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My replacement in ceilings will be these killer 8's:D



And no bigger :p
I'm thinking of retrofitting my basement man cave to incorporate four 18" subwoofers as my ceiling speakers.

Will this provide enough bass? :)
 
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I'm thinking of retrofitting my basement man cave to incorporate four 18" subwoofers as my ceiling speakers.

Will this provide enough bass? :)
They're probably too small for Atmos top speakers. Look at 21s or 24s. If you could array them that would be even better.
 
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Best Denon 4200w Atmos speaker placement 3.1.4 or 5.1.2 ?

Not sure where to post this but need some input. I want to get the Denon 4200 but I have never seen or heard an Atmos display. My room is 12w x 15d and missing 2 walls in an open floor plan. The back of the sofa will be 5' from my imaginary back wall (actually there is no wall since it's adjacent to the foyer area). See pic



Will I miss anything significant from the rear speakers if I choose 3.1.4?

If the forum thinks 5.1.2 is a better idea, then I will have to fabricate some telescoping or folding speaker mounts for the right rear speaker to avoid collision when running out the front door.:p

Thanks
 

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Commercial Atmos Question. I could not find a commercial Atmos thread. Please direct me there if it exists.

What happens in a commercial Atmos Theater when a non Atmos movie is played?

For example I watched Spectre a few days ago in an AMC Prime theater that has Atmos. Since Spectre is not in Atmos it was obviously not being played natively in Atmos.

Is there a DSU equivalent for the commercial side? Can any movie be unmixed in real time? I know the capabilities of Atmos on the commercial side are far greater than the home theater counterpart in regards to processing sounds and sending them to the appropriate speaker. I asked the dude manning the AMC Prime guest services booth and he was beyond clueless with zero knowledge.
I asked the same question on this forum a while back & was told they play it back in it's intended format (was Spectre 5.1?). If that's the case it would be played back in 5.1

However, @ the couple of Atmos theaters I've been to it sure sounds like they upmix to me. I saw Spectre @ the prime as well... it definitely sounded like sounds were coming from up above. It's really hard to tell though since the surrounds are high up as well.

I remember seeing Ex Machina @ the ICON theater's Atmos room, @ the waterfall scene it really sounded like the water was coming from up above.

As for Spectre...How about that opening title sequence? The black levels & that giant fireball at the end of the sequence made me feel like the theater went up in flames for a second there!
 

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@Ricoflashback. I was in much the same situation as you. I have a full 7.x.6 speaker layout installed, yet I was unable to pull the trigger on a 3-D audio receiver because the price to get a minimal 7.x.4 was in the range of $1800 and I'm sure the next 2 years will bring 7.x.8 (where the front wides are effects speakers rather than bed speakers). I just bought a Denon X3200W on one of the Fry's one-day promo code sales (3 different sales so far). The cost was easy to eat for 2 years. It's 5.1.2 capability is good enough to allow use of DSU, and since most movies I watch are streaming at 5.1, a minimal DSU is more than adequate. I figure that by the time "regular people" AVR's with 7.2.8 capability are available, there will be a lot of Atmos/DTS 4K Bluray discs available and mayby even available from Netflix mailers. Also, there may be streaming 3-D audio available. Meanwhile, I'm not just waiting for the next big thing.
 

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Not so sure about ATMOS

Yesterday, I heard ATMOS for the first time at a high end audio/video dealer. It was a 5.2.4 system. I listened to both the ATMOS demo, which contained exerts of movies and music. I subsequently listened to a 5.1 setup with a high end processor. The executive summary is that Kal Rubinson's comment about music with ATMOS having an inappropriate ambiance was simply too kind. It was bazaar and outright gimmicky. Also, I was not impressed with the sound effects from the height channels as you can get a similar or equally satisfying effect with your rear channels elevated over the seating area in the rear. In addition, it was the quality of the signal from the high end system that trumped the signal from the height channels. The lesson I learned is that the sound one gets from a 5.1 or 7.1 system from a high end processor is a better purchase than a ATMOS sound from a mediocre processor. For me ATMOS is another gimmick for movie addicts and has no benefits for music. It is something I can live without. :( You can too. Invest in good electronics not gimmicks. ;)
 

