AVS Forum banner

37581 - 37600 of 58948 Posts

·
Bass Enabler
Joined
·
21,530 Posts
I see some people opt for a preamp type setup - is that better for future upgrades? Or just more $ than buying/replacing an av receiver
Depends. But unfortunately most of the time you're paying more for the pre/pro with no real extra features for it being a pre/pro. It's a smaller market so the prices are higher.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
299 Posts
Looks like for 5.1.4 with no external amps, I'm looking at:

Denon AVR-X6200W (2599 CAD)
Yamaha RX-A2050 (1999 CAD)

Any others to consider? Or is it worth it to go a bit lower and go the external amp router for the other 2ch?

Also if anyone has a 5.1.2 setup and wants to tell me I don't need .4 I'm all ears :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,355 Posts
Correct. Front Height/Top Middle, Front Height/Rear Height, Top Front/Top Rear are all configurations that are included in the four total overhead positions of today's consumer Dolby Atmos or DTS: X gear.

You want more? Get a Trinnov and prepare for a serious expenditure. :D
FWIW I have not seen Front Height/Top Middle supported in anything other than D+M gear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,559 Posts
And if McDonalds stopped serving French fries it would be pretty noteworthy.

If home 3D had been as popular and widespread as McD's french fries then that comparison would make sense.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
218 Posts
Looks like for 5.1.4 with no external amps, I'm looking at:

Denon AVR-X6200W (2599 CAD)
Yamaha RX-A2050 (1999 CAD)

Any others to consider? Or is it worth it to go a bit lower and go the external amp router for the other 2ch?

Also if anyone has a 5.1.2 setup and wants to tell me I don't need .4 I'm all ears :)
I have a 5.1.2 setup and can tell you that you will not be happy until you are able to get the other two speakers and make a 5.1.4 system. You can do the 5.1.2 with a Denon X2200, which is what I did, and that I am now saving for a X6200 and two channel amp as what I really want is a 7.1.4. Well, at least that is what I want this week. Every time I hear something better - I want it! While 5.1.2 sounds really good by providing overhead sound, 5.1.4 is a magnitude better as the overhead sound pans and moves over you. You need to hear it and you will want it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,154 Posts
As if the sound in Tron: Legacy wasn't already stellar, I went and watched it last night in DSU and had my mind blown. The first scene in the grid where the announcer calls out the combatants...her voice sounded almost omnipresent, but definitely came from above. The music and effects during the first combat scenes and later in the bar were revelatory. I have yet to find a movie that I've played in DSU that hasn't sounded significantly better than its legacy counterpart. This is just awesome!
 
  • Like
Reactions: stikle

·
Registered
Joined
·
299 Posts
I have a 5.1.2 setup and can tell you that you will not be happy until you are able to get the other two speakers and make a 5.1.4 system. You can do the 5.1.2 with a Denon X2200, which is what I did, and that I am now saving for a X6200 and two channel amp as what I really want is a 7.1.4. Well, at least that is what I want this week. Every time I hear something better - I want it! While 5.1.2 sounds really good by providing overhead sound, 5.1.4 is a magnitude better as the overhead sound pans and moves over you. You need to hear it and you will want it!

Thanks. I really appreciate the feedback!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
16,643 Posts
As if the sound in Tron: Legacy wasn't already stellar, I went and watched it last night in DSU and had my mind blown. The first scene in the grid where the announcer calls out the combatants...her voice sounded almost omnipresent, but definitely came from above. The music and effects during the first combat scenes and later in the bar were revelatory. I have yet to find a movie that I've played in DSU that hasn't sounded significantly better than its legacy counterpart. This is just awesome!
DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 original audio on the 3D Blu-ray - That must sound awesome too with DTS Neural:X up-mixer! :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
Looks like for 5.1.4 with no external amps, I'm looking at:

Denon AVR-X6200W (2599 CAD)
Yamaha RX-A2050 (1999 CAD)

Any others to consider? Or is it worth it to go a bit lower and go the external amp router for the other 2ch?

Also if anyone has a 5.1.2 setup and wants to tell me I don't need .4 I'm all ears :)
I recently purchased the Denon X6200W in Canada for about 2k cdn. I bought in last week of January so perhaps there was still deals to the distributers, but I had multiple places offering prices from the 2600 down to the 2100-2000 price. Eastporters, Even big box store Visions were willing to match or come close.

Buy it, and go with 5.1.4 then next upgrade itch buy a 2 ch amp and increase it to 7.1.4
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,015 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: jlb2782

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
The 7702MKII is 90% of the 8802a for 1K less. So, if money is no object, the 8802a. For an amp/s, check out pro amps. Sure, most are 2 channel, but pack way more power per dollar and class D amps are light weight. If space is an issue, Emotiva, Parasound, Marantz/Denon, Adcom are great amps.
Well, after looking into this a little more, I agree with you. The 7702 has built-in amplification like I'm used to (I've never put together a home theater using separates), and it has most, if not all, the functionality of the 8802. Although, I'll still need an amplifier if I want to use every channel on the 7702 since I think all but 2 are amplified. Let's say all 11.2 channels were utilized, if I'm setting up an Atmos system, where would the additional 2 speakers go, on the sides? My current receiver is old (relatively speaking), and it has 8.1 channels, FR, C, FL, SR, SL, RL, RR, and RC + my sub. I'm just curious how 11 channels can be utilized in at Atmos configuration. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get the KEF R Series Dolby Atmos enabled speakers, but I'm curious to know what kind of speakers I would use to fill in the 2 extra channels that the Marantz offers assuming I bought an amplifier to push the last 2 channels. Any ideas?

