needs clarity.
 
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