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......For movies, I agree that timbre matched surrounds and heights to the mains is not as important, but for music I think it makes a big difference....
I concur ;)
 

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It's almost like you dropped in to stir the pot and cause arguments.

We can agree to disagree on music with Atmos. But with movies....it's really ignorant and misinformed to say "gimmicky".
Actually, I drove two (2) hours for this ATMOS demo to hear what the fuss was about. I am too mature to post here just to cause an argument. I am just posting my subjective findings. Do not allow my difference in opinion to be interpreted as trying to cause an argument. Lets keep our egos out of our opinions. ;)
 

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It doesn't sound like you heard a well designed system. Dolby Atmos and DTS: X can sound superb for both movies and music with quality immersive mixing techniques.
I thought about that, but later decided the setup was fine. What made it gimmicky to me was hearing a back ground vocal from the ceiling which I thought was weird. I heard the object based special effects from the ceiling, but I was not impressed. I was more impressed with the "quality" of sound I heard from the Classe processor more than the quantity of sound I heard from the ATMOS processor. This is just my opinion.
 

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I thought about that, but later decided the setup was fine. What made it gimmicky to me was hearing a back ground vocal from the ceiling which I thought was weird. I heard the object based special effects from the ceiling, but I was not impressed. I was more impressed with the "quality" of sound I heard from the Classe processor more than the quantity of sound I heard from the ATMOS processor. This is just my opinion.
I think you likely just confirmed what several of us have suggested. The system wasn't properly setup. When I hear anyone say sounds were coming "from the ceiling", that means they were set too hot and/or the timing and phase are out. Sounds coming directly from the ceiling are the tell-tell sign someone didn't know what they were doing. Only at rare instances will sound appear to come directly from the ceiling (helicopter fly over, etc). Even then, it normally sounds like a helicopter flew over at normal flight level, not "from the ceiling" IMO. 95% of the time, objects are elevated and sound like they are coming from "within the room". It's very common to hear movie soundtracks where the voices image right in front of my face or directly above my head, etc. This is most evident with bugs and wind. You will hear them flying throughout the room or wind blowing through the room. Set things up wrong and those effects sound like they are coming from the ceiling.

It's too bad you drove that far to hear a bad demo. I'd suggest you find someone on AVS in your area, who knows what they're doing, and go visit their HT. I'm 100% confident your opinion will change.
 

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Actually, I drove two (2) hours for this ATMOS demo to hear what the fuss was about. I am too mature to post here just to cause an argument. I am just posting my subjective findings. Do not allow my difference in opinion to be interpreted as trying to cause an argument. Lets keep our egos out of our opinions. ;)
Didn't read to me like you were doing anything but reporting your subjective impressions. Regardless of whether you ultimately decide you want anything to do with Atmos, from your comments I can say with confidence your demo was poorly setup. Do with that what you will.

Also, the difference between the Classe and the Atmos "high end" processor certainly had nothing to do with the processors, but the setup.

The difference between reasonably designed processors for multichannel sound reproduction is miniscule compared to setup and the speakers.
 

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Also, the difference between the Classe and the Atmos "high end" processor certainly had nothing to do with the processors, but the setup.

The difference between reasonably designed processors for multichannel sound reproduction is miniscule compared to setup and the speakers.
I have no doubt, that the Classe and an Atmos AVR or prepro are subjectively going to have different appeal to hifi music enthusiasts. I use to run Counterpoint and Levinson, so I've been there and I get it.

It's apples to oranges though. But it's also pennies to dollars in regards to price! If someone is running the same speakers in the same room with music only and Classe, they're going to like it more than the Japanese AV choices. Key differentiator in that statement being "V"----video. If I saw someone's "hifi" music listening room and they had an Onkyo AVR with multi-thousand $, top of line stereo speakers, I would probably chuckle inside. Likewise if I walked into a dedicated HT and they had a Classe preamp running only 2.1 for movies, I'd chuckle too. I really don't get how anyone could draw a comparison there.

What's interesting is that the comment is made without detail of WHAT the setup actually was. That's shady and suspect....D, M, Onk, Pioneer, Yamaha, Anthem? Speakers in ceiling or DAE? The rest of the system and the source? Lot of omissions there....
 

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Are you able to put your surround speakers on stands?
I could but don't trust my untrained dogs, I've seen their artwork too many times.

I can rig a ceiling mounted bracket, but I've gotta come up with something in the next month to contain the effects and don't really want walls that keep me from seeing what's playing from the foyer/kitchen/dining and family rooms.

Has anyone installed plexi-glass or acrylic walls? or can someone direct me to the right section? Thanks
 

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All great comments on Dolby Atmos challenges. Regarding audio playback - isn't there a way with the new Atmos AVR's to just play plain old stereo (2 channel) for legacy CD's and 5.1 for SACD's?

Or is Atmos DSU your only option?