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Yesterday, I heard ATMOS for the first time at a high end audio/video dealer. It was a 5.2.4 system.......ATMOS is another gimmick for movie addicts and has no benefits for music. It is something I can live without. :( You can too. invest in good electronics not gimmicks. ;)
Thanks for your assessment, since I only use the AVR for movies. :)
 

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@Ricoflashback. I was in much the same situation as you. I have a full 7.x.6 speaker layout installed, yet I was unable to pull the trigger on a 3-D audio receiver because the price to get a minimal 7.x.4 was in the range of $1800 and I'm sure the next 2 years will bring 7.x.8 (where the front wides are effects speakers rather than bed speakers). I just bought a Denon X3200W on one of the Fry's one-day promo code sales (3 different sales so far). The cost was easy to eat for 2 years. It's 5.1.2 capability is good enough to allow use of DSU, and since most movies I watch are streaming at 5.1, a minimal DSU is more than adequate. I figure that by the time "regular people" AVR's with 7.2.8 capability are available, there will be a lot of Atmos/DTS 4K Bluray discs available and mayby even available from Netflix mailers. Also, there may be streaming 3-D audio available. Meanwhile, I'm not just waiting for the next big thing.
Hey Ted and Rick,

Obviously we all have to live within our budgets. For many or most, 7.1.4 just isn't possible for various reasons. The catch-22 is what you eluded to. A lot of people are waiting to go to 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 after price drops. They constantly say they'll just wait 2 years until prices come down. The catch is that by the time things are affordable 1) you've wasted 2 years without being able to enjoy atmos/immersive and 2) by then 7.1.8, or whatever next iteration is, is already out. You will constantly be purchasing way behind current technologies with the best immersive experience.

We all wish we could have more and the best. But for me, I chose to live with lesser speakers and be able to support 7.2.4 now. I can slowly upgrade from low-cost drivers over the course of years and still have full Atmos immersive enjoyment right now.
 

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Yesterday, I heard ATMOS for the first time at a high end audio/video dealer. It was a 5.2.4 system. I listened to both the ATMOS demo, which contained exerts of movies and music. I subsequently listened to a 5.1 setup with a high end processor. The executive summary is that Kal Rubinson's comment about music with ATMOS having an inappropriate ambiance was simply too kind. It was bazaar and outright gimmicky. Also, I was not impressed with the sound effects from the height channels as you can get a similar or equally satisfying effect with your rear channels elevated over the seating area in the rear. In addition, it was the quality of the signal from the high end system that trumped the signal from the height channels. The lesson I learned is that the sound one gets from a 5.1 or 7.1 system from a high end processor is a better purchase than a ATMOS sound from a mediocre processor. For me ATMOS is another gimmick for movie addicts and has no benefits for music. It is something I can live without. :( You can too. invest in good electronics not gimmicks. ;)
As someone who has there surround channels mounted high and felt the same before a going to a 7.1.4 setup from 5.1, its not even on the same level when it comes to the placement of objects bed channels are now just as they have been always bed channels! I'm not sure why you still feel that these 5.1 or 7.1 processor's from any manufacture and regardless of cost can even begin to match the placement of discrete objects is beyond me but hey! what ever floats your boat man! This is the new SOTA and my mediocre 8802 is a dream of a pre/pro (2/ch included) and has me scrambling for what to watch next in Atmos or DSU!

Gimmick for you? cool! For me its the best thing that's happened to home cinema experience in 20yrs:)
 