I'm trying to put together a list of everything I "need" for my new Atmos setup, and I've decided not to buy in wall nor in ceiling speakers again. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
I see some people opt for a preamp type setup - is that better for future upgrades? Or just more $ than buying/replacing an av receiver

I went into a Magnolia Store today, and boy was I disappointed. Most, if not all of the boutique home theater stores where I live are either out of business or only do business by appt, which means I couldn't go see and hear what anyone has. When I went into the Magnolia Store, I asked the guy if he had a Marantz 8802 setup so I could hear it. His response was no, he only had the 8802 as a special order, the 7702 has most of the functionality though. So we sat down, he tried pulling up some info on his PC regarding Atmos pre/pros and receivers, but his PC locked up. So, he showed me what was on his screen, which was the 7702.

He went on and on about it, but told me that it's better to buy separates, like the 8802 like I was asking about initially, because as new technology comes out, all I would have to do is swap out the pre/pro instead of everything. I laughed and said yes, it's much better to swap out a $4000 product than a $2500 product (I honestly don't remember the prices because I already knew them online). This guy sat down and told me it's cheaper to swap out a more expensive item for a cheaper item. I don't get it. It's hard to find someone local these days who has access to all the high end equipment unless you're in Dallas, LA, Chicago, NY, or Miami. I just want a new system, and I want some suggestions. I might have to find everything online now and hire some electricians or IT guys to run the cables.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,055 Posts
Well, after looking into this a little more, I agree with you. The 7702 has built-in amplification like I'm used to (I've never put together a home theater using separates), and it has most, if not all, the functionality of the 8802. Although, I'll still need an amplifier if I want to use every channel on the 7702 since I think all but 2 are amplified. Let's say all 11.2 channels were utilized, if I'm setting up an Atmos system, where would the additional 2 speakers go, on the sides? My current receiver is old (relatively speaking), and it has 8.1 channels, FR, C, FL, SR, SL, RL, RR, and RC + my sub. I'm just curious how 11 channels can be utilized in at Atmos configuration. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get the KEF R Series Dolby Atmos enabled speakers, but I'm curious to know what kind of speakers I would use to fill in the 2 extra channels that the Marantz offers assuming I bought an amplifier to push the last 2 channels. Any ideas?



I'm trying to put together a list of everything I "need" for my new Atmos setup, and I've decided not to buy in wall nor in ceiling speakers again. Thanks.

The AV7702 and AV7702MkII are both preamps, not receivers. Maybe you are thinking about the Denon 7200, which is a receiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Well, after looking into this a little more, I agree with you. The 7702 has built-in amplification like I'm used to (I've never put together a home theater using separates), and it has most, if not all, the functionality of the 8802. Although, I'll still need an amplifier if I want to use every channel on the 7702 since I think all but 2 are amplified. Let's say all 11.2 channels were utilized, if I'm setting up an Atmos system, where would the additional 2 speakers go, on the sides? My current receiver is old (relatively speaking), and it has 8.1 channels, FR, C, FL, SR, SL, RL, RR, and RC + my sub. I'm just curious how 11 channels can be utilized in at Atmos configuration. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get the KEF R Series Dolby Atmos enabled speakers, but I'm curious to know what kind of speakers I would use to fill in the 2 extra channels that the Marantz offers assuming I bought an amplifier to push the last 2 channels. Any ideas?

I'm trying to put together a list of everything I "need" for my new Atmos setup, and I've decided not to buy in wall nor in ceiling speakers again. Thanks.
There are several Dolby Atmos speaker setup guides all over the internet now.
Here is a link to the page at Dolby

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/index.html

The most common 11 channel setup (7.1.4) uses the 3 across the front, Left, Center, and Right. Then left and right side surrounds and left and right back surround, just as you would have in a normal 7.1 system. The .1 is the usual sub woofer. Many of the pre pros are setup to feed 2 sub woofers so you may see a .2 in the middle on some ads and information sheets. The final .4 is height speakers. There are 5 possible places to put a pair and you can choose several combinations depending on your AVR. Most agree that the "Top Front" and "Top Rear" pairs give the best overall sound field and the placement is pretty flexible for that setup. They also allow for "Front Height" and "Rear Height" which would be on the front and back walls, above the 7.1 speakers in those locations. Top middle is a pair in the middle of the room, or above the listening area, but this is usually used with just a 2 speaker overhead setup. Some AVR's will only allow it as a single pair above, whole other will allow it with Front or Rear Height as the second pair.