I do believe that object based sountracks will provide the biggest bang for your buck, enjoyment wise.

Now - as whether to buy now or later - I understand both sides of the conversation. For me - I'd be happy with 7.1.4 right now if I could buy for around $1,200 or less. The Denon X5200W seems to fit the bill but I'm unsure as to the best connections on how to incorporate height channels. And I'mwondering about DTS:X and how this changes the game.

For me, Dolby Atmos/DTS:X is not a matter of if but when.
 

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I have no doubt, that the Classe and an Atmos AVR or prepro are subjectively going to have different appeal to hifi music enthusiasts. I use to run Counterpoint and Levinson, so I've been there and I get it.

It's apples to oranges though. But it's also pennies to dollars in regards to price! If someone is running the same speakers in the same room with music only and Classe, they're going to like it more than the Japanese AV choices. Key differentiator in that statement being "V"----video. If I saw someone's "hifi" music listening room and they had an Onkyo AVR with multi-thousand $, top of line stereo speakers, I would probably chuckle inside. Likewise if I walked into a dedicated HT and they had a Classe preamp running only 2.1 for movies, I'd chuckle too. I really don't get how anyone could draw a comparison there.

What's interesting is that the comment is made without detail of WHAT the setup actually was. That's shady and suspect....D, M, Onk, Pioneer, Yamaha, Anthem? Speakers in ceiling or DAE? The rest of the system and the source? Lot of omissions there....
I'd replace "subjective" with "sighted". I'm not convinced there would be any difference between prepros if blinded.
 

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For me ATMOS is another gimmick for movie addicts..........
I'm a movie addict. I made sure I looked up the definition of "gimmick" before I replied. To categorizes ATMOS as a gimmick I'm guessing two things. One, you may not have a complete understanding of the technology involved, and two, you have never experienced the technology implemented correctly. I will admit getting the most out of ATMOS in consumer HT's and showrooms can be difficult, but if you've heard it done correctly, I think you might change your opinion.

Also, speaking for my theater, the importance of the processor was below, speakers, amps, DSP, and WAY below the importance of the design and calibration of the room.
 

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All great comments on Dolby Atmos challenges. Regarding audio playback - isn't there a way with the new Atmos AVR's to just play plain old stereo (2 channel) for legacy CD's and 5.1 for SACD's?

Or is Atmos DSU your only option?

I do believe that object based sountracks will provide the biggest bang for your buck, enjoyment wise.

Now - as whether to buy now or later - I understand both sides of the conversation. For me - I'd be happy with 7.1.4 right now if I could buy for around $1,200 or less. The Denon X5200W seems to fit the bill but I'm unsure as to the best connections on how to incorporate height channels. And I'mwondering about DTS:X and how this changes the game.

For me, Dolby Atmos/DTS:X is not a matter of if but when.
You do not have to engage an upmixing feature at all. You can play stereo as stereo or 5.1 as 5.1 or 7.1 as 7.1. Dolby Surround and soon DTS Neural: X (and Audyssey's own upmixer) are optional expansion add-on's to a basic music or movie track.
 

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A question for you guys:

I am in the process to upgrading to an Atmos system. My theater room is pretty small in an upstairs loft. My sectional is against the rear wall therefore I cannot accommodate top rear speakers. I have some Tannoy CMS 501 DC speakers that I will install in the top main position.

I have Tannoy Di5dc front heights installed as high as I could up on the front wall. I sit about 9 feet away from them. My ceiling is 8 feet tall.

Will it be better to have front heights and top main running during Atmos or only the top mains. If I have the front heights, will sounds that are meant for the top main go to them instead? Obviously the top main will actually be in the ceiling so I would rather have height sounds go to them.

Also, in this scenario, would it be better to install the top mains at 90 degrees or a bit forward at 80 degrees?

Thanks!
 

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A question for you guys:

I am in the process to upgrading to an Atmos system. My theater room is pretty small in an upstairs loft. My sectional is against the rear wall therefore I cannot accommodate top rear speakers. I have some Tannoy CMS 501 DC speakers that I will install in the top main position.

I have Tannoy Di5dc front heights installed as high as I could up on the front wall. I sit about 9 feet away from them. My ceiling is 8 feet tall.

Will it be better to have front heights and top main running during Atmos or only the top mains. If I have the front heights, will sounds that are meant for the top main go to them instead? Obviously the top main will actually be in the ceiling so I would rather have height sounds go to them.

Also, in this scenario, would it be better to install the top mains at 90 degrees or a bit forward at 80 degrees?

Thanks!
I would go Front Height as high up towards the ceiling as possible and pretty much aimed at the seating, and Top Middle with the TM's just slightly in front of your seating location. Though, it's always best to try and get the seats away from the wall a few feet for better sound reproduction as a general rule.
 

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Thanks Dan! If this room wasn't so tiny I definitely would. We tend to have movie nights with several people over so we have a large sectional against the wall. The sides of the sectional stick out so there's really no way to move it forward without hitting the left and right speakers.

