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I don't understand what there screen images are supposed to prove.

You don't have to take my word for how crossovers with DLBC work. Perhaps one of the other knowledgeable thread participants will express an opinion. The difference between processor-set crossovers and crossovers set in DLBC is a fundamental concept that needs clarity.
Just showing where my crossover points ended up AFTER I changed the configuration in HTP-1.

I literally ran nothing else different 24 hours earlier and the x-over points were different.

The POINT is that I did EXACTLY step by step what you suggested I do.
 

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The POINT is that I did EXACTLY step by step what you suggested I do.
I don't think so. Let's try a different approach.

Load your project into Dirac, proceed to the filter design page, select Option 2, and then press the Calculate button. After it finishes calculating the filters, you will be presented a screen that shows the corrected response curve along with the crossovers Dirac suggests, typically 70Hz. Save the project. Exit Dirac, and proceed to the Speakers page in the processor. The "Dirac on BC" should be enabled. Select the "Dirac Bypass" or "Dirac Off" option, which will allow you to set crossover values in the processor. As a test, set crossover values significantly different than the ones that Dirac set, say 100Hz. Now load Dirac again, load the project file you saved, amd proceed once again to the filter design page. Make sure Option 2 is selected. What crossover values do you see--70Hz or 100Hz? I'll wger that the crossovers are still showing 70Hz, which would prove my point that Dirac, when set to BC On, ignores crossover values set in the processor.

It would really be nice if there were others who would corroborate what I am saying.
 

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I don't think so. Let's try a different approach.

Load your project into Dirac, proceed to the filter design page, select Option 2, and then press the Calculate button. After it finishes calculating the filters, you will be presented a screen that shows the corrected response curve along with the crossovers Dirac suggests, typically 70Hz. Save the project. Exit Dirac, and proceed to the Speakers page in the processor. The "Dirac on BC" should be enabled. Click the "Bass management off" option, which will allow you to set crossover values in the processor. As a test, set crossover values significantly different than the ones that Dirac set, say 100Hz. Now load Dirc again, load the project file you saved, amd proceed once again to the filter design page. Make sure Option 2 is selected. What crossover values do you see--70Hz or 100Hz? I'll wger that the crossovers are still showing 70Hz, which would prove my point that Dirac, when set to BC On, ignores crossover values set in the processor.

It would really be nice if there were others who would corroborate what I am saying.
LOL, Well I have poured a tall drink and have my feet up (for about 12 minutes at a time) listening to records for the remainder of my evening now, but I am up for another calibration session maybe on the weekend.

By then my subs will have several hours on them and be ready for a fresh set of measurements.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,265 · (Edited)
X-Over observation.
HTP-1 and DLBC 3.1
Late to the party, sorry.

Like some other posts, I have L and R that don't start to roll off until twenty something Hz... Running Dirac 3.1 identifies them as "large" as expected... It did the same for my center. (which starts rolling off in the 30s)

My other base level speakers were identified as "small", but also as I would expect my SVS Prime Elevations were crossed over higher than my Paradigm Studio Reference speakers... Elevations were set at 70 and surrounds, and backs were set at 60.

Since I just replaced my SB2k pros with SB16 Ultras, I wanted them working a little harder LOL.

I looked at the configuration page on Pink Soda's alternate HTP-1 control...

Beautifully marked right there that you must disable or bypass DIRAC BC in order to change your xovers.

I hit disable, set LCR to small, gave L&R 40Hz, and C 60Hz.
I then left the rest of my base layer at 60 and set my Elevations at 90.

Switched Dirac BC back on and tada!
Sounds exactly the way I wanted.

Pink Soda's interface does say that you should run configuration again for best results, so the next day I did.
It did not mess with the crossover settings I had put in and everything sounds the best it has yet.

So... If your crossovers are different than you want, look at your frequency response measurements (either from Dirac or REW) and set the crossovers somewhere above your roll-off point for each speaker set... Then calibrate again.
DL does not read or even use the crossover of the AVR when "Upmix Only" or "Full Bass Optimisation" is selected. Please follow the references in post 1 for a more detailed description..
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,266 ·
Not using REW, but looking at the impulse response screen in Dirac reveals something terribly wrong:

View attachment 3142946

Here is what a "good" impulse response looks like:



View attachment 3142947


I have submitted to Dirac Support for their comments. I have not had the time to run a fresh calibration to see if the bad results are a one-time anomaly.
Not sure what I'm looking at. You also need to separate the IR's.
 