The other option that you mentioned is the Dolby Atmos Enabled speakers. If you have a flat reflective ceiling between 7 and 14 feet high, these can work very well. The sound is a little different from having a speaker actually above you as it is a bit more diffused, but with a lower ceiling, that can actually help make it sound more Immersive" and less of a point of sound over your shoulder. There are 3 possible places to use DAE up firing speakers. They should always be placed on top of an ear level speaker in your 5.1 or 7.1 ring of speakers. They can sit on top of the Front speakers, side speakers, or rear speakers, and you can use 1 or 2 pairs of these as well.

You can also mix it up and use one pair of DAE up firing and one pair of Height or Top speakers.

As you can see, even with what looks like rigid rules for speaker placement, it is actually very flexible. Even if the speakers fall a bit out of the ideal angle ranges, the sound will still be great. The closer you can hold to the ideal angle, the more accurately it will follow the pans as they were intended by the people who created the mix. If your top speakers are a bit too far forward, it will just shift the image a little bit, it is not the end of the world.

The Dolby Atmos track and the rendering code can support up to 34 full range speakers around the room. The number of sub woofer does not really come into play as far as Atmos is concerned, that is a function of how the AVR maker chooses to handle it. The current mainstream DSP chips in home AVR's are what is holding the limit at 11 full range speakers now. The very high end systems from Trinnov and a few others are using much more processing power to be able to use as many as 32 output channels. In the next year or so, it is very likely the costs will come to the point that mainstream AVR's will be able to do 13, 15, or 17 outputs, but only time will tell. In my opinion, it will depend on the market. There has to be at least an apparent demand for more outputs before companies will spend the money to design these new AVR's.

As for the Dolby Atmos track on the Blu Ray disk, it codes the moving sounds as a position in space. The DSP in the AVR calculates what speaker(s) it has to feed it to and at what levels to make the sound appear to be where it was intended. More speaker outputs will give it more points to choose from and pan between. with a 5.1.2 it will still try to place the sound in the right place and no sounds will be lost.

Does that help?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,640 Posts
I went into a Magnolia Store today, and boy was I disappointed. Most, if not all of the boutique home theater stores where I live are either out of business or only do business by appt, which means I couldn't go see and hear what anyone has. When I went into the Magnolia Store, I asked the guy if he had a Marantz 8802 setup so I could hear it. His response was no, he only had the 8802 as a special order, the 7702 has most of the functionality though. So we sat down, he tried pulling up some info on his PC regarding Atmos pre/pros and receivers, but his PC locked up. So, he showed me what was on his screen, which was the 7702.

He went on and on about it, but told me that it's better to buy separates, like the 8802 like I was asking about initially, because as new technology comes out, all I would have to do is swap out the pre/pro instead of everything. I laughed and said yes, it's much better to swap out a $4000 product than a $2500 product (I honestly don't remember the prices because I already knew them online). This guy sat down and told me it's cheaper to swap out a more expensive item for a cheaper item. I don't get it. It's hard to find someone local these days who has access to all the high end equipment unless you're in Dallas, LA, Chicago, NY, or Miami. I just want a new system, and I want some suggestions. I might have to find everything online now and hire some electricians or IT guys to run the cables.
There are folks in this industry who are ill informed. I had an occasion yesterday to be on the phone with an engineer from a very well known high-end audio company. Lacking knowledge was bad enough, but totally inaccurate is much worse and can lead the person looking for information in the wrong direction. This guy had no concept of the basics of room acoustics but pretended like he did. Very scary!!

And by the way, the 7702 does not have amps built in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
550 Posts
As already mentioned, the 7702 has no amps.
Marantz also does the 7010, which is essentially a 7702 with 9 amps for the same price, it might be a good deal if you have a smaller room (the internal amps are not powerful enough for a bigger room).

You can also add a 2 channel amp to the 7010 and build a hybrid 11 channel Atmos system for 7.2.4 or 9.2.2,
Or you can even power more channels with an added amp and use the 7010 amps on secondary channels only, this is what i did for example, powering the 7 lower channels externally, and use the 7009 (previous model to 7010) to power only the 4 upper channels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,081 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,643 Posts
Thanks... those are 2 way speakers, vs the yamahas i linked which were 3 way.. is there a difference? Is there a certain kind that i should be looking for when it comes to atmos.. i'm assuming since you mentioned these Micca's, they must fit the bill (they at least have a bigger woofer and tweeter than the yamaha's).

These micas are nice depth too.. 3.6 vs 5" Do i need to do any kind of vibration suppression (or box?) on the backs of these types of speakers, i think i read something about that, not sure if its really needed? (someone mentioned a simple planter box and some bungie chords on the backside for cheap solutions, i've never done this type of install before, ceiling based)
I wouldn't worry about a 2 way vs 3 way. The Micca would work fine. A backer box is not required if ceiling mount. Member rontalley has a drop ceiling and didn't use a box and said they sound great. What I do recommend is putting weather stripping on the speaker housing lip to get a good seal between the speaker and ceiling.
 
37581 - 37600 of 58948 Posts
Top