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Yesterday, I heard ATMOS for the first time at a high end audio/video dealer. It was a 5.2.4 system. I listened to both the ATMOS demo, which contained exerts of movies and music. I subsequently listened to a 5.1 setup with a high end processor. The executive summary is that Kal Rubinson's comment about music with ATMOS having an inappropriate ambiance was simply too kind. It was bazaar and outright gimmicky. Also, I was not impressed with the sound effects from the height channels as you can get a similar or equally satisfying effect with your rear channels elevated over the seating area in the rear. In addition, it was the quality of the signal from the high end system that trumped the signal from the height channels. The lesson I learned is that the sound one gets from a 5.1 or 7.1 system from a high end processor is a better purchase than a ATMOS sound from a mediocre processor. For me ATMOS is another gimmick for movie addicts and has no benefits for music. It is something I can live without. :( You can too. Invest in good electronics not gimmicks. ;)
Yeah, strictly movies here too. It's almost like you dropped in to stir the pot and cause arguments. Fact of the matter is that either you don't watch movies, the dealer you were at had a horrible setup (which I'd bet on from the sounds of it), or you don't know what you're talking about. Maybe a combo of all three likely. The fact that a dealer was running 5.2.4, a lesser system for sales purposes, infers something stinks there.

I can't argue with hi-fi music junkies not liking Atmos. I use to run extremely high-end systems for music only and laughed at 5.1 surround sound when it first came out. My staging was insanely great and costly and it abhorred me to think of additional speakers destroying that stage. I'm sure many people will not see the value of Atmos for music. I personally have thrown on music for testing and played with the DSU. I enjoyed choirs and strings being lifted and elevated in a well setup Atmos system. It's not overly processed and very subtilely uses the heights. Basically it sounds like 2.1 with much more depth and phenomenal elevation. But it's not for everyone.

To infer it's a gimmick for movies is demonstrative of poor setup and misunderstanding (or deafness) of the total immersion that's taking place. That's directly comparable to saying that 5.1 for movies is a gimmick and 2.1 is just fine.

We can agree to disagree on music with Atmos. But with movies....it's really ignorant and misinformed to say "gimmicky".
 

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Hey Ted and Rick,

Obviously we all have to live within our budgets. For many or most, 7.1.4 just isn't possible for various reasons. The catch-22 is what you eluded to. A lot of people are waiting to go to 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 after price drops. They constantly say they'll just wait 2 years until prices come down. The catch is that by the time things are affordable 1) you've wasted 2 years without being able to enjoy atmos/immersive and 2) by then 7.1.8, or whatever next iteration is, is already out. You will constantly be purchasing way behind current technologies with the best immersive experience.

We all wish we could have more and the best. But for me, I chose to live with lesser speakers and be able to support 7.2.4 now. I can slowly upgrade from low-cost drivers over the course of years and still have full Atmos immersive enjoyment right now.
Exactly. Since I have what I consider to be good enough speakers for my small mancave (used to have M-L electrostats for main, Paradigm for surrounds in my large HT), I've decided to go low on the minimal capability Receiver to get DSU on streaming 5.1 and upgrade when the source material is more available. To hell with waiting for the "best"!
 

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Not sure where to post this but need some input. I want to get the Denon 4200 but I have never seen or heard an Atmos display. My room is 12w x 15d and missing 2 walls in an open floor plan. The back of the sofa will be 5' from my imaginary back wall (actually there is no wall since it's adjacent to the foyer area). See pic



Will I miss anything significant from the rear speakers if I choose 3.1.4?

If the forum thinks 5.1.2 is a better idea, then I will have to fabricate some telescoping or folding speaker mounts for the right rear speaker to avoid collision when running out the front door.


Thanks
It's going to be tricky to implement an Atmos setup with two missing walls. Can you post some more photos and maybe a diagram so we can see what you're dealing with?
 

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I'm sure the next 2 years will bring 7.x.8 (where the front wides are effects speakers rather than bed speakers).
That is 9.1.6 not 7.1.8. Wides (front surround) are floor level speakers.
 

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Exactly. Since I have what I consider to be good enough speakers for my small mancave (used to have M-L electrostats for main, Paradigm for surrounds in my large HT), I've decided to go low on the minimal capability Receiver to get DSU on streaming 5.1 and upgrade when the source material is more available. To hell with waiting for the "best"!
The way I see it, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow. I might as well enjoy what I can today! So I agree with the 5.1.2 approach you took. Do something today vs waiting for the holy grail tomorrow.