The front heights are already almost touching the ceiling but regretfully that puts them at a 28 degree angle from my ears not within the atmos spec. I will try it the way you say. Thanks again.
 

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FH at 28° should still work, you're not so far from the official 30° limit ;)
but with this FH in place and taking care of the top front, i would maybe setup the ceiling speakers either as TM (Top Middle) and slighly back (100°) or even better as TR (Top Rear) at 135° or close to it.
This is to ensure you get the best possible coverage up there :cool:
 

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I thought about that, but later decided the setup was fine. What made it gimmicky to me was hearing a back ground vocal from the ceiling which I thought was weird. I heard the object based special effects from the ceiling, but I was not impressed. I was more impressed with the "quality" of sound I heard from the Classe processor more than the quantity of sound I heard from the ATMOS processor. This is just my opinion.

Was the demo you're referring to the Bailando music video? It's the only music track I know of re-mixed for Atmos. If so, that's a fun mix but by no means an accurate reproduction of the song or a live performance of it. I wouldn't base your opinion of Atmos rendering on that particular track. And if it wasn't Bailando, what music track was it? I'd like to track it down.

I think you likely just confirmed what several of us have suggested. The system wasn't properly setup. When I hear anyone say sounds were coming "from the ceiling", that means they were set too hot and/or the timing and phase are out. Sounds coming directly from the ceiling are the tell-tell sign someone didn't know what they were doing. Only at rare instances will sound appear to come directly from the ceiling (helicopter fly over, etc). Even then, it normally sounds like a helicopter flew over at normal flight level, not "from the ceiling" IMO. 95% of the time, objects are elevated and sound like they are coming from "within the room". It's very common to hear movie soundtracks where the voices image right in front of my face or directly above my head, etc. This is most evident with bugs and wind. You will hear them flying throughout the room or wind blowing through the room. Set things up wrong and those effects sound like they are coming from the ceiling.



It's too bad you drove that far to hear a bad demo. I'd suggest you find someone on AVS in your area, who knows what they're doing, and go visit their HT. I'm 100% confident your opinion will change.

I'm not sure why you guys are coming down so hard on this guy... Do you know what he heard? There's only one Atmos music track I'm aware of, and that's the Bailando music video on the Dolby Demo Disc. As I said above, that track is a fun mix, but not a good one for assessing Atmos. Anyone wanting a good demo of Atmos on a music track is not going to come away pleased with Bailando, especially any kind of audiophile since that mix is whimsical and has no basis in reality. So it could very well be that the system was perfectly fine, but the demo track selected was horrible, leading to what sounds like an accurate assessment.
 

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Well, he never said it was Bailando he was referring to when talking about the music he listened to ... ;)
More likely, he listened to other music with Dolby Surround engaged.
The result in this context is a mixed bag, some people like it, some other do not ...

For pure stereo listening, the fact that a system has Atmos or not is irrelevant towards the quality of the result that is achieved, it is possible to have a poor or good setup from a non-atmos or an atmos setup, it is more about room acoustics and speaker quality....
 

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Would you agree a speaker rated down to 30hz can reproduce 80hz with far greater ease than a speaker rated down to only 80hz.
Which would you think would better handle frequencies below 80hz? My dual Seaton Submersives with 6,000 watts of amplification driving 4 x 15 inch drivers, or a tower speaker rated to 30Hz?
 

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No is disputing a 15" driver and a horn loaded tweeter and a 104 db sensitivity won't have greater dynamic ease than anything beneath it , that's pretty much a given. Eye's are rolled over the total disregard of crossover's having no effect on the transition of those lower frequencies to the speaker that will handle them, in this case, the ability of the sub to produce the slam comes into play along with the other speakers in question and when combined the effect can be called dynamic ease or headroom feel free to name your term. You selected your new setup to give the sound you where looking for and it seems you've achieved your goal and are happy but guess what! so have I and many other's with "typical Home theater or Audiophile speakers" :)

Enjoy;)
The whole basis of THX speakers and the invention of the subwoofer which led to the creation of THX is that speakers which are capable down to an 80Hz crossover (note, not down to 80Hz) when combined with a capable subwoofer, will reproduce the entire frequency range perfectly well and, usually, much better than a speaker which is rated to, say, 30Hz (note, rated) on its own or with a less capable subwoofer. Thus the notion that one needs speakers extending to significantly below 80hz, in a bass-managed system, is, IMO, misguided.
 

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You'd think. There is hope that they might make their most recent demo disc (the one with speaker test tracks) available to the public, but that's all it is: hope.
As I have said a few times, it is almost certainly an IP issue wrt to the commercial content on the demo disc. Of course, Dolby could possible publish a disc with just their own content on it (the trailers) but these are readily downloadable from the Internet, so what would be the point?
 
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