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I just couldn’t wait for the projector to experience the atmos sound of my recently upgraded T787 (vm300 am230). I installed the windows atmos access app on my laptop, put it in to source 1, and played some demos. It was great. I grabbed my wife and the dog, and we all sat on the couch for a quick 1 minute demo called “leaf”. Not only were we impressed, but my 2 yr old Doberman was looking all around at every sound. Up, left, right, behind. He was genuinely shocked and a confused like he heard a ghost (poor guy). I’ll video it next time lol. Incredible! It was all the confirmation I needed. Better than a big theater bc it’s calibrated perfectly for our seats. I’m so grateful to have this. 18 months ago I saw a great deal on speakers and decided to start the journey of building an atmos home theater. I had never heard of NAD before, but stumbled onto used t787 and did some research on what it would take to become a modern avr powerhouse. I’m so glad I did. Installing 8 in-wall and in-ceiling speakers with wires, plus hdmi, subwoofer cables, and LAN line into existing construction is no joke. I also got a great deal on a powered retractable screen and installed that. With the projector next week, my total investment is about $5500 for what I estimate to be MSRP and installation cost of well over $20k. I did good, and I can’t wait for the projector. My only wish is that I did it sooner so we had it for “lockdown”, but we will have many years to enjoy it. This is a great community and I thank you all for your guidance, and I’m glad to be of service when I can.
 

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As a heads up, I've read elsewhere that managing multiple MiniDSPs from a single computer is messy. Not sure what the best work-around is. Maybe using one computer per MiniDSP. Maybe the MiniDSP wifi adapter helps.
If you are only using one configuration on each, you can put MiniDSP 1 on configuration 1 and MiniDSP 2 on configuration 2.
 

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** Man of Leisure **
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Not sure what I'm looking at. You also need to separate the IR's.
OK, this is the best I can do. My left and right speakers are equidistant from the MLP, and the measurement mic is placed as close as possible to the center between the two speakers. In a "good" Dirac calibration, the left and right measured impulse responses will look like this, which is exactly what we would expect, i.e. the impulse responses are identically positioned.:

3143174


The other day I reported a "bad" calibration. The left and right measured impulse responses looked like this:

3143175


Since the mic placement was the same, I would expect the impulses to align as they did with the "good" calibration. Yet, for some reason, Dirac is seeing a significant distance difference between the left and right speakers and, as a result, it sets delays to correct for the distance difference:

3143176


Clearly something went wrong during the measurement, and I am trying to understand what might have caused it. Others have suggested that something going on with the laptop might have caused it. Care to make a guess?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,270 ·
OK, this is the best I can do. My left and right speakers are equidistant from the MLP, and the measurement mic is placed as close as possible to the center between the two speakers. In a "good" Dirac calibration, the left and right measured impulse responses will look like this, which is exactly what we would expect, i.e. the impulse responses are identically positioned.:

View attachment 3143174

The other day I reported a "bad" calibration. The left and right measured impulse responses looked like this:

View attachment 3143175

Since the mic placement was the same, I would expect the impulses to align as they did with the "good" calibration. Yet, for some reason, Dirac is seeing a significant distance difference between the left and right speakers and, as a result, it sets delays to correct for the distance difference:

View attachment 3143176

Clearly something went wrong during the measurement, and I am trying to understand what might have caused it. Others have suggested that something going on with the laptop might have caused it. Care to make a guess?
I meant check "measured", "corrected" and "Separate curves" to examine what DL did when I said "You also need to separate the IR's". Or, do a IR overlay in REW (don't forget the timing signal)...
 

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I meant check "measured", "corrected" and "Separate curves" to examine what DL did when I said "You also need to separate the IR's". Or, do a IR overlay in REW (don't forget the timing signal)...
So showing the Measured impulse response that Dirac sees the left and right speakers are at a different distance is not proof that something is going wrong?

And it must be frustrating to you that a response is not what you asked for. If you had been more specific in your original request, you would have received exactly what you asked for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,272 ·
So showing the Measured impulse response that Dirac sees the left and right speakers are at a different distance is not proof that something is going wrong?
It is but I'd like to get the whole picture. Maybe you've simply selected the wrong mic 😬

And it must be frustrating to you that a response is not what you asked for. If you had been more specific in your original request, you would have received exactly what you asked for.
You've looked at the UI how often? How many hours did you spend on writing guides and answering people's questions about IR peak alignment? And when I say "You also need to separate the IR's" then this is not specific enough for you? Anyhow, my last post was specific enough, no?
 