It's always easy enough to just drop in a new AVR and use your existing speakers to move to something more. Literally only takes a few minutes to swap the cables and you're done. I always recommend buying and putting in/up your 4 tops now. You will want them to match. It stinks to pay hard earned money for 2 speakers you are not using, but it will reduce your cost in the future to move to 5.1.4 and also insures you can still get matching speakers. Most of us run .6 now for cabling and/or speakers so we can easily accomplish 7.1.6 simply when available. If you're pulling/fishing cable, do it all now.
 

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It's going to be tricky to implement an Atmos setup with two missing walls. Can you post some more photos and maybe a diagram so we can see what you're dealing with?
More photos will expose the ugliness of prepping for a new PJ and running/fishing cabling. But thanks for your response, I surmised that it would not be good. Just in general I was looking to see which would have priority.

Now thinking about installing an MLV sound curtain in place of the walls, just wish I knew what I was doing.
 

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Not sure where to post this but need some input. I want to get the Denon 4200 but I have never seen or heard an Atmos display. My room is 12w x 15d and missing 2 walls in an open floor plan. The back of the sofa will be 5' from my imaginary back wall (actually there is no wall since it's adjacent to the foyer area). See pic



Will I miss anything significant from the rear speakers if I choose 3.1.4?

If the forum thinks 5.1.2 is a better idea, then I will have to fabricate some telescoping or folding speaker mounts for the right rear speaker to avoid collision when running out the front door.:p

Thanks
Are you able to put your surround speakers on stands?
 

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Yesterday, I heard ATMOS for the first time at a high end audio/video dealer. It was a 5.2.4 system. I listened to both the ATMOS demo, which contained exerts of movies and music. I subsequently listened to a 5.1 setup with a high end processor. The executive summary is that Kal Rubinson's comment about music with ATMOS having an inappropriate ambiance was simply too kind. It was bazaar and outright gimmicky. Also, I was not impressed with the sound effects from the height channels as you can get a similar or equally satisfying effect with your rear channels elevated over the seating area in the rear. In addition, it was the quality of the signal from the high end system that trumped the signal from the height channels. The lesson I learned is that the sound one gets from a 5.1 or 7.1 system from a high end processor is a better purchase than a ATMOS sound from a mediocre processor. For me ATMOS is another gimmick for movie addicts and has no benefits for music. It is something I can live without. :( You can too. Invest in good electronics not gimmicks. ;)
Sounds like they had crappy mismatched height speakers that were of different timbre from the base level and perhaps the system was poorly calibrated so the customer "can hear the heights". Similar to video displays put in torch mode to gain attention. I've never heard any actual distinct sound from my height channels with music, and as has been mentioned, properly calibrated the heights only lift the soundstage. I have to get in a chair and put my ears to the height channels to even be sure anything is coming out of them. It's a very cool and subtle effect.

Now I'll give you that some content puts too much into the base level surrounds. But on the flip side, some songs have just the right amount of subtle content in the surrounds that makes the soundstage just wrap along the sides of the room a bit more.

For movies I agree that timbre matched surrounds and heights to the mains is not as important, but for music I think it makes a big difference. I think you heard a low end Atmos implementation at a high end store.
 

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Yesterday, I heard ATMOS for the first time at a high end audio/video dealer. It was a 5.2.4 system. I listened to both the ATMOS demo, which contained exerts of movies and music. I subsequently listened to a 5.1 setup with a high end processor. The executive summary is that Kal Rubinson's comment about music with ATMOS having an inappropriate ambiance was simply too kind. It was bazaar and outright gimmicky. Also, I was not impressed with the sound effects from the height channels as you can get a similar or equally satisfying effect with your rear channels elevated over the seating area in the rear. In addition, it was the quality of the signal from the high end system that trumped the signal from the height channels. The lesson I learned is that the sound one gets from a 5.1 or 7.1 system from a high end processor is a better purchase than a ATMOS sound from a mediocre processor. For me ATMOS is another gimmick for movie addicts and has no benefits for music. It is something I can live without. :( You can too. Invest in good electronics not gimmicks. ;)
It doesn't sound like you heard a well designed system. Dolby Atmos and DTS: X can sound superb for both movies and music with quality immersive mixing techniques.
 
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