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:rolleyes:. tough thread - I'm afraid to ask anything lol
 

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:rolleyes:. tough thread - I'm afraid to ask anything lol
OK, this is the best I can do. My left and right speakers are equidistant from the MLP, and the measurement mic is placed as close as possible to the center between the two speakers. In a "good" Dirac calibration, the left and right measured impulse responses will look like this, which is exactly what we would expect, i.e. the impulse responses are identically positioned.:



The other day I reported a "bad" calibration. The left and right measured impulse responses looked like this:

View attachment 3143175
Clearly something went wrong during the measurement, and I am trying to understand what might have caused it. Others have suggested that something going on with the laptop might have caused it. Care to make a guess?
There does not have to be an explanation for everything...Many times, in Windows, doing exactly the same action twice yields different results, why is that so? why does restarting my computer "fixes" problems that happen erratically and without any explanation? there is a reason, for sure. I suspect the "genetic" algorithm implemented into DiracLive led to a mutation. If that mutation does not make the sound better to you ears, natural selection (or yourself) will eliminate it.
 

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There does not have to be an explanation for everything...Many times, in Windows, doing exactly the same action twice yields different results, why is that so? why does restarting my computer "fixes" problems that happen erratically and without any explanation? there is a reason, for sure. I suspect the "genetic" algorithm implemented into DiracLive led to a mutation. If that mutation does not make the sound better to you ears, natural selection (or yourself) will eliminate it.
When you have a product written over decades by 10s of thousands of programmers for billions of different customers and their conflicting requirements, the product ends up a bit schizophrenic.
 

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Hello everybody I have recently acquired a bass control license and I have put my two subwoofer on outputs 13 and 14 of my arcam, when putting those outputs and trying to measure with REW I have not been able to because they do not exist, I have seen people who measure it but I do not know how to assign those canames in REW. I have installed ASIO4ALL and the latest version of REW, how can I measure the two subs? Thank you
 

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Hello everybody I have recently acquired a bass control license and I have put my two subwoofer on outputs 13 and 14 of my arcam, when putting those outputs and trying to measure with REW I have not been able to because they do not exist, I have seen people who measure it but I do not know how to assign those canames in REW. I have installed ASIO4ALL and the latest version of REW, how can I measure the two subs? Thank you
I’m 99% sure this is an REW limitation. It can only output sound to a base layer 7.1 system. To put it another way, it doesn’t know about anything else like Atmos or front wide channels as an example. You won’t see more sub channels available to REW just because your processor has them.

I have a platform twin of the Arcam but haven’t taken detailed measurements. I’m speculating as I have not done this myself yet, but I have configured 4 subs to work with DLBC. However, I’d expect the Arcam to route the .1 channel to all mapped sub channels. Did you go into the speaker setup and disable the “subwoofer” channel and then set CH13/14 to one of the sub options? Shouldn’t matter if they’re set to front or rear subs.
 
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I’m 99% sure this is an REW limitation. It can only output sound to a base layer 7.1 system. To put it another way, it doesn’t know about anything else like Atmos or front wide channels as an example. You won’t see more sub channels available to REW just because your processor has them.
I don't think this is a REW issue, I'm pretty sure it the AVR/Processor not supporting more than 8 channels over HDMI.

The HDMI 2.0 spec supports up to 32 channels so there's no technical limitation, I understand some recent PC video cards can output all of them if the other end supports it & advertises it in the HDMI EDID.

Shame as it would be great to drive all the channels discretely, use the AVR/Processor as a multichannel DAC :cool:

I may have to try a hack with my Vertex2 and see if it magically works, doubt it.
 

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Hello everybody I have recently acquired a bass control license and I have put my two subwoofer on outputs 13 and 14 of my arcam, when putting those outputs and trying to measure with REW I have not been able to because they do not exist, I have seen people who measure it but I do not know how to assign those canames in REW. I have installed ASIO4ALL and the latest version of REW, how can I measure the two subs? Thank you
REW supports measurements of the LFE channel by selecting HDMI4. I would think that sending the measurement sweep to HDMI4 would send the sweep to the combined subs. Also, when sending a measurement sweep to a main speaker, say the center channel, bass management should route the low frequencies to the sub channel. To isolate the subs by themselves, disconnect the center channel speaker wire. Both of these approaches work with my HTP-1 for my 4-sub configuration using DLBC.
 
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